Topps out---Fanatics in

[cj828282]

Originally Posted by Seitas

It seems like a major component to fanatics business plan is to go straight to consumers. Something Topps could’ve and probably should’ve done years ago. I know the argument is that you need distributors to buy and sell all of the less desirable product…how about DONT produce the junk that doesn’t sell?
I think when we look back at this years down the road we will see that Topps failed to adjust to the evolving market and worked an antiquated business model into the ground.

But does not the MLB require Topps to produce a certain number of products every year? Maybe that was all fiction that I heard. But it would be very difficult to make every product a winner.

[Seitas]

[QUOTE=cj828282;17747019]But does not the MLB require Topps to produce a certain number of products every year? Maybe that was all fiction that I heard. But it would be very difficult to make every product a winner.[/QUOTE

I’ve heard that too. Either way there are too many junk products that devalue the overall brand. They could’ve done better on a lot of fronts. Especially product development and distribution.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by AwesomeBrian

Odd timing as they just cancelled some releases and pushed back others. Hockey (unfortunately) already on the hobby backburner, didn't need to be pushed totally off the stove but it's pretty darn close

The hockey market may now be smaller than the soccer market.

Hockey has the problem of not having many young stars right now.

McDavid & Mathews have been great in the regular season but accomplished very little in the playoffs, and Eichel hasn't even made the playoffs.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Seitas

It seems like a major component to fanatics business plan is to go straight to consumers. Something Topps could’ve and probably should’ve done years ago. I know the argument is that you need distributors to buy and sell all of the less desirable product…how about DONT produce the junk that doesn’t sell?
I think when we look back at this years down the road we will see that Topps failed to adjust to the evolving market and worked an antiquated business model into the ground.

Topps has been extremely focused on selling direct to consumers the last few years.

What do you think Topps Now, Montgomery Club, Topps Living, Throwback Thursdays, Project 2020, and Project 70 have all been?

[NHRonin]

Originally Posted by mfw13

The hockey market may now be smaller than the soccer market.

Hockey has the problem of not having many young stars right now.

McDavid & Mathews have been great in the regular season but accomplished very little in the playoffs, and Eichel hasn't even made the playoffs.

You think those are the only young stars?

[tier1dc]

Originally Posted by mfw13

The hockey market may now be smaller than the soccer market.

Hockey has the problem of not having many young stars right now.

McDavid & Mathews have been great in the regular season but accomplished very little in the playoffs, and Eichel hasn't even made the playoffs.

Originally Posted by NHRonin

You think those are the only young stars?

do you know who you're talking to right now? he's the official gatekeeper for all soccer products. seems he's horning in on hockey now too!

Originally Posted by mfw13

Because I'm sure you know so much more about the soccer card market than people like YayNJ and myself who have been collecting soccer cards for 30 years.....

I don't pretend to be the "official soccer collector" (that's your wording, not mine)....but I am more knowledgeable about the soccer card market than probably 95% of the people posting on this thread.

Is there anything you aren't in the 95th percentile for mfw13?

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by NHRonin

You think those are the only young stars?

They're the ones non-hockey fans might have heard of.....

All the other major sports have probably 10-15 big names that are well-known....

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by tier1dc

Is there anything you aren't in the 95th percentile for mfw13?

I'm clueless about Alt-coins, NFT's and meme stocks....

Don't know a lot about Project 2020 or Project 70....

Couldn't care less about auto racing, professional wrestling, MMA, etc. and know almost nothing about them.

But I am a pretty knowledgeable team sports fan who has been collecting sports cards for 43 years.....

[Seitas]

Originally Posted by mfw13

Topps has been extremely focused on selling direct to consumers the last few years.

What do you think Topps Now, Montgomery Club, Topps Living, Throwback Thursdays, Project 2020, and Project 70 have all been?

Try buying a box of cards from their website. Something that isn’t A&G.

The on demand stuff is a step in the right direction but I want boxes. Feels like they all go to distributors and breakers.

