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Old 11-02-2018, 12:05 AM   #1
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Default PSA vs BGS? Whose more strict? Who sells for more? Past vs Present

Like I said in another post. I'm just getting back into the hobby from when I was a kid in the early 2000's. Back then the sentiment was that BGS was more strict and would sell for more on ebay for a card with the same grade.

Now, it seems that the tables have turned. From what I'm reading it's PSA that's more strict on grading and PSA is the one that retains the higher value at the same grade. Am I reading this situation correct? Can anyone with knowledge of the early 2000's to now chime in? If its is the case, when did this change?

Also, I was just watching this video from eliteco3. It's very interesting what he's saying as he goes through each card in the video. Saying if he had submitted the card to PSA it would have been a grade or two lower and explaining why. You can watch it starting from about 5:45.

https://youtu.be/5gJRQKrOFZc?t=346
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:15 AM   #2
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there's a grading section in this forum. You will probably find more help there.

PSA is stricter on the corners. BGS is stricter on the centering and surface, particularly for chrome cards. That's about it for modern. GL
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Old 11-02-2018, 12:53 AM   #3
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grading is a scam
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Old 11-02-2018, 01:17 AM   #4
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there's a grading section in this forum. You will probably find more help there.

PSA is stricter on the corners. BGS is stricter on the centering and surface, particularly for chrome cards. That's about it for modern. GL
This is pretty much would you need to know
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Old 11-02-2018, 03:50 AM   #5
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I've noticed in the last year or so that PSA has been much more lenient. Cards that used to be 8s are now 9s and 9s are now 10s. Anyone else notice or feel this?
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Old 11-02-2018, 07:37 AM   #6
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I've noticed in the last year or so that PSA has been much more lenient. Cards that used to be 8s are now 9s and 9s are now 10s. Anyone else notice or feel this?
I've been grading with PSA for about 10 years now, on average about 1000 cards a year... if anything, I've experienced the exact opposite!
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Old 11-02-2018, 07:59 AM   #7
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I've been grading with PSA for about 10 years now, on average about 1000 cards a year... if anything, I've experienced the exact opposite!
Same here, PSA is super tough. I have maybe one card out of 200 submitted this past year where I thought it was overgraded but many, many that seem a tad undergraded to me (like could have had an 8.5 vs. 8).

I honestly don't know who is COLLECTING BGS cards (although many still keep submitting to them on here). I have hundreds of PSA graded cards from 1911 to modern and not a single BGS. If I want them to retain value in the long term, I find it pointless to have BGS in my collection.

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Old 11-02-2018, 08:07 AM   #8
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I've been grading with PSA for about 10 years now, on average about 1000 cards a year... if anything, I've experienced the exact opposite!
Same here, but I do not grade too many modern cards, so they are tougher on the older cards.
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Old 11-02-2018, 09:31 AM   #9
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I've noticed in the last year or so that PSA has been much more lenient. Cards that used to be 8s are now 9s and 9s are now 10s. Anyone else notice or feel this?
I think there are graders at both places that are dream crushers. For example, I have a 101 card order on it's way back from PSA now and 78 are 10's. None of them made BGS 9.5. On the other side I've cracked about 100 PSA 9's this year and submitted them to BGS and I'd guess 80% have been 9.5 or better. Sadly I think the results are luck of the draw due to the difference in graders.
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Old 11-02-2018, 05:25 PM   #10
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Appreciate all the feedback. Some good stuff in here. Anyone want to chime in on past vs present?

Back in the early 2000's. The perception I remember was BGS was more strict and would sell for more on ebay for a card with the same grade.

Now to present day, it seems that the tables have turned. From what I'm reading, it's PSA that's more strict on grading and PSA is the one that retains the higher value at the same grade. Am I reading this situation correct?
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Old 11-02-2018, 06:15 PM   #11
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Appreciate all the feedback. Some good stuff in here. Anyone want to chime in on past vs present?

Back in the early 2000's. The perception I remember was BGS was more strict and would sell for more on ebay for a card with the same grade.

Now to present day, it seems that the tables have turned. From what I'm reading, it's PSA that's more strict on grading and PSA is the one that retains the higher value at the same grade. Am I reading this situation correct?

Yes, there is a certain cachet to "Old Label" Beckett cards, when if you received a 9.5 Gem Mint the card was undoubtedly Gem Mint. I do believe BGS has gotten much, much more lenient on handing out gem or better grades since that time. (I believe they've switched ownership groups, too.)

Today, with the exception of Bowman Chrome Prospect Autos, a PSA 10 is virtually always worth more than a BGS 9.5, even one with quad 9.5s. In fact, I think a PSA 10 is closer to a BGS 10 in value than a BGS 9.5 is to a PSA 10.
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Old 11-02-2018, 07:37 PM   #12
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Vintage = PSA
Also the PSA Pop Report and Registry is something that might greatly influence your decision on where to grade, both for personal and resale. I only RCR with beckett at shows everything else is going to PSA, unless the RCR hits a BGS 10.
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Old 11-02-2018, 10:35 PM   #13
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Yes, there is a certain cachet to "Old Label" Beckett cards, when if you received a 9.5 Gem Mint the card was undoubtedly Gem Mint. I do believe BGS has gotten much, much more lenient on handing out gem or better grades since that time. (I believe they've switched ownership groups, too.)

Today, with the exception of Bowman Chrome Prospect Autos, a PSA 10 is virtually always worth more than a BGS 9.5, even one with quad 9.5s. In fact, I think a PSA 10 is closer to a BGS 10 in value than a BGS 9.5 is to a PSA 10.
Interesting. Thanks for the insight. Didn't know about the ownership change.
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Old 11-05-2018, 07:11 PM   #14
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PSA is what you'd expect. Not tough, but not easy. Accurate grading.

