2018 AL MVP race

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

oh he shouldnt have won?? hmm...i must have missed that part on his BREF page...it shows MVP-1 in bold...when you click it for that year...it shows the voting totals where he won with 22/28 1st place votes...maybe the part with the

*he shouldnt have won* was way at the bottom of the page??

i mean you said he shouldnt have won...so clearly history is just wrong and shouldnt be used since you said so right??

and you can say all you damn well please how its not the "MVPOTBT" but if you are going to simply ignore the fact that team success plays a HUGE roll in the award...then you are just being delusional

again..its not the WAR award...if Trout gets to 10.0WAR and another player(in any year not this year) gets to 8.5+WAR...but the guy with 8.5 is on a team that wins its division...and LAA once again finishes like 4th...Trout wont win...i mean hardly ever will he win in that situation...and he shouldnt...1.5WAR doesnt mean enough to discount other great seasons of guys that are going to the playoffs...again...this isnt just my opinion...its just how it is...you dont have to like it...but you are in denial if you think its not the way it is

but hey what does anyone else know....Triple Crown?? hadnt been done in 45yrs..."i dont value it cuz LOL at RBIs and it doesnt count for OBP"..(like miggy sucked at OBP that year...it was .399 to .393)

ok cool...look at you...you are being cool and edgy by saying things like the triple crown means nothing...well apparently it does, since again...he won the MVP with 22 of the 28 available 1st place votes...crazy i know!

Your inability to ever do anything but appeal to authority is cute.

You deny you and most others just go with most valuable player on the best team award, then mock saying it shouldn't be a WAR award, have at it kiddo!

[Sportnut08]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Cabrera shouldn't have won the MVP award that year, the Triple Crown doesn't value OBP, so I don't value it (and LOL at RBI)

Also, Miggy was a 3rd basemen when he was MVP, I'm sure a smart guy like you knew that though!

Also, it's the most valuable player award not MVPOTBT award (most valuable player on the best team,just if that went over your head)

So what? The statement he responded to was essentially “I don’t understand how JD will get any votes.” History shows that there’s a very highly likelihood that he not only will garner votes, but win the award. Should, shouldn’t, who cares. We’re talking about what will happen.

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Your inability to ever do anything but appeal to authority is cute.

You deny you and most others just go with most valuable player on the best team award, then mock saying it shouldn't be a WAR award, have at it kiddo!

no thats not what is happening at all...i am able to not just blindly give it to whoever has the highest WAR

if both guys made playoffs and Trout was ahead by a bunch in WAR...then sure...but if one guy is on a team that had success...and another is on a team that once again was nothing and the guy on the team who wins had just as good of a statistical season but is 1-2 WAR points behind(for whatever reasons...OBP little lower, less steals or whatever)...to me(and many others by the way, including what seems to be about 80% of the voters) then i see no issue with team success being used as a sort of tie-breaker type thing...and yes there is a difference in CLE winning the awful Central and BOS winning like 110 games in the East...that is different levels of success

who is the authority you speak of? the guys who vote on the award?? if you think that if a bunch of people on blowout forums somehow have influence on them voting a certain way...then yea i dont know what to say...im not just blindly going with what they do...when i debate these awards though...i will say that its part who i want to win and part what i think the voters will do based on past years...

to me that is better than an Indians fan coming in and saying how incredibly insane it is to even mention JD Martinez in the same paragraph as Betts/Ramirez...if you cant see why JD will get a lot of votes and might win the award..then thats on you...not me

i am able to take what i think the voters will do and couple it with my own thoughts...

i think if Mookie only misses a game or two more and comes back and stays hot and keeps producing that he will still win...and maybe Ramirez finishes 2nd...love that guy too..he is awesome...but i dont think JD finishes lower than 3rd in almost any scenario to be honest...barring injury or massive collapse which i dont see happening

but it also would not surprise me one bit if JD won the award...i do sort of expect it at this point to be honest...

.330 45+HR, 130+RBI with big ass SLG/OPS....and its not like he is some random no WAR type guy either...

its not like its K.Davis with his 34hr and 93rbi and 141OPS+...he is on pace for like 3.0WAR...im not advocating that WAR means nothing...im just saying simply that it doesnt mean everything either

i just dont get it...im not dogging betts or ramirez or anyone else...

