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Old 12-20-2017, 07:27 PM   #26
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Because they're off to a terrible start of a rebuild

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Originally Posted by RelicCollector View Post
Le Batard pretty rude of the bat. Then again, Manfred asking for it

Why don't Marlins fans embrace the rebuild?
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Old 12-20-2017, 07:32 PM   #27
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Just wondering aloud because I don't know but has either of those markets(MIA/TB) ever supported their teams w/ strong attendance? I know the TB stadium is a dump, Marlins old shed is too. Just wondering when they get new stadiums and they eventually start winning again what will the excuse for poor attendance be then?
A little research shows -
In the last 20 years including a WS crown Marlins have never even averaged 23,000 fans, never better than 12th out of 16 NL teams
The Rays have finished last or next to last in AL attendance in something like 15 out of the last 18 years(during multiple playoff runs)
Not sure baseball will ever be a winner in Florida
Have you ever been to Marlins Park? Yes, Tropicana field is a dump but Marlins Park was just built in 2012, it’s a nice small park.
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Old 12-20-2017, 07:56 PM   #28
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Rebuilds can be painful, but they can also (after the pain) bring a new excitement and invigoration.... just ask the White Sox fans
Agree 100%. And Manfed gave some great examples of teams that rebuilt a few years ago and are in the playoffs... or winning Championships. The problem here is that brand new ownership is blowing the team up.
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:16 PM   #29
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Hasn't the Rays history just been one long continuous rebuild?
Were you out of the country from 2008-2013?
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:19 PM   #30
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Agree 100%. And Manfed gave some great examples of teams that rebuilt a few years ago and are in the playoffs... or winning Championships. The problem here is that brand new ownership is blowing the team up.
Why the emphasis on brand new? The first thing a new owner does in any previously failing business is start rebuilding it. Sometimes that involves blowing things up.
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Old 12-20-2017, 08:20 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by RelicCollector View Post
Le Batard pretty rude of the bat. Then again, Manfred asking for it


Why don't Marlins fans embrace the rebuild?
No kidding. Apparently it was supposed to be done by now.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:12 PM   #32
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Because they're off to a terrible start of a rebuild
I get that their goal is to shed salary, but they've done nothing but that. They haven't got any really good prospects in return some decent ones and throw ins it seems. So what are they "building" off of? Getting last place for the next five years and stocking up on high draft picks? They'll have a hell of a time trying to get any significant FA's to go to Miami for a while.
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:13 PM   #33
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I support Miami in embracing "the process"
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Old 12-20-2017, 11:14 PM   #34
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Exactly. Congrats, you've gotten rid of some big contracts. Never said that wasn't a bad business move. But you haven't improved your team whatsoever in neither the short nor long term. Haven't gotten any significant current MLBers nor prospects. Haven't given fans any reason to go to the ballpark now nor in the long term. Haven't given anybody a reason to believe things will get better in the next 5 years

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I get that their goal is to shed salary, but they've done nothing but that. They haven't got any really good prospects in return some decent ones and throw ins it seems. So what are they "building" off of? Getting last place for the next five years and stocking up on high draft picks? They'll have a hell of a time trying to get any significant FA's to go to Miami for a while.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:04 AM   #35
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Why the emphasis on brand new? The first thing a new owner does in any previously failing business is start rebuilding it. Sometimes that involves blowing things up.
You get that.
I get that.
The average baseball fan doesn't get that.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:06 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by letsgocapitals View Post
You get that.
I get that.
The average baseball fan doesn't get that.
#truth
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:54 AM   #37
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My front steps are pretty icy right now, could sure use some LeBatard to fix that.
The only people who don't think the Stanton trade was absurd is Yankees fans who, not surprisingly, are running around calling anyone who dares comment about it 'salty'. And then they wonder why people think Yankees fans are jackholes.
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Old 12-21-2017, 08:56 AM   #38
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The city of Miami built a stadium(Which they didn't want...) with public funds for the Marlins and MLB. They were told if they built the stadium these fire sales would no longer happen. MLB inflates the price of the team because of the stadium paid for by the taxpayers to get a 1.2 billion price tag on a team that is worth 66% of that number. MLB knows the the ownership is going to cut payroll by once again trading another MVP player for pennies.

