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Old 07-14-2018, 09:29 PM   #151
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Originally Posted by KhalDrogo View Post
When was this? And did they charge you?
They did not charge me and sent back in a holder with a sticker that stated something about being graded previously. I am not sure that is was new.. I know nobody will probably admit cracking and resending I n then admitting they received back a non graded card. I did resell raw since I had no idea what it was originally graded.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:43 PM   #152
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thanks to this thread, i picked up a BGS 8!

should i crack and resell?
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:50 PM   #153
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Haha...this was an interesting thread, but everybody sort of hijacked it from OP.

i'm sure some of this will be revisited in a future thread.

Haha thanks. Yeah the thread definitely went askew and has been quite interesting and enjoyable. Kinda funny, but I was thinking from a collecting point mainly.

Sure cracking and selling or cracking and collecting and selling can be shady or not depending on ones morals (and self-justification / right or wrong)

However pertaining to collecting and someone who collects graded cards...I check POP reports. And if I see a report of 15-9s and 4-10s. It sucks that I canít tell if those 9s were cracked and resubmitted or if there are actually 15. Heck there could be 4-9s and they were cracked and resubmitted that many times over until the 4-10s were achieved with no 9s left in existence! This is why it sucks for the hobby when collecting graded cards with a POP report in mind.

Pretty happy this thread started some passionate discussions. In no means will I expect anyone to not crack or crack slabs from it, but it might create a couple second thoughts out there.

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Old 07-14-2018, 09:51 PM   #154
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thanks to this thread, i picked up a BGS 8!

should i crack and resell?
Crack and resub to BGS. You know deep down inside you have always wanted to send cards to them!
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:57 PM   #155
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The issue is very simple and the logic you guys are using is the same logic people who trim cards or swap patches use. You have information about a card that the buyer doesn't. You can share that information or withhold it. Withholding information from buyers to me is a sketchy practice. How you want to justify withholding information from a buyer is up to you, but it does not change the fact you have information that a buyer doesn't and you're not letting the buyer know intentionally. Which is sketchy.

I dont understand how you are withholding information if you are giving pictures and saying its nrmt-mt, infact you are not withholding anything, you are telling them exactly what the card is. If you sell the card raw whether its graded or not you have an opinion if it would gem mint or not. In fact most people that send in cards reguarly are almost as good if not better than a so called "professional grader " So basically you are saying you should be selling it saying, its a really nice card, but in my opinion would grade as a bgs mint 9. If that is what you are saying at least you are consistent, but a very small percentage of people do that so you are basically calling everyone shady and sketchy.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:59 PM   #156
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I dont understand how you are withholding information if you are giving pictures and saying its nrmt-mt, infact you are not withholding anything, you are telling them exactly what the card is. If you sell the card raw whether its graded or not you have an opinion if it would gem mint or not. In fact most people that send in cards reguarly are almost as good if not better than a so called "professional grader " So basically you are saying you should be selling it saying, its a really nice card, but in my opinion would grade as a bgs mint 9. If that is what you are saying at least you are consistent, but a very small percentage of people do that so you are basically calling everyone shady and sketchy.
You can justify it however you want. Itís very very easy to tell a buyer you cracked it out of a slab and what the grade was. One of the more simple things you can do.
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:04 PM   #157
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Haha thanks. Yeah the thread definitely went askew and has been quite interesting and enjoyable. Kinda funny, but I was thinking from a collecting point mainly.

Sure cracking and selling or cracking and collecting and selling can be shady or not depending on ones morals (and self-justification / right or wrong)

However pertaining to collecting and someone who collects graded cards...I check POP reports. And if I see a report of 15-9s and 4-10s. It sucks that I canít tell if those 9s were cracked and resubmitted or if there are actually 15. Heck there could be 4-9s and they were cracked and resubmitted that many times over until the 4-10s were achieved with no 9s left in existence! This is why it sucks for the hobby when collecting graded cards with a POP report in mind.


Pretty happy this thread started some passionate discussions. In no means will I expect anyone to not crack or crack slabs from it, but it might create a couple second thoughts out there.
welcome back OP... lol
I have always though that Pop reports just create an illusion of a scarcer (pricier/more desirable) card than is actually the fact. i can see value in slabs for vintage, but doing it for most of this new, common stuff is ridiculous imo
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:11 PM   #158
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welcome back OP... lol

I have always though that Pop reports just create an illusion of a scarcer (pricier/more desirable) card than is actually the fact. i can see value in slabs for vintage, but doing it for most of this new, common stuff is ridiculous imo

Haha...thanks. Yes I can see your point on an illusion being created by a POP report with low figures on modern cards. Heck Iíve been sucked into that illusion. Just part of the game and another way for some collectors to feel special.
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Old 07-14-2018, 10:38 PM   #159
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Haha...thanks. Yes I can see your point on an illusion being created by a POP report with low figures on modern cards. Heck Iíve been sucked into that illusion. Just part of the game and another way for some collectors to feel special.
you have a great attitude! thanx again for amusing & informative thread.
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Old 07-14-2018, 11:43 PM   #160
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You can justify it however you want. Itís very very easy to tell a buyer you cracked it out of a slab and what the grade was. One of the more simple things you can do.
Just curious, if you had a BGS 7 but can't figure out why it graded so low, and thought maybe it would grade much higher with PSA would you let PSA know it was previously graded a 7 by BGS when you submitted it?
I understand there's a difference between the buyer and the grader, but ethically is there a difference?

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Old 07-15-2018, 12:00 AM   #161
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Just curious, if you had a BGS 7 but can't figure out why it graded so low, and thought maybe it would grade much higher with PSA would you let PSA know it was previously graded a 7 by BGS when you submitted it?
I understand there's a difference between the buyer and the grader, but ethically is there a difference?