JD has mostly been a DH...ok...again his WAR reflects that and he is still on pace for like 7+ himself...Trout won an MVP with 7.6WAR one year...its not some scrub number just because a couple other guys happen to be on pace for 10WAR

and their is precedent just 6yrs ago that a 3.5WAR gap was overcome when Miggy won...like that outcome or not...that is what happened...to act like it wont again is silly to me..."miggy wasnt a DH"...ok he was a negative value Defensive player...how is it any different?? he wasnt gaining WAR from defense that year...he mine as well just have been a DH at that point...his defense was negative...JD either doesnt play defense or its negative...its really THAT different?? to me its not...

we will just see what happens

everyone seems to think that emotion and optics/how you remember the season just disappears...

JD has hit a bunch of late-inning bombs or big hits...those matter more than just the 0.1 increase in WAR that he might have gotten from that game...and i think his argument is going to keep building with each big hit from here to end of season...

either way it should be a very fun rest of year and a very interesting vote even if he does finish like a distant 3rd...will still be intriguing between other two guys

[rseve43]

WAR is not a stand-alone number, regardless of its intentions. It's one number to be looked at and considered with a player's entire stat line.

To ONLY look at WAR is similar to ONLY looking at batting average, or ONLY looking at Home Runs. We can all agree that it's silly to do so because you miss out on the full context of what the player did for the year. Same with WAR...it's supposed to help quantify an overall value, but it doesn't tell the full story on its own.

[abide]

I didn't read every comment in this thread, but I think that Betts and JD are going to split votes to some extent, and some voters who want to give it a Red Sox player, may even give the vote to Chris Sale.
And I don't think voters are going to list those guys 1-2-3

I see some ballots looking like this
1. Betts
2. Trout
3 JD

and others looking like this
1. JD
2. Trout
3. Sale

and others looking like this
1. Trout [for the body of his work]
2. Stanton [because of Yankee bias]
3. Sale [because hitting at Fenway is "easy" but pitching is a nightmare]

[and no disrespect to Lindor, he gets in there too on some ballots]

and when the votes are counted, Trout might sneak in

[cnewby]

Originally Posted by abide

and when the votes are counted, Trout might sneak in

Nope.

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by abide

I didn't read every comment in this thread, but I think that Betts and JD are going to split votes to some extent, and some voters who want to give it a Red Sox player, may even give the vote to Chris Sale.
And I don't think voters are going to list those guys 1-2-3

I see some ballots looking like this
1. Betts
2. Trout
3 JD

and others looking like this
1. JD
2. Trout
3. Sale

and others looking like this
1. Trout [for the body of his work]
2. Stanton [because of Yankee bias]
3. Sale [because hitting at Fenway is "easy" but pitching is a nightmare]

[and no disrespect to Lindor, he gets in there too on some ballots]

and when the votes are counted, Trout might sneak in

ok what? so you see a bunch of ballots ALWAYS having trout 1 or 2....and none will have J.Ramirez in the top 3 in any scenario?? this is madness what you just posted...lol

no yankee bias will get Stanton that high...atleast not on any more than like 1 horrible voter from NY maybe...idk ...

to me the Trout idea is just wrong...replace him with Ramirez in all 3 scenarios and your post makes sense to me...Trout honestly should be Lucky to finish in 4th at this point...i know he is having a great year...but so are a handful of other guys who are all big huge parts of teams that are winning...like im sorry Trout guys...but he should have 0 shot to win this year...and he really shouldnt be listed in the top 3 in too many at all...but thats just me thinking what should happen...im sure there will be some voters that list him 1/2/3 just because they just generally think he is the best player in the league and should win every year...maybe not that basic...but you get the idea...

[moosetequila]

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

you guys keep ripping on Stifle for bringing up all the clutch stuff...

spoiler alert...

its not the damn WAR award?? it doesnt just go to the guy with the highest WAR...geez guys...

Miggy won in '12 when Trout had like 3+ more war....why?? team success...oh and something called a triple crown...is miggy good on the bases?? is miggy a sweet defensive 1B??

WAR is helpful to a degree...but for you CLEARLY biased Indians fans to just keep repeating how you cannot even fathom a world in where JD Martinez would get votes over Ramirez let alone win the award is ridiculous

is he a majority DH?? yep sure is...not full time but mostly

is he hitting .330+...yep
is he leading the league in HR...yep
is he leading the league in RBI...yep
is he on pace for a very good 7WAR+ himself...yep
is he leading the league in XBH...yep
is he leading the league in TB...yep
he is .005 from leading in SLG
his OBP is up over .400 now
his OPS is 1.065
he is leading Ramirez specifically in: runs, hits, doubles, homers, rbi, avg, slg, ops

he is the #3/4 hitter on the best team in the league that might win 110+ games and the guy who might be the best player in the league(his teammate Betts has like previously stated, missed about 25 games now)...meaning that when it comes down to it the whole splitting vote thing might not actually matter....some voters may look at it and be like "well yea Mookie overall is better but he missed 30 games and JD didnt and he kept it going and kept producing in those extra 30 games"

his old stupid traditional stats still matter...again it is not an award for WAR...they dont just line up the number for 1 stat and vote...

