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Old 04-13-2015, 01:11 PM   #576
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bro, the NFL just had a banner year for player conduct (sarcasm) and tons of domestic abuse cases. Attendance/viewership didn't drop because of them.

whatever fantasy world you are living in must have some awesome drugs.
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Old 04-13-2015, 01:23 PM   #577
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Panini made the NFL very rich by paying for the exclusivity deal. You think they give a #@#@#@#@ what Panini does?
Panini didn't make the NFL rich. The trading card deal is a drop in the bucket.
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Old 04-13-2015, 01:27 PM   #578
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Panini didn't make the NFL rich. The trading card deal is a drop in the bucket.
^^^this is very very true. The Panini deal is nothing compared to the NFL's TV deal with just Directv for NFL Sunday ticket. The funny thing about football cards is that it is at a funny place right now. In terms of opening boxes it seems to have the weakest return, compared to basketball and baseball. But football is more popular in terms of tv ratings than basketball and baseball. Funny how popularity does not always equal money in this hobby.
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Old 04-13-2015, 01:30 PM   #579
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bro, the NFL just had a banner year for player conduct (sarcasm) and tons of domestic abuse cases. Attendance/viewership didn't drop because of them.

.
But just like those things damaged the NFL's reputation.. so does this for those of us who collect their product - which enables the NFL to sell their card licenses for so much money.
If Panini does such damage to card collectors... over time.. do you think that any other company will want to pay such future monies for a license knowing that Panini single-handledly destroyed the card-collecting landscape - by alienating so many people willing to spend money on this and many other NFL based merchandise.
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Old 04-13-2015, 01:34 PM   #580
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Don't let how many have shown up on eBay be your guide to how many have been packed out or hit. I have been chasing a Jordy Nelson non-1/1 rainbow for 2014 Prizm since it came out, and I have seen a whopping one of the Wal-mart blue prizms that I won and just appeared at the end of March, which you would think would be extremely common compared to the Gold (which I've also only seen one, which I own). Does that mean that they didn't pack out Jordy Nelson blue Prizms, or does that mean that those that have found it aren't putting it on eBay?
Walmart blues are tough as hell. In basketball there are players that never surfaced
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Old 04-13-2015, 01:35 PM   #581
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I hate the whole group breaking thing. It's bad for the hobby. People are mad at Panini, but most of those complaining are just trying to make a huge profit.
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Old 04-13-2015, 01:39 PM   #582
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I hate the whole group breaking thing. It's bad for the hobby. People are mad at Panini, but most of those complaining are just trying to make a huge profit.
The only ones who really make money in group breaking are the group breakers themselves.....not the participants. A lot of times, the breakers will offer to buy the cards back from the participants and basically "double dip" their profits.
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Old 04-13-2015, 01:41 PM   #583
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Originally Posted by jr24ai3 View Post
Panini didn't make the NFL rich. The trading card deal is a drop in the bucket.
good point.


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Originally Posted by Hardcore View Post
But just like those things damaged the NFL's reputation.. so does this for those of us who collect their product - which enables the NFL to sell their card licenses for so much money.
If Panini does such damage to card collectors... over time.. do you think that any other company will want to pay such future monies for a license knowing that Panini single-handledly destroyed the card-collecting landscape - by alienating so many people willing to spend money on this and many other NFL based merchandise.

see above- panini is a drop in the bucket. the NFL won't care. You'll stop collecting before you stop watching, so will everyone else.
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Old 04-13-2015, 01:43 PM   #584
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Apparently Panini held a concall with their distributors last week saying that both Odell and Bridgewater RPA's are "in the product". Very similar to the email that started this thread. Obviously they could still be in the product while not yet being released in the first wave. I have two sealed cases I am sitting on with zero desire to open. This is the last case I open of Panini product.
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Old 04-13-2015, 01:47 PM   #585
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good point.

see above- panini is a drop in the bucket. the NFL won't care. You'll stop collecting before you stop watching, so will everyone else.
They'll care if they feel Panini is hurting their brand.

