Impact on kneeling - Page 5

RonimusPrime · 10-26-2017, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgisback

So free speech is a one way street?

No, free speech goes all ways, but demand of censorship is an inherently unamerican practice.

pgisback · 10-26-2017, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonimusPrime

No, free speech goes all ways, but demand of censorship is an inherently unamerican practice.

As long as the government isn't using force to censor them, I'd imagine libertarians would not care what the employer, customers, or players do. They're all free to do what they want. Customers can complain, employers can fire, players can find a new job.

green4407 · 10-26-2017, 04:39 PM

https://sports.yahoo.com/steelers-ic...182928379.html

At least Rocky Bleier has common sense:

“It’s very simply this: This is a workplace, you are at the stadium, you are working that day, this is not a platform for protest,” Bleier told Yahoo Sports. “The American people, they can’t go to their workplace and start to protest about whatever may be happening in their life. That wouldn’t be allowed and that shouldn’t be allowed in the NFL.

“It’s not a violation of the First Amendment at all. You have off days, you can do it outside of the stadium or on other platforms, but not the gameday platform. It’s a very simple question and people are making it more complex than it really is.”

pgisback · 10-26-2017, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by green4407

https://sports.yahoo.com/steelers-ic...182928379.html

At least Rocky Bleier has common sense:

“It’s very simply this: This is a workplace, you are at the stadium, you are working that day, this is not a platform for protest,” Bleier told Yahoo Sports. “The American people, they can’t go to their workplace and start to protest about whatever may be happening in their life. That wouldn’t be allowed and that shouldn’t be allowed in the NFL.

“It’s not a violation of the First Amendment at all. You have off days, you can do it outside of the stadium or on other platforms, but not the gameday platform. It’s a very simple question and people are making it more complex than it really is.”

Smart man. It is very simple. The people who support it have to jump through all sorts of hoops instead of just saying they hate Trump or agree with the message so they support it. Because let’s be honest if it was for an issue the PC crowd didn’t like, they’d put an end to it. Heck the NFL immediately denounced Cam for a simple joke towards a woman about routes.

The NBA suspended a player for not standing. Had to agree to stand but was allowed to put his head down.

RonimusPrime · 10-26-2017, 11:23 PM

My initial post was attempting to tackle this from a third side that lined with neither the right or the left reasons for this, but here's the subjective skinny, honestly. Firing someone based on political speech is admittedly technically not a first amendment thing, but it smacks of McCarthyism in the worst way. It's a slippery slope issue and that makes me very nervous, both as a libertarian and as a movie nut who knows how badly McCarthyism hit that industry- and a lot of innocent people- I can't in good conscience say allowing such a thing is something I could ever approve of.

rman112 · 10-27-2017, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonimusPrime

My initial post was attempting to tackle this from a third side that lined with neither the right or the left reasons for this, but here's the subjective skinny, honestly. Firing someone based on political speech is admittedly technically not a first amendment thing, but it smacks of McCarthyism in the worst way. It's a slippery slope issue and that makes me very nervous, both as a libertarian and as a movie nut who knows how badly McCarthyism hit that industry- and a lot of innocent people- I can't in good conscience say allowing such a thing is something I could ever approve of.

What are you saying? Anything goes?

To take a specific example to my last post: NFL player kneels, says it's in protest of some guy that (undoubtedly) killed 10 people being in jail. OK with you?

rman112 · 10-27-2017, 01:07 AM

Also, if you're nervous about anything re: films, it should be that Hollywood is nearing the tipping point of all it's perverts being outed.

preakness · 10-27-2017, 06:37 AM

Kneeling has done zero to improve any of the issues in society

pgisback · 10-27-2017, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonimusPrime

My initial post was attempting to tackle this from a third side that lined with neither the right or the left reasons for this, but here's the subjective skinny, honestly. Firing someone based on political speech is admittedly technically not a first amendment thing, but it smacks of McCarthyism in the worst way. It's a slippery slope issue and that makes me very nervous, both as a libertarian and as a movie nut who knows how badly McCarthyism hit that industry- and a lot of innocent people- I can't in good conscience say allowing such a thing is something I could ever approve of.

That's an opinion, I just don't see how this is a libertarian opinion. Over the years the libertarians I've talked to are the most extreme pro employer group I've seen. Everything from being able to deny service to anyone they want, hire anyone they want, pay them whatever they want, use whatever currency they want, etc. But they can't tell an employee to stand for the national anthem or be fired. That doesn't add up.

pgisback · 10-27-2017, 06:24 PM

... nvm

bmac56 · 10-28-2017, 11:50 AM

Here's a thought...

How about teams stay inside the locker room during the anthem, like they had before 2009. They only reason they are on the field now is because the owners wanted the league to appear more patriotic, and perhaps to get some of that sweet cash from the Department of Defense, which has obviously and hilariously backfired.