I used to buy thousands of dollars of wax each year from retail (mostly target) and Topps.com. I gave up a few years ago because it became too difficult. I moved onto buying singles and vintage. I get what I want but I miss being able to buy wax for a reasonable price and open packs with my son.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by Seitas

Try buying a box of cards from their website. Something that isn’t A&G.

The on demand stuff is a step in the right direction but I want boxes. Feels like they all go to distributors and breakers.

I used to buy thousands of dollars of wax each year from retail (mostly target) and Topps.com. I gave up a few years ago because it became too difficult. I moved onto buying singles and vintage. I get what I want but I miss being able to buy wax for a reasonable price and open packs with my son.

I agree with you 1000% that Topps SHOULD be selling product direct-to-consumers at wholesale/dealer prices + 20/25%.

I miss being able to buy wax at reasonable prices just like you do.....

[cj828282]

Topps did sell 2016 Topps Finest direct to consumers. Not sure the reasoning but I don't think many liked Topps doing that and in fact there may have been some that boycotted the product. But I thought it was a good idea to test market.

[Seitas]

Originally Posted by mfw13

I agree with you 1000% that Topps SHOULD be selling product direct-to-consumers at wholesale/dealer prices + 20/25%.

I miss being able to buy wax at reasonable prices just like you do.....

It just feels like they could have made a few changes, paid closer attention to buying habits and ultimately made access to their products easier. Instead we talk about limits at target and Walmart, bots and a nearly impossible online experience for the more sought after releases (sapphire in particular).

I don’t know if it will be any better under fanatics. And I will miss Topps.

[baseballbunez]

Originally Posted by mfw13

I agree with you 1000% that Topps SHOULD be selling product direct-to-consumers at wholesale/dealer prices + 20/25%.

I miss being able to buy wax at reasonable prices just like you do.....

Even if say they sold direct to consumer at double wholesale, which is essentially what they do now, the bots will eat up all of the actual good stock and leave the less demand products. So end buyers still pay the same price on good stuff and Topps gets stuck with the lower demand products.

[Bcr]

Originally Posted by AnthonyT

I forget where I read it, but it does not sound like that scenario will happen. Fanatics wants to start with their own card and design, and have direct to consumer offerings. Basically controlling the product. That could be wrong or change by the time it actually happens, no one with any official capacity has made any comments.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/30/expl...valuation.html

From the article:

Fanatics isn’t expected to start its trading card business from scratch and will likely seek to buy an existing company in the space like Upper Deck.

Asked about this on Thursday, Rubin responded: “It’s possible that we’ll buy one of the trading card companies because they are good companies.”

[jeff152380]

Ive been saying all along Upper Deck makes the most sense for them to buy...

[MoreToppsPlease]

Originally Posted by cj828282

Topps did sell 2016 Topps Finest direct to consumers. Not sure the reasoning but I don't think many liked Topps doing that and in fact there may have been some that boycotted the product. But I thought it was a good idea to test market.

It was 100% because the demand for the product was so low they had to try to sell it online.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by mfw13

The hockey market may now be smaller than the soccer market.

Hockey has the problem of not having many young stars right now.

McDavid & Mathews have been great in the regular season but accomplished very little in the playoffs, and Eichel hasn't even made the playoffs.

Soccer is easily #4 now

[ewokpelts]

Originally Posted by cj828282

But does not the MLB require Topps to produce a certain number of products every year? Maybe that was all fiction that I heard. But it would be very difficult to make every product a winner.

Topps and UD USED to have a 20 product limit in 06-09, as part of the then-licensing deal. When Topps went exclusive, they can pretty much make what they want. Especially when they were paying $20 million to the PA and even more to the league.

[ewokpelts]

Originally Posted by Seitas

It seems like a major component to fanatics business plan is to go straight to consumers. Something Topps could’ve and probably should’ve done years ago. I know the argument is that you need distributors to buy and sell all of the less desirable product…how about DONT produce the junk that doesn’t sell?
I think when we look back at this years down the road we will see that Topps failed to adjust to the evolving market and worked an antiquated business model into the ground.

You can make the argument that Topps has done the opposite. And that they have been trying to please all sectors of the new card market. Especially as they went to one major US sport license.

