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Old 09-02-2014, 08:03 AM   #26
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Agreed that the Mets have been a basket case, but the pitching will keep the team in games. Reminds me of when the A's had Gio/Anderson/Cahill. Not the best, but solid at worst and dominant at times.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:21 AM   #27
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please explain why its so horrible
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Unless you are talking about the bullpen, how is pitching a big problem? They have deGrom and Wheeler who are obviously young, but have looked very good this season, Harvey is coming back, Colon has a bad outing every now and then but is usually dependable, and then they have Gee/Niese/Syndergaard.

Best rotation in the bigs? No, but it certainly does not need as much improvement as the offense does.
You guys are hilarious. The Mets' starting staff is at the bottom of all of MLB with only the Pirates' staff under them. Look at the numbers, compared to other staffs in baseball. Try not to think to yourself, it is pretty good for the Mets and be objective if possible.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:42 AM   #28
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You guys are hilarious. The Mets' starting staff is at the bottom of all of MLB with only the Pirates' staff under them. Look at the numbers, compared to other staffs in baseball. Try not to think to yourself, it is pretty good for the Mets and be objective if possible.
What the hell are you talking about? Where are you getting this from?

I did look at the numbers compared to other clubs. They rank 12 in ERA, and have a lower opponent BA and more QS and Ks than most other clubs.

2014 MLB Team Pitching Stats - Major League Baseball - ESPN

I take it you don't watch much Mets baseball? Because anyone who does knows that pitching is not the problem.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:53 AM   #29
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What the hell are you talking about? Where are you getting this from?

I did look at the numbers compared to other clubs. They rank 12 in ERA, and have a lower opponent BA and more QS and Ks than most other clubs.

2014 MLB Team Pitching Stats - Major League Baseball - ESPN

I take it you don't watch much Mets baseball? Because anyone who does knows that pitching is not the problem.
I said it at the beginning of the season, the middle of the season and now toward the end of this season. Nothing about their current starting rotation tells me they are moving upward. Some weight certainly has to be given to the idea that a pitching staff can be demoralized without getting offensive support but the Mets starting staff this season has been part of the problem as well. What is really funny is this thread was started because the OP had a problem with the Mets defense and they are in the top 1/3 in MLB. Offensively they are in the bottom 1/3 in MLB but there are over half a dozen teams below them. While offense seems to be an issue, this team is far from a few solid bats before a .500 record. They need to vastly improve their starting rotation.
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Old 09-02-2014, 10:57 AM   #30
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I said it at the beginning of the season, the middle of the season and now toward the end of this season. Nothing about their current starting rotation tells me they are moving upward. Some weight certainly has to be given to the idea that a pitching staff can be demoralized without getting offensive support but the Mets starting staff this season has been part of the problem as well. What is really funny is this thread was started because the OP had a problem with the Mets defense and they are in the top 1/3 in MLB. Offensively they are in the bottom 1/3 in MLB but there are over half a dozen teams below them. While offense seems to be an issue, this team is far from a few solid bats before a .500 record. They need to vastly improve their starting rotation.
Defense really isn't an issue, this thread was an overreaction.

Where did you get your information that they were the second worst staff in baseball? Could the rotation improve for next year? Yea, they could use a better fifth starter (and fourth if they trade Colon), but they should not focus too much on pitching this off season. Second worst rotation in the league is a joke.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:09 AM   #31
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Once again I have no idea where you get your stats from. Obviously the mets outfield defense is one of the best, but their infield defense is mediocre, so let's stop calling it an overreaction. The pitching isn't dominant but they are in most games. Offense is the BIG problem. They can't come back from deficits of 3 or more, they don't add on and they don't have any power, average or speed.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:09 AM   #32
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Defense really isn't an issue, this thread was an overreaction.

Where did you get your information that they were the second worst staff in baseball? Could the rotation improve for next year? Yea, they could use a better fifth starter (and fourth if they trade Colon), but they should not focus too much on pitching this off season. Second worst rotation in the league is a joke.
Another year older for Colon, Harvey coming back from TJ, etc. These are questions about next year's rotation. Even with those major issues and questions, we are talking about the performance of this season and the rotation has been one of the worst. Try to save whatever you want from this season but the offense is not the only reason why this team is one of the worst in all of MLB and I suspect they will be next season as well.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:10 AM   #33
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Another year older for Colon, Harvey coming back from TJ, etc. These are questions about next year's rotation. Even with those major issues and questions, we are talking about the performance of this season and the rotation has been one of the worst. Try to save whatever you want from this season but the offense is not the only reason why this team is one of the worst in all of MLB and I suspect they will be next season as well.
But how are they one of the worst? Tell us where you get that info from? Sounds ludicrous to me.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:12 AM   #34
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Another year older for Colon, Harvey coming back from TJ, etc. These are questions about next year's rotation. Even with those major issues and questions, we are talking about the performance of this season and the rotation has been one of the worst. Try to save whatever you want from this season but the offense is not the only reason why this team is one of the worst in all of MLB and I suspect they will be next season as well.
I would love to know how they are one of the worst rotations in the leagues. You told me to look at the numbers. I did. They are far from the worst.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:40 AM   #35
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But how are they one of the worst? Tell us where you get that info from? Sounds ludicrous to me.