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PSA isn’t buying the card so yes there’s a huge ethical difference.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:16 AM   #162
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PSA isnít buying the card so yes thereís a huge ethical difference.
Okay, do you have to tell the buyer that the PSA 9 used to be a BGS 7?
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:23 AM   #163
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Okay, do you have to tell the buyer that the PSA 9 used to be a BGS 7?
You can, donít have to since itís been professionally graded by PSA and the buyer knows what theyíre getting.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:28 AM   #164
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You can, don’t have to since it’s been professionally graded by PSA and the buyer knows what they’re getting.
Allow yourself to quote yourself. What if the fact that the card used to be a 7 would impact the buyer's decision?

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You can justify it however you want. It’s very very easy to tell a buyer you cracked it out of a slab and what the grade was. One of the more simple things you can do.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:34 AM   #165
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Allow yourself to quote yourself. What if the fact that the card used to be a 7 would impact the buyer's decision?
If you want to be so strict with it that you feel in this situation a seller should tell a buyer this information, I wouldnít argue against that. I just donít think you need to tell a buyer a professionally graded card used to be another professionally graded card. The change in grade is between you and the professionals. You cutting a card out of a slab and selling it raw leaves the grading part out of it.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:39 AM   #166
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If you want to be so strict with it that you feel in this situation a seller should tell a buyer this information, I wouldn’t argue against that. I just don’t think you need to tell a buyer a professionally graded card used to be another professionally graded card. The change in grade is between you and the professionals. You cutting a card out of a slab and selling it raw leaves the grading part out of it.
You seem to have some hero worship for these graders, even if they miss by 2 full grades (or each by 1 grade). Just because the most recent grade is higher doesn't mean it's the correct one. You've been going on for pages about how it's dishonest to not disclose a former grade and telling people they can 'justify it however they want'. Apparently you can do the same.

For the record, I don't think it needs to be shared either, but after calling me sketchy, this doesn't seem to be consistent.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:51 AM   #167
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You seem to have some hero worship for these graders, even if they miss by 2 full grades (or each by 1 grade). Just because the most recent grade is higher doesn't mean it's the correct one. You've been going on for pages about how it's dishonest to not disclose a former grade and telling people they can 'justify it however they want'. Apparently you can do the same.

For the record, I don't think it needs to be shared either, but after calling me sketchy, this doesn't seem to be consistent.
No, you're just misunderstanding my point. I don't care about the accuracy of the grade or whether or not the graders are amateurs. Whether you like it or not the market places different values on cards graded by "professionals". So as a seller if you taking a professionally graded card and cracking them out and selling them raw you should let the buyer know that is what you did and what the grade of the slab was. That's the honest thing to do. Why you're arguing against being honest is beyond me. Even if you don't do it, I don't understand why you would argue against it, ha.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:57 AM   #168
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No, you're just misunderstanding my point. I don't care about the accuracy of the grade or whether or not the graders are amateurs. Whether you like it or not the market places different values on cards graded by "professionals". So as a seller if you taking a professionally graded card and cracking them out and selling them raw you should let the buyer know that is what you did and what the grade of the slab was. That's the honest thing to do. Why you're arguing against being honest is beyond me. Even if you don't do it, I don't understand why you would argue against it, ha.
That has nothing to do with what we were just talking about. Your initial stance is very clear, I don't need a 15th version of it. I just think it's odd that you are OK with withholding information in some cases only.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:03 AM   #169
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That has nothing to do with what we were just talking about. Your initial stance is very clear, I don't need a 15th version of it. I just think it's odd that you are OK with withholding information in some cases only.
All I'm saying is if I cut a card out of a BGS 9 slab, I would let the buyer know because it feels shady to not let them know. If I thought the grade was wrong, I would let them know that also or resubmit it to a grading company. If they agree with you, you're not withholding anything from the buyer, they are getting a card graded by the company they want. The fact you're arguing against honesty makes no sense. You guys make being honest seem like a bad thing, ha.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:07 AM   #170
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All I'm saying is if I cut a card out of a BGS 9 slab, I would let the buyer know because it feels shady to not let them know. If I thought the grade was wrong, I would let them know that also or resubmit it to a grading company. If they agree with you, you're not withholding anything from the buyer. The fact you're arguing against honesty makes no sense.
LOL, that is a joke, no one in this thread is arguing against honesty. I was done with that part of the conversation pages ago, but you keep trying to drag it back to that, so we can just call it good.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:08 AM   #171
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LOL, that is a joke, no one in this thread is arguing against honesty. I was done with that part of the conversation pages ago, but you keep trying to drag it back to that, so we can just call it good.
Then if you agree with me, what are you talking about?
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:10 AM   #172
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I crack them and then sell the cracked pieces. You get good money on the street for it.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:17 AM   #173
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Then if you agree with me, what are you talking about?
You know exactly what my point was, and you keep ignoring it to repeat the same stuff over and over again, so I'll let you do it with someone else.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:18 AM   #174
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You know exactly what my point was, and you keep ignoring it to repeat the same stuff over and over again, so I'll let you do it with someone else.
I honestly have no clue what your point is. If it's the example of cracking a case and resubmitting, I don't know what that has to do with selling a graded card as raw.
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Old 07-15-2018, 02:18 AM   #175
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I honestly have no clue what your point is. If it's the example of cracking a case and resubmitting, I don't know what that has to do with selling a graded card as raw.
Honesty and integrity.
Sometimes you should be completely honest and have absolute integrity, but other times you wouldn't be completely forthcoming (honest) and still have integrity?
Just seems confusing.

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