2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

Sorry. I should have left it at statistically insignificant and not said per encounter. But yes he’s be alive if he was white and yes this whole thing is over a very small number of encounters that go wrong.

Did you ever find that control group that proved schools should open up like its 2019?

I'm not sure what you mean about the schools; I sent over 32 countries that have schools running and links that show there is virtually no risk.

With regard to your statement, you cannot make the assumption that George Floyd would be alive today if he were white. More unarmed whites are killed by cops every year than blacks; we've never had a year since WaPo started tracking it where that wasn't the case. You're making a poor assumption at best, and I don't know why.

Also to say this is about a small amount of encounters that go wrong; the issue isn't that they go wrong. The issue largely is that the officers responsible go wrong. Unarmed men/women should not be met with deadly force by the police, plain and simple. It makes no difference what your stance is on racial this or that. The overwhelming majority of police officers are awesome at what they do. Some are not, and those some should face consequences but do not because of ridiculous union policies in largely democratic cities.

Perfection is not the goal. I don't believe in outcomes, I believe in systems. When you fix the system that allows the police office that murdered George Floyd, then you will inevitably save lives down the road. Not all of them, but some of them. That is progress.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by mike1498

So chanting BLM is your solution? Regardless of your feelings, statistics say otherwise.

Anyways, The reason MLK was more successful than BLM was because he tried to bring people together. I think the most beautiful part of his I Have a Dream speech is where he says "I have a dream that one day little black boys and girls will hold hands with little white boys and girls". Where is BLM in that? He knew inclusion is how you make allies even when they are wrong.

Look, you've seen me condemn Trumps rhetoric, it's time to condemn your parties rhetoric.

I'm still holding out hope that we can fulfill Dr. King's dream. Don't yall get a certain feeling when you see the images and videos of white cops and black protesters sharing a moment? Or the image of the black dude carrying a white counter protester to safety? This can be us. But we need to stop demanding the impossible.

There are 300+ million people in America. Stop trying to get rid of every single racist person, and for F's sake stop inventing more racism. We've diluted the term so much that it hardly means anything anymore. There are people who hate gays, hate men, hate women, hate Asians, hate themselves, hate cats, whatever else. Ignore them. Most of them are harmless and just find comfort in being miserable. Police are going to kill people on accident. Those numbers continue to go down, but if we are waiting for them to hit zero, then let's stop even trying, because it's impossible. Cops are human. It's not a perfect system. Run the bad ones through the judicial system. And while we're at it, maybe we can make it easier on cops by committing a little less crime. Anyone up for committing less crime?

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

I'm still holding out hope that we can fulfill Dr. King's dream. Don't yall get a certain feeling when you see the images and videos of white cops and black protesters sharing a moment? Or the image of the black dude carrying a white counter protester to safety? This can be us. But we need to stop demanding the impossible.

There are 300+ million people in America. Stop trying to get rid of every single racist person, and for F's sake stop inventing more racism. We've diluted the term so much that it hardly means anything anymore. There are people who hate gays, hate men, hate women, hate Asians, hate themselves, hate cats, whatever else. Ignore them. Most of them are harmless and just find comfort in being miserable. Police are going to kill people on accident. Those numbers continue to go down, but if we are waiting for them to hit zero, then let's stop even trying, because it's impossible. Cops are human. It's not a perfect system. Run the bad ones through the judicial system. And while we're at it, maybe we can make it easier on cops by committing a little less crime. Anyone up for committing less crime?

I’d suggest NOT looking into some of Dr. King’s other dreams...

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

I’d suggest NOT looking into some of Dr. King’s other dreams...

Definitely not the wet ones.

Seriously... is there something about MLK that someone who is casually aware of him should know?

[mike1498]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Definitely not the wet ones.

Seriously... is there something about MLK that someone who is casually aware of him should know?

He was communist and didn't pay his taxes. There may be more that I'm unaware of.

To be fair, at that time communism would have been a better solution for blacks because it was another way everyone would be regarded the same.

[jdandns]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

He sure would be. On the other hand, this happens a statistically insignificant number of times per encounter. So is the goal perfection?

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

Sorry. I should have left it at statistically insignificant and not said per encounter. But yes he’s be alive if he was white and yes this whole thing is over a very small number of encounters that go wrong.

This whole thing is over an enormous amount of encounters that go wrong.
Just because deaths don't occur in most of the instances doesn't mean that each one wasn't a terrible miscarriage of justice that occurred under the color of authority.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Definitely not the wet ones.

Seriously... is there something about MLK that someone who is casually aware of him should know?

His message would NEVER get across today. It wasn’t ALL about racial inequality.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

Definitely not the wet ones.

Seriously... is there something about MLK that someone who is casually aware of him should know?

His real name is Michael. Smart guy.

Got his degree in Theology. Not a smart guy.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I'm not sure what you mean about the schools; I sent over 32 countries that have schools running and links that show there is virtually no risk.

With regard to your statement, you cannot make the assumption that George Floyd would be alive today if he were white. More unarmed whites are killed by cops every year than blacks; we've never had a year since WaPo started tracking it where that wasn't the case. You're making a poor assumption at best, and I don't know why.