They service the direct market. They work closely with not only traditional retail, but the big boxes like Walmart and target. They sell products catered to the breaker/ big hit crowd. And they sell plenty of direct to consumer products.

A product like series one baseball NEEDS to be everywhere. Not just a direct to consumer platform.

[nsdikin]

Originally Posted by txrngr34

I like it.

But I also think the NHL and union are basically telling UD to up their game if they want to keep it going.

In five years the NHL will have a good idea of whether or not Fanatics is able to take up the mantle of Topps and Panini.

I view it similar to a player's one-year prove-it deal, except due to when Fanatics takes over, it's five years.

At the end of five years, it'd be easy for the NHL to jump onto the Fanatics Death Star.

So, this got my wheels spinning a bit and I started dreaming about a world where I could get Upper Deck baseball cards again.

Maybe this doesn't get to 5 years and instead, UD is given an offer they cannot refuse by Fanatics and they are bought out in 2024? UD has a card history with MLB, NBA, NFL, and NHL, right? And, I would suppose that most collectors in the last 30ish years remember the UD sets from all four of the sports and would accept UD as the brand Fanatics would use for their cards in the future (rather than some unproven newborn "Fanatics" branded product/s). And additional narrative is the ease for the Upper Deck name to be used across the four sports. Think about it...each of these sports play live games in a stadium...with an "Upper Deck".

Seems to be an easy play to keep the old regime of collectors like myself interested in Fanatics' empire in the future. Buy UD and bring back their brand as your cards across all four sports.

[txrngr34]

Originally Posted by nsdikin

So, this got my wheels spinning a bit and I started dreaming about a world where I could get Upper Deck baseball cards again.



Maybe this doesn't get to 5 years and instead, UD is given an offer they cannot refuse by Fanatics and they are bought out in 2024? UD has a card history with MLB, NBA, NFL, and NHL, right? And, I would suppose that most collectors in the last 30ish years remember the UD sets from all four of the sports and would accept UD as the brand Fanatics would use for their cards in the future (rather than some unproven newborn "Fanatics" branded product/s). And additional narrative is the ease for the Upper Deck name to be used across the four sports. Think about it...each of these sports play live games in a stadium...with an "Upper Deck".



Seems to be an easy play to keep the old regime of collectors like myself interested in Fanatics' empire in the future. Buy UD and bring back their brand as your cards across all four sports.

Many have speculated about Fanatics buying someone out...I guess I just assumed Topps.

I like your idea better!

Although, I can't see them using the UD name for long, if at all.

[JRX]

I really don't get why people think fanatics is going to just copy someone else's brand. If anything, its wishful thinking on your part. They didn't spend this much just to make topps or ud cards.

[txrngr34]

Originally Posted by mfw13

The hockey market may now be smaller than the soccer market.



Hockey has the problem of not having many young stars right now.



McDavid & Mathews have been great in the regular season but accomplished very little in the playoffs, and Eichel hasn't even made the playoffs.

Hockey's problem isn't young stars - there are plenty. And more importantly for the collecting side of hockey, there's at least a couple that pop up each year, even though some don't sustain beyond a year or two.

Hockey has the same problem it always had - geographical challenges of exposure, or more specifically a lack of people - mostly kids, of course - that can readily play it.

That exposure is growing, sure, but it's a mostly organic exposure that's a slow simmer than a fast boil.

And while anyone can readily play street hockey - which I still enjoy as a Southerner - it's nowhere near as exciting as ice hockey's speed, agility, and dexterity. Street hockey is essentially lacrosse.

Why is soccer the world's sport? Because anyone can find a ball and another person and kick it.

[txrngr34]

Originally Posted by JRX

I really don't get why people think fanatics is going to just copy someone else's brand. If anything, its wishful thinking on your part. They didn't spend this much just to make topps or ud cards.

That's not the point - for me.

I want Fanatics to make good products that are affordable and accessible for me to buy - you know, cards pre-2018.

UD largely represents that still today.

[ThoseBackPages]

Topps lost WWE to Panini

another reason to sell out to Fanatics