National Treasures FOTL Listed

[M4YH3M1]

Originally Posted by kyle121592

My point is that $500 a box is a bargain regardless of what is inside.

It's a pretty good retail price for the product, but how low and act is it for blowout/dacw/steelcity etc to; a) seek to obtain them over retail consumers and then; b) sell them for ludicrous profit margins?

Regular NT is roughly $350 usd a box from Panini, yet what are these guys selling it at; $950 usd a box. Just ass-f*cking everyone. with no Vaseline.

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by Cal27

I had never had any problem pre ordering video game consoles, such as PS4 and Nintendo Switch. Hopefully, my first pre order for NT will go smoothly. I just want one box. Any tips from the seasoned veterans to help a rookie secure a box would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Not really anything you can do for tips. It's the website, there's nothing you can do. The pages don't load, it's overwhelmed. It's like trying to load a webpage that takes forever and you just keep watching that circle spin. You're at the mercy of the internet gods. I dunno, Pray to Google

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by M4YH3M1

It's a pretty good retail price for the product, but how low and act is it for blowout/dacw/steelcity etc to; a) seek to obtain them over retail consumers and then; b) sell them for ludicrous profit margins?

Regular NT is roughly $350 usd a box from Panini, yet what are these guys selling it at; $950 usd a box. Just ass-f*cking everyone. with no Vaseline.

You are talking about two separate things.

The product that is listed now on those sites for 1K is priced that way due to scarcity. Panini tells them "if you order 3 cases of this crap, we'll allocate you one case of NT" or something along those lines. So they have to play Panini's game first to get even a limited amount of NT cases.

The second thing you mentioned is the FOTL boxes. I don't think any of us can prove that any of the major outlets are buying them direct from Panini, but BO usually posts a BUY offer for customers who want to resell. So you can sell to BO for, say, 1,000, and BO will resell it from there. So their margins aren't as crazy as you think on the FOTL.

[mfisher27]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

You are talking about two separate things.

The product that is listed now on those sites for 1K is priced that way due to scarcity. Panini tells them "if you order 3 cases of this crap, we'll allocate you one case of NT" or something along those lines. So they have to play Panini's game first to get even a limited amount of NT cases.

The second thing you mentioned is the FOTL boxes. I don't think any of us can prove that any of the major outlets are buying them direct from Panini, but BO usually posts a BUY offer for customers who want to resell. So you can sell to BO for, say, 1,000, and BO will resell it from there. So their margins aren't as crazy as you think on the FOTL.

Even if they were, I don't get why it bugs people so bad. They're a business. If they think they can make money on it, they'll buy it.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

You are talking about two separate things.

The product that is listed now on those sites for 1K is priced that way due to scarcity. Panini tells them "if you order 3 cases of this crap, we'll allocate you one case of NT" or something along those lines. So they have to play Panini's game first to get even a limited amount of NT cases.

The second thing you mentioned is the FOTL boxes. I don't think any of us can prove that any of the major outlets are buying them direct from Panini, but BO usually posts a BUY offer for customers who want to resell. So you can sell to BO for, say, 1,000, and BO will resell it from there. So their margins aren't as crazy as you think on the FOTL.

Scarcity is a relative term here. You know these cases aren’t scarce by any means. If you’re saying scarce in the sense that they are highly allocated, then sure. Scarce in the sense that less are produced? Nope.

I can promise you that there aren’t 3000 buyers at $4000 a case right now, yet currently there are 3000+ unopened cases. If they were all released at once (they’ve all been allocated already), this wouldn’t be $4000 a case.

[eastbayak]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Scarcity is a relative term here. You know these cases aren’t scarce by any means. If you’re saying scarce in the sense that they are highly allocated, then sure. Scarce in the sense that less are produced? Nope.

I can promise you that there aren’t 3000 buyers at $4000 a case right now, yet currently there are 3000+ unopened cases. If they were all released at once (they’ve all been allocated already), this wouldn’t be $4000 a case.

Perceived scarcity vs. actual scarcity. Allocating little by little supports the former’s cause and helps keep the price high because it seems that there’s little bit of it available when, in fact, that’s not exactly true. Can’t blame them (or the distributor or whoever is doing this) though, they’re just milking the market.

