MJ would take Kobe over Lebron - Page 19

murrke03 · 02-20-2013, 09:20 PM

Lol so Lebron fans are homers but Kobe fans can say he was in his prime for 10 years.

Lmao. You tell me who is a homer. What a joke.

pingbling23 · 02-20-2013, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1eyed_jack

Its not a box score nerd. I made my guess, I was just using the stats to show how he played during a season someone didn't consider his prime.

There's a big difference between using stats to SUPPORT an opinion and using stats to FORM an opinion.

I was using them to support.

Sorry, I'm having a hard time following you? I assumed you posted the "box score nerd" comment due to my long post filled with stats. I was using those stats to support my opinion on the lebron or Kobe debate. Can you please explain the difference of support/form, this confused me lol.

murrke03 · 02-20-2013, 10:42 PM

Lets make this easier. If you had to pick Kobe of the past for your team what year would you pick to get the best Kobe?

Lakerhater · 02-20-2013, 11:50 PM

Sorry for the long post, but I love reading these boards and it drives me crazy sometimes. I'm probably a bit older than most of you here, so maybe I can bring some levity to this thread, having grown up during the Bird/Magic years and Jordan's prime during high school/college and having played college ball with and against many NBA players. Jordan is hands down the greatest player to ever play. I hate the Lakers (obviously), but Kobe is the best offensive player I've ever seen. Jordan is the most clutch player ever (sorry Kobe fans, but Kobe is the most overrated clutch player ever). Jordan wanted to win so bad he was willing to let short white guys take the final shot if necessary (Kobe would rather shoot over 3 defenders instead), it's like we forget that it's still a team game. I'd take Jordan, Bird, Magic, Reggie Miller before I'd take Kobe for a final shot. The numbers show this to be true. I love Kobe's intensity and will to win, but it prevents him from making others around him better, unfortunately, because I love his game in general. Lebron has 3 of the last 4 MVP awards and should get his 4th this year. You can count on one hand the number of players with 4 or more MVP's. He's been to the finals 3 times already, with one win. He's the best player on the planet right now (Durant fans, sorry, it's not really as close as you think, and Durant is an absolute stud!). Comparing Jordan & Lebron in terms of NBA seasons isn't fair because Jordan had 3 years to mature and his game was sick when he walked into the league, Lebron had to learn the game that Jordan already knew coming in. Realistically, Lebron could finish as the all time points leader, one of a handful of players with 10,000 assists,10,000 rebounds, now THAT's ridiculous! Throw in a few titles, perhaps 5,6, or more MVP awards, and now we've got a comparison! Again, I love Kobe's game and what he's done for the league, but 2 finals MVP's, one regular season MVP (should be 2, thanks Steve Nash), doesn't really impress me as much as it should. Kobe gets a seat at the table, but he's more like top ten, not top five. And right now, I'm seeing that Bird might have to drop to the 2nd team all time if Lebron keeps this up. Just sayin'. And for the fools earlier in this thread talking about having to go to college to hoop in the league, if 14 year olds can play pro tennis, your argument holds no weight. In this country, if you can do the job you want, you should be allowed at age 18, period. If you're good enough, no one should tell you you can't do something.

sucram · 02-20-2013, 11:54 PM

^ Did you just compare Tennis with basketball? If so their argument carries more weight than a sumo wrestler

xavieronly1 · 02-21-2013, 12:06 AM

That is so hard to read, and I don't even bother........

Lakerhater · 02-21-2013, 12:07 AM

Ok guy let's take football instead. Why should the NFL be able to tell young men they have to go to college for 3 years before they can play pro football? They shouldn't have that right if the players are able to play, they should be able to play. Is that easier for you to wrap your mind around?

sucram · 02-21-2013, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakerhater

Ok guy let's take football instead. Why should the NFL be able to tell young men they have to go to college for 3 years before they can play pro football? They shouldn't have that right if the players are able to play, they should be able to play. Is that easier for you to wrap your mind around?

