2020 Politics Thread - Enter At Your Own Risk - RULES IN OP

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by tpeichel34

We force people to wear masks in public, though many of us are no threat at all to others.

There’s not much forcing happening, even though there’s no downside.

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by free2131

The sticking point for me has always been that of bodily autonomy. Regardless if you or I think that the fetus is or is not a person, the bodily autonomy of the woman has to win out. We wouldn't force someone to give blood to save another life, nor would we require a person to give bone marrow.



Why should it be any different in the case of abortion? In my opinion, the right of the woman to bodily autonomy supersedes any kind of "right" that the father or the fetus might theoretically have.

I'd be curious what your opinion would be in the case of a homicide of a pregnant woman. Should the killer be charged with 2 murders or just the mothers?

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[NeedChapmans]

God help me, I'm really liking this guy all of a sudden.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

To add a crucial point to this: The US for-profit model subsidizes most of the Research&Development that allows for the European/Canadian socialized models to operate at much lower costs.

If the US were to move to a socialized model and our trillions of dollars annually had to be shouldered by other nations, it would actually capsize a few of them.

I think one of the reasons why we go in circles is because 1) our system really is broken but 2) its brokenness actually allows the other systems to exist.

(Which could mean that everything is, to a degree, broken if it relies on the wealthiest nation to basically gouge itself.)

You’re welcome, world. America is so awesome. At everything.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

I dabbled in Libertarianism for a few years and what I found is that they build the strongest arguments (that don't rely on special pleading or "just trust us" or some kind of appeal to an idealized version of human nature) but that it can be a quick path to some calloused and cold realities.

I would probably be a Libertarian if I hadn't spent those years working at a residential treatment facility and seeing how permanently damaged a person can become before they even hit puberty.

If I was going to summarize my views, I'd basically be a full-blown communist in regards to what I think should be done for children. Dog-eat-dog is one thing, but puppies don't stand a chance. If we could guarantee (or nearly) that 99% of people could make it to their adult years with an educated, level head on their shoulders, then I'd be totally on board with opening up the rest of our policies to Libertarian influence.

I think I’m down with this. My only concern is people who have 22 kids with 7 women and don’t pay for any of them. Maybe if you have one kid that you don’t take care of, you get a pass. Second kid you don’t take care of, castration.

[TheFrenzy]

For the record, I know that any discussion of abortion and life and personhood can easily bog down in hypothetical situations.

Perhaps one way of approaching the topic is by looking at other examples of our bodies and cells and issues of ownership or autonomy.

There's already plenty of debate revolving around when exactly we give up ownership of our cells and other bits and pieces of our bodies. Our bodies, not our cells? Do I legally own any blood that gets drawn at a hospital?

I was actually a little upset that the hospital refused to grant my request to keep my appendix once it was removed. Which was a very minor concern in comparison to my dad's issues with various surgical centers refusing to release his removed tumors to him (he was enrolled in a vaccine trial in Boston that needed as many cancerous samples as it could get). Some places were great and assisted him, but I still harbor a pretty deep grudge towards one facility in particular that threw out one of his last and largest tumors right as the trial was beginning to make some progress.

[tpeichel34]

Originally Posted by free2131

What medical condition can the public get from a woman having an abortion?

Choosing to not wear a mask means there is a possibility of giving someone a germ that in all likelihood will not end their life. Choosing an abortion ends a life every time.

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by ballhawkdawk

I think I’m down with this. My only concern is people who have 22 kids with 7 women and don’t pay for any of them. Maybe if you have one kid that you don’t take care of, you get a pass. Second kid you don’t take care of, castration.

This is one of those instances where I see it as someone holding a "gun" (biological euphemism here) to society's head.

I don't think anyone should get a free ride just because of their genital irresponsibility. I hate that idea. And at the same time, if my choice is to give some scumbag a free lunch in order to make sure that a dozen children don't grow up to become the same kind of irresponsible members of society—I'm going to go with the latter. I think that comes with encouraging social message of responsibility as well.

But I think we've got to go to the source and create better children who can then go on to become better citizens who can then go on to construct a better republic.

[Jgil316]

Phew - thank god the POTUS still believes the virus will just "go away"

[Astros19]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

This is one of those instances where I see it as someone holding a "gun" (biological euphemism here) to society's head.



I don't think anyone should get a free ride just because of their genital irresponsibility. I hate that idea. And at the same time, if my choice is to give some scumbag a free lunch in order to make sure that a dozen children don't grow up to become the same kind of irresponsible members of society—I'm going to go with the latter. I think that comes with encouraging social message of responsibility as well.