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by mfisher27

Even if they were, I don't get why it bugs people so bad. They're a business. If they think they can make money on it, they'll buy it.

I agree. I'm in the same business. I buy cards to make money. The more, the better. I ordered Bowman 6 months ago and waited until yesterday to sell for double. I didn't feel bad about that at all.

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

Scarcity is a relative term here. You know these cases aren’t scarce by any means. If you’re saying scarce in the sense that they are highly allocated, then sure. Scarce in the sense that less are produced? Nope.

I can promise you that there aren’t 3000 buyers at $4000 a case right now, yet currently there are 3000+ unopened cases. If they were all released at once (they’ve all been allocated already), this wouldn’t be $4000 a case.

Well yes, scarce in the sense that these outlets may be limited on allocations because they also needed to monitor how much junk they were willing to take to acquire these cases. If they only have 4 or 5 cases to begin with, I don't blame them for pricing high at pre-sell knowing the cases will likely increase in value over time. If all 3,000 cases were released at the same time, and the big retailers had dozens for sale, the prices would have started much lower.

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by eastbayak

Perceived scarcity vs. actual scarcity. Allocating little by little supports the former’s cause and helps keep the price high because it seems that there’s little bit of it available when, in fact, that’s not exactly true. Can’t blame them (or the distributor or whoever is doing this) though, they’re just milking the market.

I do blame distributors somewhat because prospecting and speculating is not supposed to be the business of the distributor. The distributor is given the keys to the castle by the manufacturer to be a middleman, and for years they operated with the same 6-8% margins. It is only recently that distributors decided to become retailers and simply hold product until release to make even more money. This would likely be unethical in just about any other industry, but apparently is not regulated by sports card companies.

[MF514235]

So here's a random question, and perhaps its been answered elsewhere...If you manage to get a box, and you want to resell it, why not use a consignor like PWCC? I'm aware of the fees, but you could avoid having to deal with super shady buyers who will ask for refunds.

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

I agree. I'm in the same business. I buy cards to make money. The more, the better. I ordered Bowman 6 months ago and waited until yesterday to sell for double. I didn't feel bad about that at all.



Well yes, scarce in the sense that these outlets may be limited on allocations because they also needed to monitor how much junk they were willing to take to acquire these cases. If they only have 4 or 5 cases to begin with, I don't blame them for pricing high at pre-sell knowing the cases will likely increase in value over time. If all 3,000 cases were released at the same time, and the big retailers had dozens for sale, the prices would have started much lower.

But the main distributors did have all 3000 cases at once (or 90% of them). Panini is sold out of NT. While this is allocated, and always has been, it’s not scarce by any means. One of my LCS that I visit gets. 3 cases a year. Not a ton but he maybe orders 0.5-1 case of 50% of basketball products. He has a better relationship with his distributor than most, but the guy down the street who orders quadruple what this guy does hasn’t received a case in 3 years.

Even though we’re 1-2 weeks out on NT, I’d venture to guess that maybe 50% on the low-end and 70% on the high-end has actually been filled from preorders. We have 30-50% that will be offered in the 1st few weeks to the big buyers at a higher price. NT from all years is still available (at a higher cost) without even having a dealernet account. It’s allocated and held back, but it’s not scarce.

You have about 5 distributors who control ~80% of the supply. They’re not “sold out” yet.

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by GeechQuest

But the main distributors did have all 3000 cases at once (or 90% of them). Panini is sold out of NT. While this is allocated, and always has been, it’s not scarce by any means. One of my LCS that I visit gets. 3 cases a year. Not a ton but he maybe orders 0.5-1 case of 50% of basketball products. He has a better relationship with his distributor than most, but the guy down the street who orders quadruple what this guy does hasn’t received a case in 3 years.

Even though we’re 1-2 weeks out on NT, I’d venture to guess that maybe 50% on the low-end and 70% on the high-end has actually been filled from preorders. We have 30-50% that will be offered in the 1st few weeks to the big buyers at a higher price. NT from all years is still available (at a higher cost) without even having a dealernet account. It’s allocated and held back, but it’s not scarce.

You have about 5 distributors who control ~80% of the supply. They’re not “sold out” yet.