Also to say this is about a small amount of encounters that go wrong; the issue isn't that they go wrong. The issue largely is that the officers responsible go wrong. Unarmed men/women should not be met with deadly force by the police, plain and simple. It makes no difference what your stance is on racial this or that. The overwhelming majority of police officers are awesome at what they do. Some are not, and those some should face consequences but do not because of ridiculous union policies in largely democratic cities.

Perfection is not the goal. I don't believe in outcomes, I believe in systems. When you fix the system that allows the police office that murdered George Floyd, then you will inevitably save lives down the road. Not all of them, but some of them. That is progress.

And my point is that there are so few instances that “go wrong” - in quotes since you are being pedantic - that it isn’t really that much of a problem. If I remember right, something like 9 unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites were killed by police in 2019. How many were justified and out of how many “transactions”? I’m not convinced there is a problem. And if it’s only happening at most 28 times out of millions of transactions, then perfection is the goal since there may be riots every time it happens.

We have 330 million people in this country. Good luck making them all behave.

[JoeTheLucky]

[QUOTE=Don't read it as "Black Lives Matter".
Read is as "Black Lives Also Matter, In Addition To White Lives, Which Have Always Mattered".
It's a mouthful, I know. Maybe call it BLAM for short, the "A" standing for "also".

You'll feel better about the whole thing.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the tips.
I mean it.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by rcmb3220

And my point is that there are so few instances that “go wrong” - in quotes since you are being pedantic - that it isn’t really that much of a problem. If I remember right, something like 9 unarmed blacks and 19 unarmed whites were killed by police in 2019. How many were justified and out of how many “transactions”? I’m not convinced there is a problem. And if it’s only happening at most 28 times out of millions of transactions, then perfection is the goal since there may be riots every time it happens.

We have 330 million people in this country. Good luck making them all behave.

I don't disagree w/ your overall premise that it's a small # of deaths; but as was pointed out by (God help me) Jdands, not all officer complaints mean deaths.

This officer had no business being a police officer. A list of complaints from residents and other officers a mile long. Yet he stayed on the force, on the street because it's largely impossible to fire a police officer in a union. Improve the ability to hold cops accountable (like most every non-union job does) so that there are less chances for instances like this in the future.

It's that simple. No reasonable minded person expects a perfect police force. But I do expect when a guy is getting busted for passing a faux $20 check, not to have four officers unable to restrain him properly that leads to his death.

[JoeTheLucky]

If the "Native" American is racist of Land 'O Lakes stuff is racist..
https://images.app.goo.gl/guATMQy527Bq2Sqs8
Isn't this also?
https://images.app.goo.gl/2oYXSzZunHQnrZhq7





Here is a related joke you might have heard that I improved.

Proof that Land 'O Lakes is racist, They removed the "Indian" from her land just
like was legalized back in May 28th 1830.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

His message would NEVER get across today. It wasn’t ALL about racial inequality.

I give up. Can’t even put faith in MLK anymore.

[babyfaceposey]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

I give up. Can’t even put faith in MLK anymore.

I like what your wrote and agree with it.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

I don't disagree w/ your overall premise that it's a small # of deaths; but as was pointed out by (God help me) Jdands, not all officer complaints mean deaths.

This officer had no business being a police officer. A list of complaints from residents and other officers a mile long. Yet he stayed on the force, on the street because it's largely impossible to fire a police officer in a union. Improve the ability to hold cops accountable (like most every non-union job does) so that there are less chances for instances like this in the future.

It's that simple. No reasonable minded person expects a perfect police force. But I do expect when a guy is getting busted for passing a faux $20 check, not to have four officers unable to restrain him properly that leads to his death.

Reform or not he’ll be held accountable. And the reforms we are going to be getting will be doing more harm than good due to a massive overreaction to a statistically insignificant number of events. Sounds exactly like the kind of situation that calls for a do-nothing strategy you’d favor.

[TheHeel]

AP sources: White House aware of Russian bounties in 2019

https://apnews.com/425e43fa0ffdd6e126c5171653ec47d1

So who is going to spin/excuse this for Donnie Dementia?

I will start off. The artist that translates the daily intel briefings from written English language to stick figures For Donnie Dementia called out sick that day.

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

AP sources: White House aware of Russian bounties in 2019

https://apnews.com/425e43fa0ffdd6e126c5171653ec47d1

So who is going to spin/excuse this for Donnie Dementia?

I will start off. The artist that translates the daily intel briefings from written English language to stick figures For Donnie Dementia called out sick that day.

For those that claim to be experts on media bias, I’m sure the press secretary’s claims have your BS detector spinning out of control.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usa...amp/3236073001

[discostu]

From pandering to Putin to abusing allies and ignoring his own advisers, Trump's phone calls alarm US officials

I'm curious to see how all sides of the political sphere view the article above by Carl Bernstein. Clearly he's not a Trump fan, it's on CNN, etc...but I'm curious nonetheless.

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by jdandns

I think the general feeling is that if it had been a white man in custody for exactly what George Floyd was in custody for, that fellow would be alive right now. At that point, it falls to us all to determine why that is.