"how can a 7WAR DH beat an 10.5-11WAR 3b??????"

um he can beat him by being the clean up hitter on a 110win team and leading the league in HR/RBI while hitting .330+ and all of that does indeed include a ton of clutch stuff...late in games the guy thrives...it really shouldnt be that hard to wrap your head around...

you dont have to like it...but to say you cant even imagine a world where he would win...well then that is on you to be honest...

have i mentioned that they dont just give the MVP to the guys with the highest war??

Spoiler Alert
It's not the DH Award
It's not 50% of the game award
It's not the best hitter award

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

[abide]

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

ok what? so you see a bunch of ballots ALWAYS having trout 1 or 2....and none will have J.Ramirez in the top 3 in any scenario?? this is madness what you just posted...lol

no yankee bias will get Stanton that high...atleast not on any more than like 1 horrible voter from NY maybe...idk ...

to me the Trout idea is just wrong...replace him with Ramirez in all 3 scenarios and your post makes sense to me...Trout honestly should be Lucky to finish in 4th at this point...i know he is having a great year...but so are a handful of other guys who are all big huge parts of teams that are winning...like im sorry Trout guys...but he should have 0 shot to win this year...and he really shouldnt be listed in the top 3 in too many at all...but thats just me thinking what should happen...im sure there will be some voters that list him 1/2/3 just because they just generally think he is the best player in the league and should win every year...maybe not that basic...but you get the idea...

sure, I can agree with you, I meant no disrespect to Lindor -or any other player- having a great year, including Jose Martinez, and any player who may close the season on a tear, putting his team on his back to get to the playoffs, which is unknown at this time

In general, my point is, JD, Betts and Sale, 3 Red Sox having great years, may split votes.

[Hollywood42]

Sale shouldn't get any votes. Trout absolutely shouldn't be top 3 right now either, and JoRam has to be top 3. You're right in that Betts/JD may split votes, but it's hard to tell who exactly that would benefic

Originally Posted by abide

sure, I can agree with you, I meant no disrespect to Lindor -or any other player- having a great year, including Jose Martinez, and any player who may close the season on a tear, putting his team on his back to get to the playoffs, which is unknown at this time

In general, my point is, JD, Betts and Sale, 3 Red Sox having great years, may split votes.

[jstasyk1121]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

Sale shouldn't get any votes. Trout absolutely shouldn't be top 3 right now either, and JoRam has to be top 3. You're right in that Betts/JD may split votes, but it's hard to tell who exactly that would benefic

its crazy...i feel bad for the AL guys...cuz like 5+ guys are not gonna win the MVP this that would have been easy choices in the NL...and that is including Sale...if he was doing what he is in the NL on the best team in league...he would likely be the frontrunner....along with Betts, JD, Ramirez, Lindor, Trout....any one of these guys would be borderline unanimous winners in the NL this year...its crazy that only one will win while good but not even close to same type of seasons from Baez or Freeman or Arenado/Carpenter will be an MVP winner this year...unless Max goes on to win it...which might very well happen since none of the hitters are really blowing away the competition

AL is tough to win...its just crazy...sucks for these guys on the timing of their great seasons all lining up together

[tkraft24]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

Sale shouldn't get any votes. Trout absolutely shouldn't be top 3 right now either, and JoRam has to be top 3. You're right in that Betts/JD may split votes, but it's hard to tell who exactly that would benefic

Jose/Lindor could end up splitting votes by season’s end as well. It’ll be interesting.

[Hollywood42]

Agreed, the talent in the AL is crazy. Nothing against Carp, he's been pretty darn good, but it says something when he's a finalist in the NL while even someone with a season "only" like Trout's won't win in the AL

Originally Posted by jstasyk1121

its crazy...i feel bad for the AL guys...cuz like 5+ guys are not gonna win the MVP this that would have been easy choices in the NL...and that is including Sale...if he was doing what he is in the NL on the best team in league...he would likely be the frontrunner....along with Betts, JD, Ramirez, Lindor, Trout....any one of these guys would be borderline unanimous winners in the NL this year...its crazy that only one will win while good but not even close to same type of seasons from Baez or Freeman or Arenado/Carpenter will be an MVP winner this year...unless Max goes on to win it...which might very well happen since none of the hitters are really blowing away the competition

AL is tough to win...its just crazy...sucks for these guys on the timing of their great seasons all lining up together

I don't think that'll be too big of a factor, honestly. Lindor's obviously a stud, but Ramirez should easily be the top vote getter from the Indians without much competition

Originally Posted by tkraft24

Jose/Lindor could end up splitting votes by season’s end as well. It’ll be interesting.