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I would love to know how they are one of the worst rotations in the leagues. You told me to look at the numbers. I did. They are far from the worst.
I will even let you pick your best starting 5 for this year's rotation and you will see how they are one of the worst in MLB. Let's play.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:48 AM   #36
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I will even let you pick your best starting 5 for this year's rotation and you will see how they are one of the worst in MLB. Let's play.
So basically you are saying you just pulled that stuff out of thin air.

Feels like a Ben post.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:53 AM   #37
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So basically you are saying you just pulled that stuff out of thin air.

Feels like a Ben post.
What? I am letting you pick your starting 5 on the Mets this season, which do not even have to be currently in the rotation. It will be very easy to see, they are one of the worst rotations in baseball from top to bottom, unless you are a Mets fan of course.
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Old 09-02-2014, 11:55 AM   #38
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What? I am letting you pick your starting 5 on the Mets this season, which do not even have to be currently in the rotation. It will be very easy to see, they are one of the worst rotations in baseball from top to bottom, unless you are a Mets fan of course.
Lol I'm the biggest non homer on this board, but what you're saying is ludicrous.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:01 PM   #39
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What? I am letting you pick your starting 5 on the Mets this season, which do not even have to be currently in the rotation. It will be very easy to see, they are one of the worst rotations in baseball from top to bottom, unless you are a Mets fan of course.
I was referring to how you haven't shown where you got that they were the second worst rotation in the league from.

But alright, let's go with their main rotation.
Wheeler
deGrom
Colon
Niese
Gee

Ranks 12th in ERA, 6th in QS, 9th in Ks, 2nd in IP, and 11th in BA. Awful indeed, clearly they are one of the worst rotations.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:02 PM   #40
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Lol I'm the biggest non homer on this board, but what you're saying is ludicrous.
Non-homer? Let's see. Mets avatar, user name, and endless Mets threads. Got it. Not a homer.

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Old 09-02-2014, 12:04 PM   #41
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I was referring to how you haven't shown where you got that they were the second worst rotation in the league from.

But alright, let's go with their main rotation.
Wheeler
deGrom
Colon
Niese
Gee

Ranks 12th in ERA, 6th in QS, 9th in Ks, 2nd in IP, and 11th in BA. Awful indeed, clearly they are one of the worst rotations.
Any issue with placing them from top to bottom? Also, feel free to pick any other rotation they are better than as well.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:11 PM   #42
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Any issue with placing them from top to bottom? Also, feel free to pick any other rotation they are better than as well.
I posted them as they came to my mind. How about Gee, Wheeler, Colon, Niese, deGrom? The order I posted them is about how I rank them though.

Alright, Miami, NYY, Boston, both Chicagos, Arizona, Texas to name a few.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:15 PM   #43
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Non-homer? Let's see. Mets avatar, user name, and endless Mets threads. Got it. Not a homer.

Lol you clearly don't know what a homer is then
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:40 PM   #44
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I posted them as they came to my mind. How about Gee, Wheeler, Colon, Niese, deGrom? The order I posted them is about how I rank them though.

Alright, Miami, NYY, Boston, both Chicagos, Arizona, Texas to name a few.
You have Gee at the top of your rotation? He has played below replacement level baseball. Of the teams listed above, only the Rangers and D-Backs are really even close to how bad the Mets rotation has been this season. Without the production of Darvish, I would say the Mets' rotation is clearly better than the Rangers currently but I would place them on par with the current rotation of the D-Back even without McCarthy getting any consideration. Take a look at where those teams are currently. That is where the Mets are at. Can it get better? Not this season but anything is possible in the future. This organization is a mess and it will be a while before they get around .500.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:05 PM   #45
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You have Gee at the top of your rotation? He has played below replacement level baseball. Of the teams listed above, only the Rangers and D-Backs are really even close to how bad the Mets rotation has been this season. Without the production of Darvish, I would say the Mets' rotation is clearly better than the Rangers currently but I would place them on par with the current rotation of the D-Back even without McCarthy getting any consideration. Take a look at where those teams are currently. That is where the Mets are at. Can it get better? Not this season but anything is possible in the future. This organization is a mess and it will be a while before they get around .500.
No, Gee is at the bottom of the rotation. I was saying no matter how you look at the order, these are the guys who have been in the rotation. As I said, the rotation should be Wheeler, deGrom, Colon, Niese, Gee. Gee has played below replacement level ball. But guess what? He's a fifth starter. Oakland's Jason Hammel has played below replacement level ball. Doesn't mean the A's rotation sucks. Not every pitcher in your rotation will be a dependable starter.