Sorry you lost me with Tennis... Now your comparing football with tennis? Getting colder

Lakerhater · 02-21-2013, 12:17 AM

That made me chuckle, nice one!

1eyed_jack · 02-21-2013, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pingbling23

Sorry, I'm having a hard time following you? I assumed you posted the "box score nerd" comment due to my long post filled with stats. I was using those stats to support my opinion on the lebron or Kobe debate. Can you please explain the difference of support/form, this confused me lol.

I'm not sure if I was responding to you or not. I think I was more responding to the people that post all that anti-kobe being clutch statistics despite the majority of NBA players thinking Kobe is the most clutch player in the game.

SocraticGoat777 · 02-21-2013, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lakerhater

Sorry for the long post, but I love reading these boards and it drives me crazy sometimes. I'm probably a bit older than most of you here, so maybe I can bring some levity to this thread, having grown up during the Bird/Magic years and Jordan's prime during high school/college and having played college ball with and against many NBA players. Jordan is hands down the greatest player to ever play. I hate the Lakers (obviously), but Kobe is the best offensive player I've ever seen. Jordan is the most clutch player ever (sorry Kobe fans, but Kobe is the most overrated clutch player ever). Jordan wanted to win so bad he was willing to let short white guys take the final shot if necessary (Kobe would rather shoot over 3 defenders instead), it's like we forget that it's still a team game. I'd take Jordan, Bird, Magic, Reggie Miller before I'd take Kobe for a final shot. The numbers show this to be true. I love Kobe's intensity and will to win, but it prevents him from making others around him better, unfortunately, because I love his game in general. Lebron has 3 of the last 4 MVP awards and should get his 4th this year. You can count on one hand the number of players with 4 or more MVP's. He's been to the finals 3 times already, with one win. He's the best player on the planet right now (Durant fans, sorry, it's not really as close as you think, and Durant is an absolute stud!). Comparing Jordan & Lebron in terms of NBA seasons isn't fair because Jordan had 3 years to mature and his game was sick when he walked into the league, Lebron had to learn the game that Jordan already knew coming in. Realistically, Lebron could finish as the all time points leader, one of a handful of players with 10,000 assists,10,000 rebounds, now THAT's ridiculous! Throw in a few titles, perhaps 5,6, or more MVP awards, and now we've got a comparison! Again, I love Kobe's game and what he's done for the league, but 2 finals MVP's, one regular season MVP (should be 2, thanks Steve Nash), doesn't really impress me as much as it should. Kobe gets a seat at the table, but he's more like top ten, not top five. And right now, I'm seeing that Bird might have to drop to the 2nd team all time if Lebron keeps this up. Just sayin'. And for the fools earlier in this thread talking about having to go to college to hoop in the league, if 14 year olds can play pro tennis, your argument holds no weight. In this country, if you can do the job you want, you should be allowed at age 18, period. If you're good enough, no one should tell you you can't do something.

First of all, welcome to the forums. Glad to see your point of view. Alot of people on this forum obviously havent played against NBA players, or played college ball, but I would imagine alot of people have played High school ball. So if someone has started balling since he was 5, and plays basketball thru-out high school: that is almost 13 years of experience. Someone who plays college ball has 17 years of experience. The actual knowledge of the game, in terms of spotting talent, between a college, and high school ball player is miniscule, especially if you are watching NBA/NCAA all thru-out college. One could argue that you dont necessarily have to be a great player to be able to spot great talent: like Phil Jackson was a better coach than player?

I agree with you that there should not be a limit on age for the NBA. However, Kobe is not an overrated clutch player. He has more offensive weapons than MJ, but isnt as good at executing it. Kobe>Reggie Miller any time, any where, and is MORE clutch without a question. Also Kevin Durant is equal to, if not better than Lebron for his age. Just because he doesnt play as flashy as Lebron doesnt mean he isnt not anywhere close. Lebron can be MVP 4 times, but its not about MVPs, its about championships. Once Wade gets older, there is no way Lebron will be able to be clutch enough to win more rings on his own. Hell I would take Kyrie Irving over Lebron, in 3-4 years more development.