BGS is easy. Lenient and inconsistent. Never know what your card will come back.

Old BGS 9.5 = or better than your average Black Label today.

Old PSA 10 = similar to todays PSA 10. Sometimes back in the day PSA was way too easy, but thats another story.
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Old 11-05-2018, 07:15 PM   #15
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Absolutely write off anyone who says that BGS is tougher on surface. They have no idea what they are talking about.
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Old 11-06-2018, 03:18 PM   #16
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Two 1956 Topps both graded PSA 5. One is the old label the other newly graded. One has scratches all over the surface and has color rubbed off the front, the other is similar except for the surface, and yet they both have the same grade??
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Old 11-06-2018, 08:43 PM   #17
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Are you trolling or do you want the real answer? PSA has gotten stricter over time, but they've always judged harshly when they detect a surface wrinkle you can only see on the back.
Are these in your possession? It's quite possible some of those scratches are on the case, not the card.
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Old 11-06-2018, 10:20 PM   #18
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Are you trolling or do you want the real answer? PSA has gotten stricter over time, but they've always judged harshly when they detect a surface wrinkle you can only see on the back.
Are these in your possession? It's quite possible some of those scratches are on the case, not the card.
I donít troll and donít see how that could be perceived as trolling???

Yeah these are my cards. I bought quite a few 1956 in PSA 5 grade and couldnít believe how much worse the #1 card was. When I saw members stating that older labels had easier standards these card came to mind.

Those scratches you see on the #1 card are on the card, not the holder. The #1 is obviously worse than the other, it has an old label and the other is new, so....
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Old 11-06-2018, 10:22 PM   #19
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Ok, thanks for the clarification. This topic gets beat to death, so I expect trolling.
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Old 11-07-2018, 01:06 AM   #20
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Absolutely write off anyone who says that BGS is tougher on surface. They have no idea what they are talking about.
Agreed. I think people read a wrong or outdated opinion and then it gets repeated ad nauseum until it becomes hobby "fact." The myth of BGS being tougher than PSA on surface is just that, myth.

I do, however, think BGS does a better job in properly labeling modern variations, parallels, and the like. PSA is improving in this area recently.
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Old 11-07-2018, 01:51 PM   #21
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I think the perception of PSA getting easier is because there is more of a shift in modern cards coming to them--and most modern cards are great shots at 10s. I don't think they are getting easier, just getting more modern pack fresh 10s. They still grade cards the same as they always have.
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Old 11-07-2018, 08:36 PM   #22
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The correct answer is nether, and I learned that from this board. Donít like the grade, crack resub, magically comes back a different grade. There was a Brady that jumped from a psa 7 to a 10. Unless Harry Potter was involved thatís a neat trick. Iíve seen bgs do the same crap. Thatís just counting resubmitting to the same company. Jump between the two and goddess only knows whatíll happen. All just seams like the same game of Russian roulette that ripping wax is anymore. First you pray you pull the good rookies then you pray for 10s. But it might take 3 tries for them to say itís a 10.
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:18 AM   #23
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The correct answer is nether, and I learned that from this board. Don’t like the grade, crack resub, magically comes back a different grade. There was a Brady that jumped from a psa 7 to a 10. Unless Harry Potter was involved that’s a neat trick. I’ve seen bgs do the same crap. That’s just counting resubmitting to the same company. Jump between the two and goddess only knows what’ll happen. All just seams like the same game of Russian roulette that ripping wax is anymore. First you pray you pull the good rookies then you pray for 10s. But it might take 3 tries for them to say it’s a 10.

Try basing this off experience instead of seeing only the "good" experiences on a limited forum. It's like the COMC flipping thread - they dont tell you how many failed or came back the same or how many they can actually see why it got the grade it did and decided not to try it.

Also like people saying they're easier on grading or hand out 9.5s and 10s like candy. They base that off the results they see and fail to know the steps taken to get those results. Yes 95% of my 100 card order was 10s but what you dont know is I bought 200 cards to pick out those 100. Send in 100 cards you pulled straight from a pack and I guarantee you'll be disappointed in the results.
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Old 11-08-2018, 09:21 AM   #24
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Try basing this off experience instead of seeing only the "good" experiences on a limited forum. It's like the COMC flipping thread - they dont tell you how many failed or came back the same or how many they can actually see why it got the grade it did and decided not to try it.
Oh I can also pull up hundreds of examples of grades going south, thatís my point, zero consistency. Even within their own companies. Until they fix that, itís just whatever one grader said on one day whose results may or may not be duplicated if tried again. I fail to see why anyone would pay for that. But itís not my money. Grade every card you own. Iím not paying for it.
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Old 11-09-2018, 09:33 AM   #25
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Oh I can also pull up hundreds of examples of grades going south, thatís my point, zero consistency. Even within their own companies. Until they fix that, itís just whatever one grader said on one day whose results may or may not be duplicated if tried again. I fail to see why anyone would pay for that. But itís not my money. Grade every card you own. Iím not paying for it.
How can you have consistancy when damage or lack there of isnt consistent? How can you have consistancy when its humans looking at it and judging it? How would they fix that? Anything from 0-1 millimeter is a 10, 1-3 millimeters is a 9? Then how do you justify a 0.9 millimeter flaw getting a 10 but a 1.1 millimeter flaw gets a 9? You get a 2nd opinion from doctors, mechanics, plumbers, builders, almost everything in life. Nothing is consistent in life. Everything is different based on their opinion. So why wouldn't grading? Especially since no 2 damaged cards are exactly the same.
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