This is such a joke. You told me to go look at the numbers to see how bad the rotation was. As I posted, they rank 12th in ERA, 6th in QS, 9th in Ks, 2nd in IP, and 11th in BA.

Maybe the question should be why do you think their rotation is so awful? They don't have a big sexy name in there, like a King Felix, a Kershaw, or a Darvish? Because the numbers which you told me to look at clearly show that they are not in the cellar, let alone the second worst rotation in the league.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:33 PM   #46
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No, Gee is at the bottom of the rotation. I was saying no matter how you look at the order, these are the guys who have been in the rotation. As I said, the rotation should be Wheeler, deGrom, Colon, Niese, Gee. Gee has played below replacement level ball. But guess what? He's a fifth starter. Oakland's Jason Hammel has played below replacement level ball. Doesn't mean the A's rotation sucks. Not every pitcher in your rotation will be a dependable starter.

This is such a joke. You told me to go look at the numbers to see how bad the rotation was. As I posted, they rank 12th in ERA, 6th in QS, 9th in Ks, 2nd in IP, and 11th in BA.

Maybe the question should be why do you think their rotation is so awful? They don't have a big sexy name in there, like a King Felix, a Kershaw, or a Darvish? Because the numbers which you told me to look at clearly show that they are not in the cellar, let alone the second worst rotation in the league.
I see now that your rotation would start with Wheeler at the top but that is no matter, as we are talking top to bottom and Wheeler is not a front end starter. Right you are, they did not have a big name in the rotation this season, nor did they have any top end production. You wanted to discuss only the starters but yet you are posting stats for all of the pitching numbers. For starting staff members, they are 13th in ERA, 12th in K's per 9, 9th in IP's, and 10th in BA. Not quite the picture you painted.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:43 PM   #47
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I see now that your rotation would start with Wheeler at the top but that is no matter, as we are talking top to bottom and Wheeler is not a front end starter. Right you are, they did not have a big name in the rotation this season, nor did they have any top end production. You wanted to discuss only the starters but yet you are posting stats for all of the pitching numbers. For starting staff members, they are 13th in ERA, 12th in K's per 9, 9th in IP's, and 10th in BA. Not quite the picture you painted.
And not quite the picture you painted either? Let's go by your numbers then. Unless I am missing something, those numbers are all above average compared to all rotations in the league. So you just proved that the Mets' numbers are above average, yet you say they are the second worst rotation in baseball.

Okay.
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Old 09-02-2014, 01:57 PM   #48
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And not quite the picture you painted either? Let's go by your numbers then. Unless I am missing something, those numbers are all above average compared to all rotations in the league. So you just proved that the Mets' numbers are above average, yet you say they are the second worst rotation in baseball.

Okay.
The culmination of the stats you posted, certainly does paint a picture more true to what I have stated. The Mets' starters have a WAR of 6.5, the same as the Rockies' staff, above the Pirates' starting staff at 4.5 which is the bottom in MLB. Where is the productivity going to come from moving forward? Long road ahead, where it currently stands.
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Old 09-02-2014, 02:01 PM   #49
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The culmination of the stats you posted, certainly does paint a picture more true to what I have stated. The Mets' starters have a WAR of 6.5, the same as the Rockies' staff, above the Pirates' starting staff at 4.5 which is the bottom in MLB. Where is the productivity going to come from moving forward? Long road ahead, where it currently stands.
It would certainly help if the Mets had some offense to get some more wins for the starters.

Wheeler, Harvey, deGrom and potentially Syndergaard are still young. I'm not worried about pitching for the future. I am worried about improving the offense enough to the point that they consistently score more than two runs per game.
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Old 09-02-2014, 03:07 PM   #50
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The culmination of the stats you posted, certainly does paint a picture more true to what I have stated. The Mets' starters have a WAR of 6.5, the same as the Rockies' staff, above the Pirates' starting staff at 4.5 which is the bottom in MLB. Where is the productivity going to come from moving forward? Long road ahead, where it currently stands.
Please name a single stat other than WAR that places the Mets as one of the worst staffs in baseball.
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