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Old 04-10-2018, 12:16 AM   #126
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Blaster / Rack Packs / or Mega Box for Retail Optic?

I had the best luck with rack packs for Prizm and the Blue Velocity should look nice.
If you are after Holo RC's stay away from Cellos. They are the worst odds in Optic (opposite of how strong Prizm cellos were).
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Old 04-10-2018, 01:48 PM   #127
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Just received a Blue Velocity and Black Velocity card...wow. Great parallels, the Black parallel might be my favorite of the year.
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Old 04-10-2018, 02:29 PM   #128
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If you are after Holo RC's stay away from Cellos. They are the worst odds in Optic (opposite of how strong Prizm cellos were).
Good info. The ONLY thing cellos have going for them are blue velocity parallels. The silvers are tough to hit in the packs.
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:15 PM   #129
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Question: how rare is the checkerboard for Optic and are they retail or hobby?
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:15 PM   #130
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Question: how rare is the checkerboard for Optic and are they retail or hobby?
Checkerboard are very rare and tend to come maybe 1 per a case in Retail. Only available in Retail.
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:56 PM   #131
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Checkerboard are very rare and tend to come maybe 1 per a case in Retail. Only available in Retail.
Ok thank you
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:19 PM   #132
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Good info. The ONLY thing cellos have going for them are blue velocity parallels. The silvers are tough to hit in the packs.
Cellos have the Pink /25 incl autographs and the Orange Rookie/Hall/Court Kings /9.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:32 PM   #133
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I'm a little surprised at the early prices on the mega box rated rookies. I think these will dry up pretty quick and increase in price.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:39 PM   #134
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Cellos have the Pink /25 incl autographs and the Orange Rookie/Hall/Court Kings /9.
I actually hit a pink Josh Hart rookie kings. The orange parallels are to /9? I hit a Isiah Hall Kings gold /10.....
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:43 PM   #135
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Checkerboard are very rare and tend to come maybe 1 per a case in Retail. Only available in Retail.
They seem a lot harder to hit this year than they were last year.
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Old 04-10-2018, 08:56 PM   #136
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Mega Box is trash. It’s a set of wavy prizm rated rookies and two packs. More like a set than an actual box.
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Old 04-10-2018, 09:05 PM   #137
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Yeah, the Mega Boxes are the ones to avoid IMO. Both Target and Wal-Mart, but especially WM. Those aren’t even Prizms.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:44 AM   #138
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Nice to see Panini using a photo of player not dribbling.

He's traveling instead. Least he's in his all-star uni

Cavs LeBron James 2017-18 Donruss Optic All-Stars Gold Vinyl Superfractor #1/1
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Old 04-11-2018, 10:52 AM   #139
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The same thing that made Prizm explode-- the value it represents--is going to make Optic appreciate as well, in my opinion.

I've stated it before, but I revived my interest in the hobby sometime around 2015 and was just splashing around in breaks for the longest time. Blindly firing off at any and all products from every sport. Eventually, I found 15-16 Prizm basketball. This was a product that was readily available at $100 per Jumbo Box and had base rookie cards in it that commanded upwards of $20 on the secondary market. The "refractors" offered a generous upside (at the entry price of the product) and, let's just face it, us bucketheads LOVE chrome. However, that was NOT the mass opinion on the product. Blowout couldn't give it away. It baffled me. Regular hobby boxes were at $50 (and possibly even lower) at one point. Prizm hasn't always been the giant it is now perceived to be.

Fast-forward to this year. The most-hyped (justifiably so) rookie class since 03-04-- maybe ever. That hype, however, has some nasty side effects. Chiefly among those is over-production. Our beloved Prizm has been victimized more by over-production than any other products. Even more specifically, the Silver Prizm rookies have suffered tremendously. Values and scarcity are way, way, way down. I think the actual print run on these would shock us. Prizm no longer represents value. You can go into any product preview thread on here and you'll see the word "bloodbath" ad nauseam. Would you like to know the biggest bloodbath of all? Prizm. Not even close. Open Prizm at $350 a box (it doesn't matter what MSRP is, that's not how markets work), I dare you! Actually, I beg you not to. There's nothing but pain and punishment there.

Optic, on the other hand, represents a new hope for that. The value and upside is there. The Zhou Qi Gold Vinyl auto redemption sold at auction last night for just south of 2k. You'll be able to breathe easy and not feel awful at $125 per box here. There are legitimate monsters in this product at what has become a cheap price point in this day and age. That alone can make a product "good".