2016 wasn't that long ago.
You didn't answer the last time someone asked, so I'll give it a try.
What happened to Tony Timpa?
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/inve...-timpa-s-life/

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[alantown]

I don't post in this thread often, but I enjoy the spirited back-and-forth of the participants. I do have a comment or two though, pertaining to my love of music and the current social climate. Perhaps not the most important thing right now, considering other issues, but important to me nonetheless.

Given recent events, what with the changing of band names, deletion of various content and the like due to racial insensitivity, my question is where exactly is the line?

Is it now really inconceivable that the Taupin/John classic "Island Girl" will be a casualty of the movement due to it's subject matter? Tell me you can't see it happening. I can, and it sucks, because the entire song is about how beautiful and desirous this woman is.

What about Harry Nilsson's classic "Coconut"? Nilsson's emulation of a Jamaican doctor in the song can be considered to be the equivalent of blackface in audio form, no? He could be posthumously villified.

By now you think I'm nuts, and you're probably right, but I just wonder where the line is. How much longer will I, as a white dude, be able to boogie to my favorite Earth, Wind & Fire tune before getting dirty looks?

There has to be a line at some point.

Thanks for reading my rant. Please don't throw things at me.

[jk1937]

Originally Posted by alantown

I don't post in this thread often, but I enjoy the spirited back-and-forth of the participants. I do have a comment or two though, pertaining to my love of music and the current social climate. Perhaps not the most important thing right now, considering other issues, but important to me nonetheless.

Given recent events, what with the changing of band names, deletion of various content and the like due to racial insensitivity, my question is where exactly is the line?

Is it now really inconceivable that the Taupin/John classic "Island Girl" will be a casualty of the movement due to it's subject matter? Tell me you can't see it happening. I can, and it sucks, because the entire song is about how beautiful and desirous this woman is.

What about Harry Nilsson's classic "Coconut"? Nilsson's emulation of a Jamaican doctor in the song can be considered to be the equivalent of blackface in audio form, no? He could be posthumously villified.

By now you think I'm nuts, and you're probably right, but I just wonder where the line is. How much longer will I, as a white dude, be able to boogie to my favorite Earth, Wind & Fire tune before getting dirty looks?

There has to be a line at some point.

Thanks for reading my rant. Please don't throw things at me.

at this point i would not be surprised at anything. they removed an episode of golden girls from hulu because they were wearing mud face masks because some might mistake it for blackface.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by Astros19

If I claim all lives matter I get attacked by black lives matter people. Doesn't that seem odd to you?
Every dollar that gets donated to black lives matter ends up backing a democrat/liberal cause.
I'm neither Democrat or liberal why in the hell would I support them?
Are you one of those folks who believe racism is only a trait among white people?


Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

When the Boston bombings happened nobody said 'all cities strong' because everyone knew the issue was with Boston. It was 'Boston strong'. It's the same concept, obviously all lives matter, but black people are the ones being unfairly killed/targeted too often by police. If you cannot understand this that's on you. If you cannot say you believe black lives matter (like Donald Trump refuses to say) that's a bigger issue.

And no I am not 'one of these folks'. Racism happens everywhere. I am not a democrat or liberal either. I don't identify with a party because I have a brain and make my own decisions where to stand on each individual issue.

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by discostu

From pandering to Putin to abusing allies and ignoring his own advisers, Trump's phone calls alarm US officials

I'm curious to see how all sides of the political sphere view the article above by Carl Bernstein. Clearly he's not a Trump fan, it's on CNN, etc...but I'm curious nonetheless.

Given it came from Bolton, I wouldn’t give it the time of day.

[rman112]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

When the Boston bombings happened nobody said 'all cities strong' because everyone knew the issue was with Boston. It was 'Boston strong'. It's the same concept, obviously all lives matter, but black people are the ones being unfairly killed/targeted too often by police. If you cannot understand this that's on you. If you cannot say you believe black lives matter (like Donald Trump refuses to say) that's a bigger issue.

And no I am not 'one of these folks'. Racism happens everywhere. I am not a democrat or liberal either. I don't identify with a party because I have a brain and make my own decisions where to stand on each individual issue.

No one was forcing you to align with a specific movement with 'Boston Strong', though.

Meaning there was no implication that you hated people from Boston if you didn't say 'Boston Strong', make it your profile picture, or even say nothing about it at all.

[techtre2003]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

When the Boston bombings happened nobody said 'all cities strong' because everyone knew the issue was with Boston. It was 'Boston strong'. It's the same concept, obviously all lives matter, but black people are the ones being unfairly killed/targeted too often by police. If you cannot understand this that's on you. If you cannot say you believe black lives matter (like Donald Trump refuses to say) that's a bigger issue.

And no I am not 'one of these folks'. Racism happens everywhere. I am not a democrat or liberal either. I don't identify with a party because I have a brain and make my own decisions where to stand on each individual issue.

Why does one have to say “Black lives Matter” if you don’t agree with that movement? BLM is not simply about equality but the tearing down of the western culture. I have no issue with responsible police reform but I will never chant the mantra of BLM.