HeadstrongRSS · 10-28-2017, 11:59 AM

Is forced patriotism what we really want?

This whole thing has some "We allow you to make money off us whites, and we don't agree with you, so you must adhere to our demands. Now, dance for us, monkeys" type of icky feeling to take, especially with my obvious societal advantages (white, middle class male).

pingbling23 · 10-28-2017, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadstrongRSS

Is forced patriotism what we really want?

This whole thing has some "We allow you to make money off us whites, and we don't agree with you, so you must adhere to our demands. Now, dance for us, monkeys" type of icky feeling to take, especially with my obvious societal advantages (white, middle class male).

I don't see that at all. I see people that care about their brand image not wanting it to be spoiled by a disrespectful act.

pgisback · 10-28-2017, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmac56

Here's a thought...

How about teams stay inside the locker room during the anthem, like they had before 2009. They only reason they are on the field now is because the owners wanted the league to appear more patriotic, and perhaps to get some of that sweet cash from the Department of Defense, which has obviously and hilariously backfired.

That was only for primetime games and they were only in the lockers/tunnel because networks wanted them due to their scheduling. Had nothing to do with the NFL or DoD.

pgisback · 10-28-2017, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeadstrongRSS

Is forced patriotism what we really want?

This whole thing has some "We allow you to make money off us whites, and we don't agree with you, so you must adhere to our demands. Now, dance for us, monkeys" type of icky feeling to take, especially with my obvious societal advantages (white, middle class male).

Before the anthem they even tell you... please rise, remove your hats, and join us as we honor America and the men and women of the armed services. This has gone on for decades without any problem... since it's ridiculous that anyone would object to that, lol.

jdandns · 10-29-2017, 11:35 AM

The protests will never end just because people who have no sympathy for those protesting and who don't deem their issues valid demand they should. Indeed, that's the fuel that keeps the protest fires burning. Easier to just put yourselves in others shoes and ask for the same redress of the grievance at hand. If there is a wrong being committed, help right it. If there is no wrong being committed that will also revealed, and those having needlessly protested can be called to account for their true purpose in agitating. Less energy expended that way, and if unintended consequences from any changes you've participated in bringing result in something you don't like, you can always protest that. Those calling for justice tend to be rewarded, although it often takes a long time.

Verufian · 10-29-2017, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgisback

That was only for primetime games and they were only in the lockers/tunnel because networks wanted them due to their scheduling. Had nothing to do with the NFL or DoD.

Ok...so the date of this is a coincidence?

https://www.mccain.senate.gov/public...ght-report.pdf

pgisback · 10-29-2017, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verufian

Ok...so the date of this is a coincidence?

https://www.mccain.senate.gov/public...ght-report.pdf

What coincidence?

Verufian · 10-29-2017, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgisback

What coincidence?

That the players started standing on the field once the DoD and NFL started their paid advertisement agreement?

pgisback · 10-29-2017, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verufian

That the players started standing on the field once the DoD and NFL started their paid advertisement agreement?

That only happened for prime time games. Networks had players stay in tunnel/locker because of their scheduling. The DoD thought it would be a good idea to have the players out because of the audience primetime games got. That lasted 4 years and the NFL continued it on their dime. All other games, were normal and players were out on the field for the anthem.

Regardless, the fact you think it's a big deal that the DoD wants some advertising/patriotism for our military during a game which many boys/men watch, is hilarious.

Verufian · 10-29-2017, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgisback

That only happened for prime time games. Networks had players stay in tunnel/locker because of their scheduling. The DoD thought it would be a good idea to have the players out because of the audience primetime games got. That lasted 4 years and the NFL continued it on their dime. All other games, were normal and players were out on the field for the anthem.

Regardless, the fact you think it's a big deal that the DoD wants some advertising/patriotism for our military during a game which many boys/men watch, is hilarious.

Did I say that??

3of5-2 · 10-30-2017, 10:31 PM

Just had Beckett do a RCR show this past Saturday, and I questioned the Beckett rep if the kneeling issue had any affect on grading submissions. He said that at this show, there were very few NFL cards submitted for grading, mostly baseball and some basketball. He would neither confirm or deny if it has affected submissions company wide, but I would believe that it has.

pgisback · 10-31-2017, 02:20 PM

Please don't be true. Last thing I want is the league to sign this cop hating commie who started this whole anti-American nonsense.

"Colin Kaepernick could possibly be signed by an NFL team this week. According to Kapernick’s attorney, Mark Geragos, the quarterback could get his shot to play again."

https://rollingout.com/2017/10/31/co...k-lawyer-says/

Siberian13 · 10-31-2017, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pgisback

Please don't be true. Last thing I want is the league to sign this cop hating commie who started this whole anti-American nonsense.