Yes I agree again, but keep in mind BO, DA, SCC, ATL are not distributors. If they are being allocated, and also told they need to order junk to get NT, then that addresses M4YH3M1's allegation that they are stooping low to take advantage of customers. I'm fine with the anger, but it was displaced in his comment. If you want to be angry, go after Peach State, GTS, Southern Hobby and the other master distributors who are really responsible for controlling that supply.

[RogerGodahell]

They need to sell the poop to get the good stuff

[GeechQuest]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

Yes I agree again, but keep in mind BO, DA, SCC, ATL are not distributors. If they are being allocated, and also told they need to order junk to get NT, then that addresses M4YH3M1's allegation that they are stooping low to take advantage of customers. I'm fine with the anger, but it was displaced in his comment. If you want to be angry, go after Peach State, GTS, Southern Hobby and the other master distributors who are really responsible for controlling that supply.

Agreed. BO isn’t a distributor, but they are the biggest dealer and move more cases to the public than anybody. BO didn’t put up all their allocations in the 1st presale, but I do place the blame on PS, GTS , SH and the others.

[CoolG]

Originally Posted by MF514235

So here's a random question, and perhaps its been answered elsewhere...If you manage to get a box, and you want to resell it, why not use a consignor like PWCC? I'm aware of the fees, but you could avoid having to deal with super shady buyers who will ask for refunds.

Sold over 100 factory sealed boxes on eBay over last 2-3 years
I’m a small timer never a return
I’ve sold boxes anywhere from $70 box to $900 box
really not an issue
IMO

[GavinD82]

Originally Posted by M4YH3M1

You guys think you have zero chance in the USA with lightning fast internet.

Try being on the other side of the globe with our sh1thouse internet speeds.. haha

We have less than zero chance of getting a box.

Yeah it's pretty comical, we just fell below Kazakhstan in internet speeds haha. Think ours is 25mbps compared to Singapore's (#1 in speed) who's is 160mbps. Aussie Aussie Aussie!!...Oi oh nevermind

[Earlsnake07]

Originally Posted by CoolG

Sold over 100 factory sealed boxes on eBay over last 2-3 years
I’m a small timer never a return
I’ve sold boxes anywhere from $70 box to $900 box
really not an issue
IMO

The way people are talking is that FOTL is going to be way over $900 a box - not a lot of people want to gamble with that kind of money and eBay's superior history with sellers......

[auctionjmm]

Originally Posted by Earlsnake07

The way people are talking is that FOTL is going to be way over $900 a box - not a lot of people want to gamble with that kind of money and eBay's superior history with sellers......

Well as we are seeing with Bowman baseball, all sense goes out the window when a product is hot, and people will gamble it all away for sure.

As far as eBay, who says you have to sell on eBay? Blowout will have a bounty for NOTL boxes by 11:02am. Call the number and sell them off. You'll get a good check and no hassle.

[kyle121592]

Originally Posted by auctionjmm

Well as we are seeing with Bowman baseball, all sense goes out the window when a product is hot, and people will gamble it all away for sure.

As far as eBay, who says you have to sell on eBay? Blowout will have a bounty for NOTL boxes by 11:02am. Call the number and sell them off. You'll get a good check and no hassle.

Or sell them to me

[benz35]

you guys ready?

[cshelb34687]

Originally Posted by benz35

you guys ready?

For tomorrow? Yes!!!

[The Accountant]

so excited.

[benz35]

im gonna call in sick lol...

[theleica]

Originally Posted by benz35

im gonna call in sick lol...

I was able to schedule in a lunch break from 10:50-11:50am into my photo shoot tomorrow so hopefully I can snag a box.


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[dengbang]

Going to be a lot of disappointed folks tomorrow. Pretty sure the site will crash before realease time and then come back on at a later time where all the stock mysteriously disappears, only to be later found on some distributor sites

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[theleica]

Originally Posted by dengbang

Going to be a lot of disappointed folks tomorrow. Pretty sure the site will crash before realease time and then come back on at a later time where all the stock mysteriously disappears, only to be later found on some distributor sites

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

There will always be disappointed folks. I was disappointed over the Optic release (4 hours of trying and I wasn't able to get a box.) I got lucky because my girlfriend tried and was able to get 2 boxes.

Panini has worked (or at least given the illusion) that they have worked on their servers since then.

Some members will be able to get boxes and others won't. Hopefully we get lucky.






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