2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[tpeichel34]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

Nobody “falls for it”. They seek it out. They have a predetermined belief and search out confirmation. Their beliefs lead them to the media outlet that fits them the best.

Fair point.

[jdandns]

Originally Posted by rman112

Is there something inaccurate I've said about the media?

The near-omnipotent power inaccurately assigned to the news media by many of the contributors to this thread borders on the absurd, you know, like someone trying to buy Greenland.

[calculusdork]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

Nobody “falls for it”. They seek it out. They have a predetermined belief and search out confirmation. Their beliefs lead them to the media outlet that fits them the best.

It's not just one-way though. What's shaping those predetermined beliefs? How are they 'predetermined'?

I agree with you, but those beliefs come from and are shaped by something.

[tpeichel34]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

Reporter: "Mr. President, are you putting what you’re calling the alt-left and white supremacists on the same moral plane?"

Trump: "I’m not putting anybody on a moral plane. What I’m saying is this: You had a group on one side and you had a group on the other, and they came at each other with clubs -- and it was vicious and it was horrible. And it was a horrible thing to watch.

"But there is another side. There was a group on this side. You can call them the left -- you just called them the left -- that came violently attacking the other group. So you can say what you want, but that’s the way it is.

Reporter: (Inaudible) "… both sides, sir. You said there was hatred, there was violence on both sides. Are the --"

Trump: "Yes, I think there’s blame on both sides. If you look at both sides -- I think there’s blame on both sides. And I have no doubt about it, and you don’t have any doubt about it either. And if you reported it accurately, you would say."

Reporter: "The neo-Nazis started this. They showed up in Charlottesville to protest --"

Trump: "Excuse me, excuse me. They didn’t put themselves -- and you had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. You had people in that group. Excuse me, excuse me. I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name."

The context is that there were violent bad actors on both sides.

The "fine people" were those there to "protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by jdandns

The near-omnipotent power inaccurately assigned to the news media by many of the contributors to this thread borders on the absurd, you know, like someone trying to buy Greenland.

Downplaying our country's political media influence to essentially nothing .. While continually going on about Russia, and their attempts to influence our political structure .. As something extremely serious.. Is definitely something.

[tpeichel34]

Originally Posted by jdandns

The near-omnipotent power inaccurately assigned to the news media by many of the contributors to this thread borders on the absurd, you know, like someone trying to buy Greenland.

Advertising works because it manipulates emotions to influence buying decisions. Media has the same power. It has proven to be effective over and over again. Ask Goebbels. Why do you think hundreds of billions are spent on campaign advertising? It is extremely effective. There are still people arguing on here that Trump said neo-nazis were "fine people" and you want to say that the media isn't extremely influential?

[rman112]

Originally Posted by calculusdork

It's not just one-way though. What's shaping those predetermined beliefs? How are they 'predetermined'?

I agree with you, but those beliefs come from and are shaped by something.

Ding ding ding.

The amount of people that can truly think for themselves is low. The amount of people that can think for themselves while being subjected to other ideas (in this case, the news) is even lower.

[pingbling23]

imagine how good the next 4 years is going to be with President Trump leading. way less pot stirring by media and politicians trying to derail a reelection. President Trump will be able to get even more done for our country. this country was prospering like we havent seen in a long time before the pandemic hit. jobs everywhere, construction everywhere, economy booming, high markets, etc. the liberal extremists and media have tried to sabotage this country, all in the name of politics and control. its disgusting.

[Jgil316]

Originally Posted by tpeichel34

The context is that there were violent bad actors on both sides.

The "fine people" were those there to "protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

Spin spin spin

Trump says something stupid - and he and his attack dogs jump and say "what I/he meant to say was......." and this happens - 24 hours+ after said dumb/stupid statements.

Just stop already - it is getting old - how about he stops talking so no one has to jump and defend his racist words

[rman112]

Originally Posted by calculusdork

It's not just one-way though. What's shaping those predetermined beliefs? How are they 'predetermined'?

I agree with you, but those beliefs come from and are shaped by something.

Originally Posted by rman112

Ding ding ding.

The amount of people that can truly think for themselves is low. The amount of people that can think for themselves while being subjected to other ideas (in this case, the news) is even lower.

And even moreso.. There are plenty of people that go into the voting process really without any opinion at all. They don't have a side. They let themselves be influenced one way or the other.

[jdandns]

Originally Posted by tpeichel34

The context is that there were violent bad actors on both sides.

The "fine people" were those there to "protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name.

umm-hmm, and which fine side was the murderer of Heather Heyer from?

Here, let me help you with that.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-c...iolent-n945186

[rman112]

Originally Posted by tpeichel34

Advertising works because it manipulates emotions to influence buying decisions. Media has the same power. It has proven to be effective over and over again. Ask Goebbels. Why do you think hundreds of billions are spent on campaign advertising? It is extremely effective. There are still people arguing on here that Trump said neo-nazis were "fine people" and you want to say that the media isn't extremely influential?

Seriously. The money put into commercials that last 30 seconds or a minute is insane. And advertisers wouldn't continue to spend that type of money if it didn't prove effective.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by pingbling23

imagine how good the next 4 years is going to be with President Trump leading. way less pot stirring by media and politicians trying to derail a reelection. President Trump will be able to get even more done for our country. this country was prospering like we havent seen in a long time before the pandemic hit. jobs everywhere, construction everywhere, economy booming, high markets, etc. the liberal extremists and media have tried to sabotage this country, all in the name of politics and control. its disgusting.

If he wins, it'd be wishful thinking that the Democrats wouldn't still continue to spend the next 4 years trying to remove him.