But I think we've got to go to the source and create better children who can then go on to become better citizens who can then go on to construct a better republic.

If I could be assured that that free lunch led to a dozen children not growing up to become the same kind of irresponsible members of society I'd be right with you.
So far, as the war on poverty has proven, that's not the case.
As it is, it seems more like enabling.

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[TheHeel]

So, BlowOut Trump supporters, how would you feel about our President if he, indeed, knew that Russia had a bounty on our troops?

US officials discovered Russia's payments to the Taliban to target US troops, but Trump's White House didn't tell House Republicans in a briefing

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-o...-troops-2020-6

[TheFrenzy]

Originally Posted by Astros19

If I could be assured that that free lunch led to a dozen children not growing up to become the same kind of irresponsible members of society I'd be right with you.
So far, as the war on poverty has proven, that's not the case.
As it is, it seems more like enabling.

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Looking around at the world right now, there don't seem to be many voices or institutions consistently championing the ideas of selflessness and responsibility.

Those that do seem to quickly be attacked for not measuring up to the purity tests of the day.

[Siberian13]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

Phew - thank god the POTUS still believes the virus will just "go away"

From the media/news, yes. Just like blm.

[DegaBama]

Originally Posted by Jgil316

Phew - thank god the POTUS still believes the virus will just "go away"

It will, they all do.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

So, BlowOut Trump supporters, how would you feel about our President if he, indeed, knew that Russia had a bounty on our troops?

US officials discovered Russia's payments to the Taliban to target US troops, but Trump's White House didn't tell House Republicans in a briefing

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-o...-troops-2020-6

They don't care. He can do no wrong, everything is fake, but what about, blah, blah, blah...don't bother with these people. They will never accept the truth.

[rman112]

Quality back and forth conversation between multiple people of different beliefs.

...

Trump sucks!

...

Yeah, Trump sucks! Trump voters suck!

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by calculusdork

Interesting article to say the least.

https://medium.com/@micsolana/jump-23d06adb4cb7

Dammit Grant ... another highly intelligent person saying the same thing in a different way.

I better not see this in my lifetime.

[zonacats8]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

So, BlowOut Trump supporters, how would you feel about our President if he, indeed, knew that Russia had a bounty on our troops?

US officials discovered Russia's payments to the Taliban to target US troops, but Trump's White House didn't tell House Republicans in a briefing

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-o...-troops-2020-6

[GoTribe!!!]

Trump supports also be like... yep it's from the New York Times, nuff said.

[Onions]

Originally Posted by rman112

Quality back and forth conversation between multiple people of different beliefs.

...

Trump sucks!

...

Yeah, Trump sucks! Trump voters suck!

Yep. The crazies have started filtering in. Some pretty good reading from this afternoon though.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by rman112

Quality back and forth conversation between multiple people of different beliefs.

...

Trump sucks!

...

Yeah, Trump sucks! Trump voters suck!

I think we almost hit 24 hours without hearing about Trump and Russia. I was getting worried that some of the posters in here had been kidnapped.

[TheHeel]

Originally Posted by GoTribe!!!

Trump supports also be like... yep it's from the New York Times, nuff said.

They've only been around since 1860? 1870? with how many Pulitzers?

But, yea, Trump is reliable.

[Onions]

Originally Posted by calculusdork

Interesting article to say the least.

https://medium.com/@micsolana/jump-23d06adb4cb7

I missed this when you posted it and just now read it after NC brought it up again a few posts ago.

Good read for sure.

One of my favorites from the piece:

"That we are not yet skeptical of every new piece of information we receive, with so much evidence all around us now that misinformation is not the exception but the rule, is indication that skepticism of this kind is simply not something we are meaningfully capable of on our own."

[Onions]

Originally Posted by TheHeel

They've only been around since 1860? 1870? with how many Pulitzers?

But, yea, Trump is reliable.

I wasn't reading the NYT back then, but it's certainly possible they are not who they used to be. A lot can change in 160 years.

I feel like they might need a disclaimer like all those investment commercials. "Past performance does not necessarily predict future results"

That said, I do read a fair amount of their content.

[discostu]

I'm just glad Vanilla Ice's show can still go on.

Corona be damned, nothing says "pandemic" like Vanilla Ice. Maybe those Milli Vanilli cover bands can get back to work too and show off some freedom.