Lebron is 29 next year, his game is too dependent on his genetics and he doesnt have enough scoring talent to pull thru in his 30s when he cant pound the point every poss. Hell be old, his knees will age, his speed will drop. He will do the one-two step pull up fade, or the crap that Hakeem thought him, but hes not as smooth doing it. He will be much easier to defend, once hes not as effective driving the ball to the hoop. Durant on the other Hand is only 24, and is putting up numbers like Lebron is... He does it so effortlessly. Hes light, like a feather. His knees arent getting damaged like Lebrons are under 260 pounds every night pounding the paint. Durant will "sneak in the back door" as Michael Jordan put it.

tristan20 · 02-21-2013, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SocraticGoat777

Lebron is 29 next year, his game is too dependent on his genetics and he doesnt have enough scoring talent to pull thru in his 30s when he cant pound the point every poss. Hell be old, his knees will age, his speed will drop. He will do the one-two step pull up fade, or the crap that Hakeem thought him, but hes not as smooth doing it. He will be much easier to defend, once hes not as effective driving the ball to the hoop.

LOL

He depends on his genetics? What a ridiculous thing to say. There are big guys in the nba that are crap. Where are their genetics?

Durant has long ass arms, so genetics doesn't help him?

Lebron scores with much less effort than everyone else, hence why his efficiency is so high, who has been able to stop him?

Lebron isnt a scorer, yet he is the youngest ever to 10k then 20k, but people dont consider him a scorer. What he does is more than just throw up low percentage shots.

Honestly think before you type.

SocraticGoat777 · 02-21-2013, 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristan20

LOL

He depends on his genetics? What a ridiculous thing to say. There are big guys in the nba that are crap. Where are their genetics?

I am saying to be top 5 all time.... Obviously we are talking about the best of the best conversation here.

sucram · 02-21-2013, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristan20

LOL

He depends on his genetics? What a ridiculous thing to say. There are big guys in the nba that are crap. Where are their genetics?

Durant has long ass arms, so genetics doesn't help him?

They don't have any that is why they are crap... All nba players are blessed with good genetics

Some just have better than others, Lebron cough cough Lebron

tristan20 · 02-21-2013, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sucram

They don't have any that is why they are crap... All nba players are blessed with good genetics

Some just have better than others, Lebron cough cough Lebron

Yes but size doesn't equal skill.

How many of these big "genetics freaks" have we seen come and go?

SocraticGoat777 · 02-21-2013, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristan20

LOL

He depends on his genetics? What a ridiculous thing to say. There are big guys in the nba that are crap. Where are their genetics?

Durant has long ass arms, so genetics doesn't help him?

Lebron scores with much less effort than everyone else, hence why his efficiency is so high, who has been able to stop him?

Lebron isnt a scorer, yet he is the youngest ever to 10k then 20k, but people dont consider him a scorer. What he does is more than just throw up low percentage shots.

Honestly think before you type.

Yeah and Durant is only 24. When Lebron was 24 do you know what he was doing the 4th quarter? I made hundreds of bucks betting on Lebrick missing shots. What makes Lebron such a threat is that defenders dont know if hel drive or pull up for a shot. Lebron cant do that in 5 years when hes Kobes age. Hel be too old. Kevin Durant has a lightning fast release which is unstoppable because of his length. Length dont age. Also KD does insane crossover. Their efficiency is about the same. Those that say KD cant defend havent watched him closely.

tristan20 · 02-21-2013, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SocraticGoat777

Yeah and Durant is only 24. When Lebron was 24 do you know what he was doing the 4th quarter? I made hundreds of bucks betting on Lebrick missing shots. What makes Lebron such a threat is that defenders dont know if hel drive or pull up for a shot. Lebron cant do that in 5 years when hes Kobes age. Hel be too old. Kevin Durant has a lightning fast release which is unstoppable because of his length. Length dont age. Also KD does insane crossover. Their efficiency is about the same. Those that say KD cant defend havent watched him closely.