[pingbling23]

Originally Posted by rman112

If he wins, it'd be wishful thinking that the Democrats wouldn't still continue to spend the next 4 years trying to remove him.

just trying to think positive and have hope.

[Jgil316]

The administrations response to the pandemic has been horrific - no leadership, no coherent message.

Conservatives were screaming for experts/scientists to lead and vilifying Obama during the horrific (according to Fox) out break of Ebola!!!!

How did that turn out?

[pac213up]

Originally Posted by rman112

If the media simply reacted to Trump, it'd be different. But that hasn't been, or currently is, the case.

You (the media) don't get to throw haymaker after haymaker, true or not, and then say "Oh, don't act like a victim" when called out on it.

In an ideal world I agree but "media" has changed from a fact based approach to an opinion slanted version of the truth. It's terrible but it is what it is. So you either play along or get left behind. Conservatives are being left behind and as someone who prefers balance as opposed to extremes, I feel it's unfortunate.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by calculusdork

It's not just one-way though. What's shaping those predetermined beliefs? How are they 'predetermined'?

I agree with you, but those beliefs come from and are shaped by something.

I think it’s probably driven by what suits your personality, which is more fully developed before your political beliefs. I have nothing to back it up. it’s less ridiculous than saying they became conservative/liberal because one day they just happened to start watching Fox News / MSNBC. I think people give the media too much credit in that regard.

[jdandns]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

Spin spin spin

Trump says something stupid - and he and his attack dogs jump and say "what I/he meant to say was......." and this happens - 24 hours+ after said dumb/stupid statements.

Just stop already - it is getting old - how about he stops talking so no one has to jump and defend his racist words

Trump Flow Chart:

Trump didn't even say that.
But if he did, he didn't mean that.
But if he meant it, you didn't understand it.
But if you understood it, it's not a big deal.
But if it is a big deal, others have said worse.
And if they haven't, media media media!

[tpeichel34]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

Spin spin spin

Trump says something stupid - and he and his attack dogs jump and say "what I/he meant to say was......." and this happens - 24 hours+ after said dumb/stupid statements.

Just stop already - it is getting old - how about he stops talking so no one has to jump and defend his racist words

Spin or reading comprehension? There were the bad actors and the protestors. How do you get that he was calling the "bad actors" fine people? How does that even make sense? The fine people were clearly the protestors and counter-protestors, not the violent actors.

[calculusdork]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

I think it’s probably driven by what suits your personality, which is more fully developed before your political beliefs. I have nothing to back it up. it’s less ridiculous than saying they became conservative/liberal because one day they just happened to start watching Fox News / MSNBC. I think people give the media too much credit in that regard.

I think in our day and age, it's almost 100% developed in public universities. Public universities and the majority of the media derive their opinions from the same sources. Universities tell students how to think, and thus biases are developed. The media then reinforces these biases.

I used to wonder why we heard so much rhetoric that "college education is a God-given right" in the last 15-20 years. Now I know. You have millions of "college-educated" men and women who can't get jobs in their fields of study. But boy, they sure know what to think.

[Jgil316]

Originally Posted by tpeichel34

Spin or reading comprehension? There were the bad actors and the protestors. How do you get that he was calling the "bad actors" fine people? How does that even make sense? The fine people were clearly the protestors and counter-protestors, not the violent actors.

The POTUS made a broad "paint stroke" statement with ZERO clarification at the time of the statement!

It's easy to go back AFTER the fact and try and clean up a mess bu Trump - but that is the status quo for him and his team.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by calculusdork

I think in our day and age, it's almost 100% developed in public universities. Public universities and the majority of the media derive their opinions from the same sources. Universities tell students how to think, and thus biases are developed. The media then reinforces these biases.

I used to wonder why we heard so much rhetoric that "college education is a God-given right" in the last 15-20 years. Now I know. You have millions of "college-educated" men and women who can't get jobs in their fields of study. But boy, they sure know what to think.

That doesn't explain the younger kids, though. The amount of high schoolers, for example, with such STRONG opinions about the protests.. Where does that come from?

[tpeichel34]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

The POTUS made a broad "paint stroke" statement with ZERO clarification at the time of the statement!

It's easy to go back AFTER the fact and try and clean up a mess bu Trump - but that is the status quo for him and his team.

The statement stands by itself. The media used the clip they wanted and spun it as the Prseident saying neo-nazis were fine people. Most people didn't bother to read the context. Others tried to point out the context to clarify that the President was calling the protestors and counter-protestors "fine people", but almost no one in the media corrected. In fact, they kept claiming that Trump said neo-nazis were fine people.

How is it the President's fault that the media falsely reported the meaning of the text? How is it the President's fault that some in the media CONTINUE to falsely report the meaning of the text?

[babyfaceposey]

Originally Posted by rman112

That wasn't the question.

And 'catching flack' from the media is certainly one way of putting it. Gently.

Its more like straight out lies the media has told.

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

The POTUS made a broad "paint stroke" statement with ZERO clarification at the time of the statement!

It's easy to go back AFTER the fact and try and clean up a mess bu Trump - but that is the status quo for him and his team.

Bull. You guys are still chopping his quote to make him look bad.


"You had some very bad people in that group, but you also had people that were very fine people, on both sides. ... I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park from Robert E. Lee to another name. ... So you know what, it's fine. You're changing history. You're changing culture. And you had people — and I'm not talking about the neo-Nazis and the White nationalists, because they should be condemned totally — but you had many people in that group other than neo-Nazis and White nationalists. Okay? And the press has treated them absolutely unfairly. Now, in the other group also, you had some fine people. But you also had troublemakers, and you see them come with the black outfits and with the helmets and with the baseball bats. You had a lot of bad people in the other group."