And if they get enough angry emails/tweets, that's exactly what they will think. This is how things change.

You know when a politician changes his position on something? When enough people call and write his office that he has no choice but to change in order to keep their constituents happy.

Same thing goes for businesses.
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Old 04-13-2015, 01:50 PM   #586
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Apparently Panini held a concall with their distributors last week saying that both Odell and Bridgewater RPA's are "in the product". Very similar to the email that started this thread. Obviously they could still be in the product while not yet being released in the first wave. I have two sealed cases I am sitting on with zero desire to open. This is the last case I open of Panini product.
I believe it's in the product. And they technically are if they are in the supposed '2nd wave'. Still doesn't give any resolve to the situation or change anything.
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:22 PM   #587
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The only ones who really make money in group breaking are the group breakers themselves.....not the participants. A lot of times, the breakers will offer to buy the cards back from the participants and basically "double dip" their profits.
lol this doesnt happen near as much as youre making it seem. in fact i cant remember the last time thats ever happened.

i like how its now the group breakers fault for whatever panini is doing, they must love how we turn on ourselves to point blame.

if group breakers didnt exist how many people would otherwise shell out 450$ for a box of cards? personally ive never spent that much on a single box and probabably never will.

all those nice singles that hit ebay that you only want to pay 10-15 dollars per rpa for outta national treasures, yeah you can thank group breakers.

without breaking product your singles market would dismal, not sure why people seem to forget that when they demonize group breakers.
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:29 PM   #588
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lol this doesnt happen near as much as youre making it seem. in fact i cant remember the last time thats ever happened.

i like how its now the group breakers fault for whatever panini is doing, they must love how we turn on ourselves to point blame.

if group breakers didnt exist how many people would otherwise shell out 450$ for a box of cards? personally ive never spent that much on a single box and probabably never will.

all those nice singles that hit ebay that you only want to pay 10-15 dollars per rpa for outta national treasures, yeah you can thank group breakers.

without breaking product your singles market would dismal, not sure why people seem to forget that when they demonize group breakers.

The singles market is dismal in the sense that card values are down the drain except for a few people.

It's gotten to the point where the amount of collectors (i.e. people who actually will keep some cards, not simply rip and flip) is dropping.

Easier to find cards, but it's not that simple. I'll gladly take the 'harder to find' route if it meant cards had more value and it added to the chase.

You don't even have to open one case/box/pack to try and complete a set nowadays.
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:31 PM   #589
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Originally Posted by Irish View Post
lol this doesnt happen near as much as youre making it seem. in fact i cant remember the last time thats ever happened.

i like how its now the group breakers fault for whatever panini is doing, they must love how we turn on ourselves to point blame.

if group breakers didnt exist how many people would otherwise shell out 450$ for a box of cards? personally ive never spent that much on a single box and probabably never will.

all those nice singles that hit ebay that you only want to pay 10-15 dollars per rpa for outta national treasures, yeah you can thank group breakers.

without breaking product your singles market would dismal, not sure why people seem to forget that when they demonize group breakers.
They are the exact reason the prices are this high.
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:41 PM   #590
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I too was involved in some NT case breaks in STL this last weekend. I saw 9 cases opened. Not a single RPA of Teddy or OBJ. some hats off/or nfl gear, etc...but no RPAs. its not coincidence that cases are busted nationwide, and not a single one has hit the market anywhere.

Panini is screwing its customers, and the OP is spot on.
This is a very high end product, and Id be pissed if I had the giants in multiple breaks (at the cost they go for) and not a single one hit for me, nor seen ANYONE/ANYWHERE get one,.... and then add the response he received from Panini. Its bush.
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:42 PM   #591
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lol this doesnt happen near as much as youre making it seem. in fact i cant remember the last time thats ever happened.

i like how its now the group breakers fault for whatever panini is doing, they must love how we turn on ourselves to point blame.

if group breakers didnt exist how many people would otherwise shell out 450$ for a box of cards? personally ive never spent that much on a single box and probabably never will.

all those nice singles that hit ebay that you only want to pay 10-15 dollars per rpa for outta national treasures, yeah you can thank group breakers.

without breaking product your singles market would dismal, not sure why people seem to forget that when they demonize group breakers.
It is not group breakers fault. It is how group breaker business mask the mistake from the card company.