"Colin Kaepernick could possibly be signed by an NFL team this week. According to Kapernick’s attorney, Mark Geragos, the quarterback could get his shot to play again."

https://rollingout.com/2017/10/31/co...k-lawyer-says/

Come on patriots!!! Do it!!!

pgisback · 10-31-2017, 03:51 PM

Frikkin Jadeveon Clowney gets to dress up as a prisoner for Halloween. So lucky. If anyone else does that, they'd be called racist.

10-26-2017, 11:23 PM	#105
RonimusPrime Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 122 moviebuff2014 RonimusPrime	My initial post was attempting to tackle this from a third side that lined with neither the right or the left reasons for this, but here's the subjective skinny, honestly. Firing someone based on political speech is admittedly technically not a first amendment thing, but it smacks of McCarthyism in the worst way. It's a slippery slope issue and that makes me very nervous, both as a libertarian and as a movie nut who knows how badly McCarthyism hit that industry- and a lot of innocent people- I can't in good conscience say allowing such a thing is something I could ever approve of. Last edited by RonimusPrime; 10-26-2017 at 11:27 PM.

10-27-2017, 06:24 PM	#110
pgisback Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Seattle Posts: 21,023	... nvm Last edited by pgisback; 10-27-2017 at 06:33 PM.

10-28-2017, 11:50 AM	#111
bmac56 Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Elsinore Brewery Posts: 213 bmcdonald1976 bmac56	Here's a thought... How about teams stay inside the locker room during the anthem, like they had before 2009. They only reason they are on the field now is because the owners wanted the league to appear more patriotic, and perhaps to get some of that sweet cash from the Department of Defense, which has obviously and hilariously backfired. __________________ Collecting Chargers

10-29-2017, 11:35 AM	#116
jdandns Member Join Date: May 2015 Location: Southern California Posts: 20,476	The protests will never end just because people who have no sympathy for those protesting and who don't deem their issues valid demand they should. Indeed, that's the fuel that keeps the protest fires burning. Easier to just put yourselves in others shoes and ask for the same redress of the grievance at hand. If there is a wrong being committed, help right it. If there is no wrong being committed that will also revealed, and those having needlessly protested can be called to account for their true purpose in agitating. Less energy expended that way, and if unintended consequences from any changes you've participated in bringing result in something you don't like, you can always protest that. Those calling for justice tend to be rewarded, although it often takes a long time. __________________ A woman in the moon is singing to the earth.

10-26-2017, 04:39 PM	#103
green4407 Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: NorCal Posts: 1,427 greensupplies530 green4407	https://sports.yahoo.com/steelers-ic...182928379.html At least Rocky Bleier has common sense: “It’s very simply this: This is a workplace, you are at the stadium, you are working that day, this is not a platform for protest,” Bleier told Yahoo Sports. “The American people, they can’t go to their workplace and start to protest about whatever may be happening in their life. That wouldn’t be allowed and that shouldn’t be allowed in the NFL. “It’s not a violation of the First Amendment at all. You have off days, you can do it outside of the stadium or on other platforms, but not the gameday platform. It’s a very simple question and people are making it more complex than it really is.”

10-27-2017, 01:07 AM	#107
rman112 Banned Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Freedom is Free Again Posts: 40,953	Also, if you're nervous about anything re: films, it should be that Hollywood is nearing the tipping point of all it's perverts being outed.

10-27-2017, 06:37 AM	#108
preakness Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: In Johnny Ryno's soul Posts: 21,077	Kneeling has done zero to improve any of the issues in society

10-28-2017, 11:59 AM	#112
HeadstrongRSS Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: WI Posts: 1,390 HeadstrongRSS HeadstrongRSS	Is forced patriotism what we really want? This whole thing has some "We allow you to make money off us whites, and we don't agree with you, so you must adhere to our demands. Now, dance for us, monkeys" type of icky feeling to take, especially with my obvious societal advantages (white, middle class male).

10-30-2017, 10:31 PM	#122
3of5-2 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 987	Just had Beckett do a RCR show this past Saturday, and I questioned the Beckett rep if the kneeling issue had any affect on grading submissions. He said that at this show, there were very few NFL cards submitted for grading, mostly baseball and some basketball. He would neither confirm or deny if it has affected submissions company wide, but I would believe that it has.

10-31-2017, 02:20 PM	#123
pgisback Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Seattle Posts: 21,023	Please don't be true. Last thing I want is the league to sign this cop hating commie who started this whole anti-American nonsense. "Colin Kaepernick could possibly be signed by an NFL team this week. According to Kapernick’s attorney, Mark Geragos, the quarterback could get his shot to play again." https://rollingout.com/2017/10/31/co...k-lawyer-says/

10-31-2017, 03:51 PM	#125
pgisback Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Seattle Posts: 21,023	Frikkin Jadeveon Clowney gets to dress up as a prisoner for Halloween. So lucky. If anyone else does that, they'd be called racist.