Durant can't defend, trust me I watch him play.
Guys drive right past him and even put shots up in his face all the time.

Why do you think he cant guard Lebron, but Lebron can guard him?

He has a great crossover because of his arm length.

Who cares what he does in the next 5 years? He's owning the nba in his prime. And if he cant hit jumpers, he will pass. Average stockton like numbers lol

tristan20 · 02-21-2013, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SocraticGoat777

Yeah and Durant is only 24. When Lebron was 24 do you know what he was doing the 4th quarter? I made hundreds of bucks betting on Lebrick missing shots. What makes Lebron such a threat is that defenders dont know if hel drive or pull up for a shot. Lebron cant do that in 5 years when hes Kobes age. Hel be too old. Kevin Durant has a lightning fast release which is unstoppable because of his length. Length dont age. Also KD does insane crossover. Their efficiency is about the same. Those that say KD cant defend havent watched him closely.

At 24 did Lebron have the best Shot blocker in the league, top 3 PG, top 6th man?

SocraticGoat777 · 02-21-2013, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristan20

At 24 did Lebron have the best Shot blocker in the league, top 3 PG, top 6th man?

IF Kevin Durant and Lebron James switched places, right now, today. Miami wins Title hands down.

Kosmo Kards · 02-21-2013, 01:05 AM

I can easily see LeBron playing at a very high level for 5-6 more seasons, if not more. He hasn't had any real injury issues throughout his ten year career like D Wade has. I don't really see him slowing down because of injury. He remind me of a more athletic Karl Malone in that aspect. Of course you never know but my money would be on LeBron staying healthy until his mid 30's.

Kosmo Kards · 02-21-2013, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SocraticGoat777

IF Kevin Durant and Lebron James switched places, right now, today. Miami wins Title hands down.

Durant is an elite scorer, but not yet an elite overall player though.

tristan20 · 02-21-2013, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SocraticGoat777

IF Kevin Durant and Lebron James switched places, right now, today. Miami wins Title hands down.

Highly doubt it, Durant isnt that good. He's just going to be like Ray Allen, Battier and Mike Miller. Whos going to do the passing and play center? Bosh?

LOL

OKC would win without a doubt!

tristan20 · 02-21-2013, 01:09 AM

OKC has the luxury of having Westbrook who has never missed a game his entire career.

If he is missing, OKC would fall apart.

SocraticGoat777 · 02-21-2013, 01:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristan20

OKC has the luxury of having Westbrook who has never missed a game his entire career.

If he is missing, OKC would fall apart.

Dwade and Bosh are Allstars that are clutch... What are you guys smoking? Bosh was a 24ppg beast at Toronto, and Dwade Was season MVP, and Averaged 30ppg before Lebron came. Arguable Wade is more clutch than Kobe. Westbrook cant hold a candle to Wade for fourth quarter performance. Ibaka cant be anywhere the scorer Bosh was. Not to mention Ray Allen, one of the big3 from Boston, is there to give Lebron a step up. Lebron is being baby fed.

Kosmo Kards · 02-21-2013, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tristan20

OKC has the luxury of having Westbrook who has never missed a game his entire career.

If he is missing, OKC would fall apart.

That's extremely impressive considering it's his 5th season. Guy is unbelievably durable. There isn't one team in the league that wouldn't take a monster hit losing their second best player though, including Miami.