I'm not positive we ever truly liked Prizm. We just liked what it stood for. Optic is still reasonably priced and with some simple improvements could be what we're looking for. The improvements are relatively minor (make it Jumbo only i.e. Prizm, 2 autos per, trim auto checklist just a tad) and not inconceivable. The on-card chrome rookie autos alone give the product an incredibly strong foundation. A stronger foundation than Prizm ever had, certainly. I personally like the design and feel of Optic a lot better. I opened plenty of packs of Prizm this year that felt like they had sand between the cards. I don't know how to better explain that, they just felt somewhat grimy. I'm yet to see it in Optic. I also firmly believe the Velocity parallels and the Gold Vinyl vastly outshine any offerings in Prizm that isn't featured in Optic.

Those are just some of my (admittedly unorganized) thoughts and personal opinions. As other users have suggested, all of Chrome could be a bubble. That's not inconceivable at all. I think I'll personally always like it, but who knows? We are fickle animals, after all.

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Old 04-11-2018, 11:13 AM   #140
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Originally Posted by JayConley View Post
The same thing that made Prizm explode-- the value it represents--is going to make Optic appreciate as well, in my opinion.

I've stated it before, but I revived my interest in the hobby sometime around 2015 and was just splashing around in breaks for the longest time. Blindly firing off at any and all products from every sport. Eventually, I found 15-16 Prizm basketball. This was a product that was readily available at $100 per Jumbo Box and had base rookie cards in it that commanded upwards of $20 on the secondary market. The "refractors" offered a generous upside (at the entry price of the product) and, let's just face it, us bucketheads LOVE chrome. However, that was NOT the mass opinion on the product. Blowout couldn't give it away. It baffled me. Regular hobby boxes were at $50 (and possibly even lower) at one point. Prizm hasn't always been the giant it is now perceived to be.

Fast-forward to this year. The most-hyped (justifiably so) rookie class since 03-04-- maybe ever. That hype, however, has some nasty side effects. Chiefly among those is over-production. Our beloved Prizm has been victimized more by over-production than any other products. Even more specifically, the Silver Prizm rookies have suffered tremendously. Values and scarcity are way, way, way down. I think the actual print run on these would shock us. Prizm no longer represents value. You can go into any product preview thread on here and you'll see the word "bloodbath" ad nauseam. Would you like to know the biggest bloodbath of all? Prizm. Not even close. Open Prizm at $350 a box (it doesn't matter what MSRP is, that's not how markets work), I dare you! Actually, I beg you not to. There's nothing but pain and punishment there.

Optic, on the other hand, represents a new hope for that. The value and upside is there. The Zhou Qi Gold Vinyl auto redemption sold at auction last night for just south of 2k. You'll be able to breathe easy and not feel awful at $125 per box here. There are legitimate monsters in this product at what has become a cheap price point in this day and age. That alone can make a product "good".

I'm not positive we ever truly liked Prizm. We just liked what it stood for. Optic is still reasonably priced and with some simple improvements could be what we're looking for. The improvements are relatively minor (make it Jumbo only i.e. Prizm, 2 autos per, trim auto checklist just a tad) and not inconceivable. The on-card chrome rookie autos alone give the product an incredibly strong foundation. A stronger foundation than Prizm ever had, certainly. I personally like the design and feel of Optic a lot better. I opened plenty of packs of Prizm this year that felt like they had sand between the cards. I don't know how to better explain that, they just felt somewhat grimy. I'm yet to see it in Optic. I also firmly believe the Velocity parallels and the Gold Vinyl vastly outshine any offerings in Prizm that isn't featured in Optic.

Those are just some of my (admittedly unorganized) thoughts and personal opinions. As other users have suggested, all of Chrome could be a bubble. That's not inconceivable at all. I think I'll personally always like it, but who knows? We are fickle animals, after all.
Very interesting post here, and I agree on a majority of the things you have stated about Optic and Prizm. You are absolutely correct, the mass production of Prizm this year and overproduction of Silvers has really hit the consumer appreciation of Prizm. It also put a dent into what consumers would call the "staple" of non-auto rookies in Basketball. I personally love Optic, it really has risen in quality. What makes the product so amazing is the price point vs product quality. If you see that at $110-125 a box you are getting "CHROME" rookies. And you said it best, Bucket fans love their "Chrome". To have a product that is cheap and fulfills many collectors desires in getting a chrome rookie is fantastic. Now add in On-Card Autographs, which is a massive plus for collectors. One thing though is we have to also consider that Prizm and Optic is not an "Autograph" set. It's value comes in the "Non-Autos" and that is something I love about Basketball.

My opinion on the bubble is different, Chrome definitely is not a bubble as Chrome has been a fan favorite for over 25 years. I wouldn't call Chrome at all a bubble but a definite. Chrome has always and will always be popular to collectors and will always hold a higher price point. It has and will.