MLB wants the South Florida market.... The South Florida market wants nothing to do with MLB. Especially now. They will have record lows in attendance this year. The only people in the stands will be the opposing fans.

Loved everything LeBatard said yesterday. He loves the city of Miami, and MLB treats South Florida like garbage. Now they get to sit back for the next 3-5 years being one of the 3 worst teams in baseball without their franchise player.

Ownership could have found a way to appease the fans instead of trying to make a bad team profitable overnight.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:21 AM   #39
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The only people who don't think the Stanton trade was absurd is Yankees fans who, not surprisingly, are running around calling anyone who dares comment about it 'salty'. And then they wonder why people think Yankees fans are jackholes.
...says the red sox fan.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:28 AM   #40
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I get the paradox...

Stanton was a crown jewel. Both a draw yet a huge liability.

Like Lebatard said... you don't trade Babe Ruth, and the Marlins have done it twice!!!

Ideally, sports teams should be like art or jewelry.... aka the Dallas Mavs.

Enjoy it and hope it brings you some value in the end.

It's always easier to spend OPM, but I would have added pitching and given it a year or two.
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Old 12-21-2017, 09:49 AM   #41
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It was a great deal for the Marlins but don't make it that they fleeced the city. They have their negotiators at the table and ultimately the politicians made the decision to approve the deal. They could have told Loria to kick rocks, but they didn't. That's on them, not the Marlins.
Pretty sure Marlins ownership made some promises about team payroll and such that they instantly went back on, and continue to go back on. So yes, they fleeced the city, the citizens, and what fans they have left. I'm glad Le Batard tore into him. We need more people like him who will call out these people for the crap they pull.

Edit: I just learned that the group that bought the Marlins had to take on a good chunk of debt to buy the team. That doesn't make for an ownership group that is interested in spending money on payroll. Kind of crummy that Manfred would approve that which is probably the main reason Le Batard tore into him. I think Dan mentioned that but I just missed it during my listen through.

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Old 12-21-2017, 09:54 AM   #42
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Pretty sure Marlins ownership made some promises about team payroll and such that they instantly went back on, and continue to go back on. So yes, they fleeced the city, the citizens, and what fans they have left. I'm glad Le Batard tore into him. We need more people like him who will call out these people for the crap they pull.
Promises mean nothing in negotiations. You want a guarantee? You want a promise? Write it into the contract.
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Old 12-21-2017, 10:05 AM   #43
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Promises mean nothing in negotiations. You want a guarantee? You want a promise? Write it into the contract.
Honestly, if people think the Marlins former and current ownership is not shady and scummy then I got nothing. If an owner ever floats the idea of moving a team in order to get a new stadium then they are scum (meaning most owners are scum). They love to say how it'll be such a great investment by the city. Hmmm, if it was such a great investment, then why aren't you building it Mr. Owner?

The only time I view these things as being a great investment by both the city and the team are arenas. Arenas get so much use compared to football and baseball stadiums. Outside of the team that occupies the stadium, not much else goes on in there.

Also, I agree that the government down there in Miami are crap. From what I read, they ignored the voters who voted against a new tax. They instead instituted a hotel/visitor tax which cost the mayor his job.
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Old 12-21-2017, 10:08 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by Brobocop View Post
Honestly, if people think the Marlins former and current ownership is not shady and scummy then I got nothing. If an owner ever floats the idea of moving a team in order to get a new stadium then they are scum (meaning most owners are scum). They love to say how it'll be such a great investment by the city. Hmmm, if it was such a great investment, then why aren't you building it Mr. Owner?

The only time I view these things as being a great investment by both the city and the team are arenas. Arenas get so much use compared to football and baseball stadiums. Outside of the team that occupies the stadium, not much else goes on in there.

Also, I agree that the government down there in Miami are crap. From what I read, they ignored the voters who voted against a new tax. They instead instituted a hotel/visitor tax which cost the mayor his job.
I am not arguing with you. I can't stand what Loria and MLB did to Montreal, and I think what they have done in Miami is garbage too. That being said, the local politicians bear most of the blame on that stadium deal.
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