[tkraft24]

Originally Posted by Hollywood42

Agreed, the talent in the AL is crazy. Nothing against Carp, he's been pretty darn good, but it says something when he's a finalist in the NL while even someone with a season "only" like Trout's won't win in the AL



I don't think that'll be too big of a factor, honestly. Lindor's obviously a stud, but Ramirez should easily be the top vote getter from the Indians without much competition

The gap between Jose-Lindor is much smaller than the gap between Mookie-JD. Plus, Lindor fields a premium position and is the face of the franchise. Agreed that Jose is ahead now, but that can easily change.

[Hollywood42]

Eh, I don't think JoRam and Lindor would really split much. About the only stats Lindor is ahead in is runs and doubles, Ramirez has him beat pretty handily just about everywhere else offensively. JD and Betts are in a similar spot where really the only things JD leads Betts in is HR and RBI, but the kicker there is that JD still could have a shot at the triple crown

I guess my point is while the gaps between JoRam/Lindor and Betts/JD are similar, in both cases there's one guy that should be clearly viewed as the better choice right now (Ramirez and Betts). The difference between the two is that JD could steal some votes from Betts if he makes a run at the triple crown (or even just keeps putting up big hits in big places for the best team in baseball), whereas currently I don't really see any reason someone would vote for Lindor over Ramirez

Originally Posted by tkraft24

The gap between Jose-Lindor is much smaller than the gap between Mookie-JD. Plus, Lindor fields a premium position and is the face of the franchise. Agreed that Jose is ahead now, but that can easily change.

[cnewby]

I think Trout wins simply because he doesn't split votes with any other Angel's.

[Orange October]

Gotta agree with most and say at this point it seems to be Betts to lose. Martinez, Ramirez, and of course Trout are having fantastic seasons, but I think Betts has to have to edge.

[Shepsspot]

Originally Posted by moosetequila

Spoiler Alert
It's not the DH Award
It's not 50% of the game award
It's not the best hitter award

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

That’s right, it’s Most Valuable Player. And if you have watched any of the Sox games this year, JD is one of the major reasons for their success this year. He has changed the look of this lineup with his bat. I could give a rats #@#@#@ if he plays an inning the rest of the year, I want him mashing the ball for runs that leads to more wins.

[moosetequila]

Originally Posted by Shepsspot

That’s right, it’s Most Valuable Player. And if you have watched any of the Sox games this year, JD is one of the major reasons for their success this year. He has changed the look of this lineup with his bat. I could give a rats #@#@#@ if he plays an inning the rest of the year, I want him mashing the ball for runs that leads to more wins.

Going to work every 2-3 innings per game makes you an MVP compared to Mook who plays every inning, and who plays defense and prevents runs too?

Cool story bro

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[Shepsspot]

Originally Posted by moosetequila

Going to work every 2-3 innings per game makes you an MVP compared to Mook who plays every inning, and who plays defense and prevents runs too?

Cool story bro

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

Like I said, could care less if he is in the field or not. I want wins, and JDs bat has brought wins to this club. Again, his bat has changed the way pitchers have to pitch to this team. You can cool story me bro, and everyone else that doesn’t agree with you, but the team I root for is kicking some major butt right now and we have JD to thank for that.

[moosetequila]

Originally Posted by Shepsspot

Like I said, could care less if he is in the field or not. I want wins, and JDs bat has brought wins to this club. Again, his bat has changed the way pitchers have to pitch to this team. You can cool story me bro, and everyone else that doesn’t agree with you, but the team I root for is kicking some major butt right now and we have JD to thank for that.

Sure you do, but he is not the MVP of the team, or MLB. (My story is cool, and more to the point )

[Shepsspot]

Originally Posted by moosetequila

Sure you do, but he is not the MVP of the team, or MLB. (My story is cool, and more to the point )

If you say so.

[moosetequila]

Originally Posted by Shepsspot

If you say so.

Me and the voters who don't have him in the Top 3

[Shepsspot]

Originally Posted by moosetequila

Me and the voters who don't have him in the Top 3

Hahaha, you make it seem like your “internet” vote truly counts!!

[moosetequila]

Originally Posted by Shepsspot

Hahaha, you make it seem like your “internet” vote truly counts!!

I guess you haven't looked at any of the polls on line from the people who actually get to vote on this (BBWAA)

They get the last laugh HAHAHAHA