And you clearly mix up with problem. It is because of group break business, you can still put a $450 price tag with $10 RPA and $2 GU.
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:45 PM   #592
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They are the exact reason the prices are this high.
I love that everyone just blames everyone else.

Let's follow the money as we look at just how amusing it is that you're putting all the blame on group breakers.

Panini makes the cards and sells them to distributors who then can sell those to group breakers.

Group breakers can only be successful if they then fill those group breaks.

So it's actually the people filling the group breaks right?

Well maybe not. If the perception of people who join group breaks is correct, and only gamblers and flippers join them (not saying those don't exist by any means, but perhaps not in the percentage people think) then those people can only be successful if they can then sell those cards.

So ultimately if you have ever bought a card made by Panini realistically you are just as much to blame as anyone else because you are the final stop. You are the one that actually causes the success of everyone above you and no one from the people who join group breaks to the distributors to Panini themselves would be able to sell their product if there was no end buyer.
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:46 PM   #593
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Bravo for taking the time to bring your concerns to the NFL but do you think that they will actually care about things that happened before the implementation of the exclusive. The Sticker auto line made me giggle.

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For what its worth, letter sent to the NFL via NFL.com explaining the current situation with Panini and linking several of the posts on the boards here. Doubt a response is forthcoming anytime soon, but would be interested if they heard from enough collectors, if that would generate a response.

Good Morning

I wanted to bring to your attention a matter concerning one of your partners, Panini America. I am an avid NFL supporter and am also a big collector of NFL sports cards and Memorabilia. In July, 2014, it was announced that the NFL had granted Panini America an exclusive license to manufacture sports cards for them. This was met with a collective groan from the collector public for many reasons, including their less than stellar customer service on many occasions when serving collectors (Long delays in response time as an example), a high level of sticker autographs in their product (2014 National Treasures and others), issues with product not using game worn materials as originally advertised and stated on their cards (2014 Flawless Football and others), using fake diamonds on their cards when it was advertised that these were indeed to be real diamonds (2014 Flawless Football), and now their latest debacle, the exclusion of the two top Rookies for collectors, Odell Beckham Jr. and Teddy Bridgewater, in their flagship product, 2014 National Treasures. With the expiration of licenses for Topps on the near horizon and the current fact that Upper Deck does not have an NFL license (Another gripe amongst some collectors), we as collectors are going to be stuck with a company that has proven time and time again that they put their economic standing ahead of ensuring that we the collector are being properly taken care of. There are many stories on the Sports card blog sites and I have included a link regarding the most recent fiasco concerning Panini for you to review so you can understand exactly what collectors are being forced to deal with. It is my hope, that even though I am just one collector, that this will bring some attention to this matter and that something can be done to bring resolution to the matter if the NFL indeed decides to honor their contract with Panini. I spend approximately 15-20k annually as a private collector on sports cards, but feel I may reconsider if this is the expectation going forward, and I believe that many other collectors feel much the same.