Overall, Optic has pushed heavily in a positive direction. It has not leveled with Prizm as Prizm has seniority over Optic; however, in a few years this may change. Print runs will potentially confirm this if it continues.
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Old 04-11-2018, 12:31 PM   #141
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Interesting reads on Optic vs. Prizm. I personally don't see the appeal of Prizm other than it filled a void and caught on after a while. Ignoring the value/price, I still think Optic is the better product, but when you factor in the $300+/box for hobby Prizm, it's an even easier decision.
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Old 04-11-2018, 01:15 PM   #142
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Prizm = Finest

Optic = Topps Chrome

Been saying it for over a year now.

This year's Optic is awesome and the only thing more awesome is how little I have to spend to get stud RC on-card autos.

You can pick up silver holo RCs of guys like Lonzo, Jackson, Isaac, DSJ for $25 or less.

You can get Tatums and Mitchells for a fraction of what their Prizms go for.

You can get RR on-card autos of DSJ and Josh Jackson for < $60

I'm considering liquidating some high-end baseball to purchase as many silver/auto Optics from this year as I can, it's that much of a no-brainer investment.

People thought it was stupid to pick up Ben Simmons Optic holos last year for $70 apiece, will go down as one of the all-time steals in card collecting.

And the black velocity RRs from this year are already selling well, and have a lot of room to go up.
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Old 04-11-2018, 02:11 PM   #143
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I've always loved Prizm but I may be expanding my collection into Optic with how amazing the set seems to be
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Old 04-11-2018, 02:32 PM   #144
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I get the Topps Finest/Topps Chrome argument ,but Prizm is to big to fail at this point. There wasn't a bagillion dollars in collectors money wrapped up in Topps Finest when Chrome stole the throne.
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Old 04-11-2018, 04:22 PM   #145
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I get the Topps Finest/Topps Chrome argument ,but Prizm is to big to fail at this point. There wasn't a bagillion dollars in collectors money wrapped up in Topps Finest when Chrome stole the throne.
Even in 96/97 people had invested a lot in Finest basketball and were buying up Finest Kobes instead of Chrome ones.

This is not a solid argument.

Ask a Panini rep what the goal for Optic vs Prizm is.
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Old 04-11-2018, 04:26 PM   #146
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Optic is super sharp! Picked this up today:

2017 Optic LeBron Checkerboard 85 by Nate Flesher, on Flickr
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Old 04-11-2018, 05:02 PM   #147
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Optic is super sharp! Picked this up today:

2017 Optic LeBron Checkerboard 85 by Nate Flesher, on Flickr
WHY DO PEOPLE PUT CHROME CARDS IN MAGSSSSS?!?!?!
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Old 04-11-2018, 05:02 PM   #148
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Lol, the Prizm = Finest guy finally made it here. I was beginning to think he missed this one.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:47 PM   #149
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Lol, the Prizm = Finest guy finally made it here. I was beginning to think he missed this one.
Meh, this is a little too petty. No offense, of course. I think it's just a simple way to articulate an opinion. And, for what it's worth, Finest certainly isn't a "bad" product. Comparisons will always be made with these products, but just like comparing players from different eras is unfair so too is comparing different products from totally different companies (and even intercompany products).

I can buy it if he is meaning that Optic is based on a "flagship" set (Donruss is a flagship base set) just like Chrome was based on the Topps set, and that alone gives it baked-in collector appeal. It should have been more evident with Chrome, I think, but hindsight is 20/20 after all. Maybe we are missing the same thing here? Or, rather, casually glancing over it. Maybe not. Again, the reason I have started to prefer Optic is mostly just because of aesthetic appeal, which is totally subjective. My other "rose-tinted" opinions on the product are largely subjective and speculative, too, namely my perception that Panini has seemingly geared more focused improvement on Optic (on-card autos, innovative new parallels that are cleverly numbered) while continuously diluting Prizm. I try not to pass those off as fact as much as possible, and I apologize if it ever seems I am doing that.

We are far, far too dismissive here. Whether we mean to be or not is irrelevant. We all put a little too much faith in our own opinions. I know a ton of us (myself included) are left "holding the bag" on Prizm. There's a palpable tension on the boards because of that alone, much like there is the nearly unanimous hate for players and products that aren't priced within the more average budget. I guess that's just how it goes. However, there is a certain old-guard here that seems to be steadfast in their support of Prizm. I think that's just a mix of pride, nostalgia and a sunk-cost bias.
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Old 04-11-2018, 06:55 PM   #150
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A lot of this seems like an Adidas spokesman trying to pitch why they're better than Nike.
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