02-21-2013, 12:06 AM	#456
xavieronly1 Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 13,005	That is so hard to read, and I don't even bother........ __________________ Instagram IG: xavieronly1

02-21-2013, 01:05 AM	#470
Kosmo Kards Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 3,471	I can easily see LeBron playing at a very high level for 5-6 more seasons, if not more. He hasn't had any real injury issues throughout his ten year career like D Wade has. I don't really see him slowing down because of injury. He remind me of a more athletic Karl Malone in that aspect. Of course you never know but my money would be on LeBron staying healthy until his mid 30's. __________________ L Ron's Chosen Disciple!!!

02-20-2013, 09:20 PM	#451
murrke03 Banned Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,606 murrke03	Lol so Lebron fans are homers but Kobe fans can say he was in his prime for 10 years. Lmao. You tell me who is a homer. What a joke.

02-20-2013, 10:42 PM	#453
murrke03 Banned Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,606 murrke03	Lets make this easier. If you had to pick Kobe of the past for your team what year would you pick to get the best Kobe?

02-20-2013, 11:50 PM	#454
Lakerhater Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Portland Posts: 104 birdmanlives	Sorry for the long post, but I love reading these boards and it drives me crazy sometimes. I'm probably a bit older than most of you here, so maybe I can bring some levity to this thread, having grown up during the Bird/Magic years and Jordan's prime during high school/college and having played college ball with and against many NBA players. Jordan is hands down the greatest player to ever play. I hate the Lakers (obviously), but Kobe is the best offensive player I've ever seen. Jordan is the most clutch player ever (sorry Kobe fans, but Kobe is the most overrated clutch player ever). Jordan wanted to win so bad he was willing to let short white guys take the final shot if necessary (Kobe would rather shoot over 3 defenders instead), it's like we forget that it's still a team game. I'd take Jordan, Bird, Magic, Reggie Miller before I'd take Kobe for a final shot. The numbers show this to be true. I love Kobe's intensity and will to win, but it prevents him from making others around him better, unfortunately, because I love his game in general. Lebron has 3 of the last 4 MVP awards and should get his 4th this year. You can count on one hand the number of players with 4 or more MVP's. He's been to the finals 3 times already, with one win. He's the best player on the planet right now (Durant fans, sorry, it's not really as close as you think, and Durant is an absolute stud!). Comparing Jordan & Lebron in terms of NBA seasons isn't fair because Jordan had 3 years to mature and his game was sick when he walked into the league, Lebron had to learn the game that Jordan already knew coming in. Realistically, Lebron could finish as the all time points leader, one of a handful of players with 10,000 assists,10,000 rebounds, now THAT's ridiculous! Throw in a few titles, perhaps 5,6, or more MVP awards, and now we've got a comparison! Again, I love Kobe's game and what he's done for the league, but 2 finals MVP's, one regular season MVP (should be 2, thanks Steve Nash), doesn't really impress me as much as it should. Kobe gets a seat at the table, but he's more like top ten, not top five. And right now, I'm seeing that Bird might have to drop to the 2nd team all time if Lebron keeps this up. Just sayin'. And for the fools earlier in this thread talking about having to go to college to hoop in the league, if 14 year olds can play pro tennis, your argument holds no weight. In this country, if you can do the job you want, you should be allowed at age 18, period. If you're good enough, no one should tell you you can't do something.

02-20-2013, 11:54 PM	#455
sucram Banned Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,132	^ Did you just compare Tennis with basketball? If so their argument carries more weight than a sumo wrestler

02-21-2013, 12:07 AM	#457
Lakerhater Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Portland Posts: 104 birdmanlives	Ok guy let's take football instead. Why should the NFL be able to tell young men they have to go to college for 3 years before they can play pro football? They shouldn't have that right if the players are able to play, they should be able to play. Is that easier for you to wrap your mind around?

02-21-2013, 12:17 AM	#459
Lakerhater Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Portland Posts: 104 birdmanlives	That made me chuckle, nice one!

02-21-2013, 01:09 AM	#473
tristan20 Banned Join Date: Dec 2008 Posts: 12,909	OKC has the luxury of having Westbrook who has never missed a game his entire career. If he is missing, OKC would fall apart.