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/f...t-debacle.html

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/f...-question.html

http://www.blowoutcards.com/forums/f...all-break.html

Thank you for your time and I look forward to your response,

Brad Mrazek
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:54 PM   #594
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My biggest fear is this....that this is a sign of things to come when the exclusive license kicks in. I love collecting, but I am fearful what happens to this hobby in the next 5 years if we end up stuck with an unimproved or steadily getting worse Panini. We need a Toops or Upper Deck to provide options and competition. Case breakers have no doubt driven up the initial prices of cases, but I am hard pressed to put all this on them. This topic is about a Panini issue and nothing else. They need to address and they need to be clean going forward or the football card hobby will change for the worse. Let's hope some people that matter in this hobby are taking note of posts like this and by all means, voice your concerns at The National.
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:54 PM   #595
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Originally Posted by Irish View Post
lol this doesnt happen near as much as youre making it seem. in fact i cant remember the last time thats ever happened.

i like how its now the group breakers fault for whatever panini is doing, they must love how we turn on ourselves to point blame.

if group breakers didnt exist how many people would otherwise shell out 450$ for a box of cards? personally ive never spent that much on a single box and probabably never will.

all those nice singles that hit ebay that you only want to pay 10-15 dollars per rpa for outta national treasures, yeah you can thank group breakers.

without breaking product your singles market would dismal, not sure why people seem to forget that when they demonize group breakers.
Not sure anyone is "demonizing" the breakers themselves. There are negatives to group breaking however. Just like there are positives. Not sure how the market would be "dismal" There would be less singles yes, but in turn the ones out theres value would go up. If so much product wasn't being broken by group breakers it would force companies to try and make better products. Group breaking does allow more people to participate in the hobby which is a good thing in some ways. In other ways it makes those participating greedy and only in the hobby to flip for profit just so they can join more group breaks.

I honestly hope the card world crashes and burns like the baseball card world did back in the late 80's early 90's. Either it dies completely or something better comes from the ashes.
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:55 PM   #596
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Bravo for taking the time to bring your concerns to the NFL but do you think that they will actually care about things that happened before the implementation of the exclusive. The Sticker auto line made me giggle.
They may not care what happened before the exclusive but they better care about what happens after it kicks in
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:56 PM   #597
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It is not group breakers fault. It is how group breaker business mask the mistake from the card company.

And you clearly mix up with problem. It is because of group break business, you can still put a $450 price tag with $10 RPA and $2 GU.
Exquisite has been around long before group breaking was popular, theres still the issue of blaming the collector for the product issues, if obj or teddy was in the product none of this would be an issue, if everyone didnt think of nt squizz was the fun high end product it is, it wouldnt last. And then what? I dont remember seeing these kinda threads last year about the same products. Youre pointing the blame at the people for the companies short comings kinda like blaming the buyer for buying a brand new car thats a lemon.
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Old 04-13-2015, 02:58 PM   #598
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I haven't seen a Bridgewater booklet redemp either.
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Old 04-13-2015, 03:00 PM   #599
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Not sure anyone is "demonizing" the breakers themselves. There are negatives to group breaking however. Just like there are positives. Not sure how the market would be "dismal" There would be less singles yes, but in turn the ones out theres value would go up. If so much product wasn't being broken by group breakers it would force companies to try and make better products. Group breaking does allow more people to participate in the hobby which is a good thing in some ways. In other ways it makes those participating greedy and only in the hobby to flip for profit just so they can join more group breaks.

I honestly hope the card world crashes and burns like the baseball card world did back in the late 80's early 90's. Either it dies completely or something better comes from the ashes.
Why on earth would you want to the hobby to die? If theres a problem fix it but I would hate to see the hobby die like that I love this hobby it has faults but so does any hobby. Personal greed among breakers isnt really something a company can help, if opening up wax is there hobby and it means more cards hit the second market I dont see how its a bad thing.
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Old 04-13-2015, 03:00 PM   #600
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Exquisite has been around long before group breaking was popular, theres still the issue of blaming the collector for the product issues, if obj or teddy was in the product none of this would be an issue, if everyone didnt think of nt squizz was the fun high end product it is, it wouldnt last. And then what? I dont remember seeing these kinda threads last year about the same products. Youre pointing the blame at the people for the companies short comings kinda like blaming the buyer for buying a brand new car thats a lemon.
Please re-read the post. I clearly state this is not a group break fault. It is the nature of the business that mask Panini's mistake.
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