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Old 06-09-2018, 10:13 AM   #1601
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If Trump is willing to pardon Ali for believing in his freedom and his rights to not go to the army, what is he saying about the current NFL players who believes in their rights and freedom to not stand for the anthem?
Funny thing is that Ali doesn’t need a pardon since the Supreme Court overturned his conviction back in 1971.
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Old 06-09-2018, 01:08 PM   #1602
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Anyone who believes a word out of his mouth is in for a big surprise. Even some supporters here admits he lies constantly, although in the case of one, sadly, since his family is now "doing well" (in part as a result of that continual dishonesty), he is willing to overlook it. Astonishing, but true, as if one's integrity could ever be worth a few extra dollars in the bank. If I needed to rely on falsehoods and a new form of the "truth" so malleable to have rendered it meaningless to make a living, I'd find another way.

I had to go to sleep last night to work early this morning, but I did want to double back to this quote of mine and the response to it, which indicated incorrectly that I consider racist any person who hates those involved in the National Anthem protests.



The bolded above did not intend to mean any particular word. Activists for equal rights come from all walks of life, so the invective hurled at each group has its own subset of derogatory terms heaped upon them by (generally anonymous internet) bigots. For examples, check the entire internet.
Women are called one set, African-Americans another, and so on. The fact that it was so quickly assumed by the usual suspects that I was referring to a particular word certainly is a window into their psyches, though.

But to be clear, anti-SJWs aren't necessarily racist. Some of them are misogynists, for whatever reason, and still others ascribe to contempt for some other group of people. Some, insanely, believe that in effort to preserve one kind of freedom, it's worth restricting another kind. Whatever. The end result is the same. The righteous argument itself is never attacked, but rather, the inevitable wayward examples that may emerge from any of these proponent groups are instead held up as an unfair blanket misrepresentation of the entire group in question. This is why you hear the same names over and over. It is a cynically calculated shorthand dismissal in lieu of actually considering the merits of the various issues one by one, despite the sometimes imperfect vessels who bring those issues to the forefront.

Finally, I also agree with the most recent posts. Mistreatment suffered in this country at the hands of the "powers that be" at any level in this country has a whole lot more to do with the amount of money in one's bank account than it does the color of their skin. The letter of law surely maintains a top and a bottom.
So “the actual word” doesn’t mean any particular word? Got it. Ha
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Old 06-09-2018, 01:14 PM   #1603
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If Trump is willing to pardon Ali for believing in his freedom and his rights to not go to the army, what is he saying about the current NFL players who believes in their rights and freedom to not stand for the anthem?
Funny thing is that Ali doesn’t need a pardon since the Supreme Court overturned his conviction back in 1971.
Mother#@#@#@#@ing bingo.
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Old 06-09-2018, 02:59 PM   #1604
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So “the actual word” doesn’t mean any particular word? Got it. Ha
Did you?
The actual word they would rather call "kneelers" is dependent upon either their most prevalent bigotry or else the particular group they are attacking via your preferred ad hominem method. But the main takeaway is that denying others their 1st Amendment rights by way of making them stand for a song or a flag is an affront to every sacrifice any American ever made to keep this country the land of the free.
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Old 06-09-2018, 04:47 PM   #1605
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So, anyone changed their mind yet?

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Old 06-09-2018, 08:53 PM   #1606
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So, anyone changed their mind yet?

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Nope! People have dug in and doesn't seem to really try to understand where the other is coming from. One thing is for sure, our democracy as we know it is in grave danger. When we as citizens start to feel comfortable with the violations of other Americans civil rights it's not good. We should care about issues that face all Americans. A violation of one section of Americans rights should be considered an assault on all Americans rights. I dont agree with everyone's religion, but I respect them to exercise their right to worship the way they want, and hope they will respect my right to do so.

The other thing, as we start condoning forced patriotism, we start looking less and less like the America we are supposed to be. It won't be long before other countries start to call us out on our hypocrisy. We have to not just talk patriotism, but practice it.
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Old 06-09-2018, 09:41 PM   #1607
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But isn't it kind of a catch 22?
I mean I don't like the manner in which the NFL'ers are protesting, and by speaking my opinion on it, isn't that in of itself a form of protest?
What about my freedom of speech? My right to protest?

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Old 06-09-2018, 10:18 PM   #1608
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But isn't it kind of a catch 22?
I mean I don't like the manner in which the NFL'ers are protesting, and by speaking my opinion on it, isn't that in of itself a form of protest?
What about my freedom of speech? My right to protest?

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I think I understand where you are coming from, but Kaep's protest was not to disrespect the nation, but was meant to call out unarmed minorities being murdered by law enforcement.

Not really a catch 22. It's just sad that some are more outraged over someone kneeling during the national anthem (which is a peaceful protest) than they are over American citizens being killed and in some cases their civil rights violated. Not a catch 22. We should be more concerned about the latter.
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Old 06-09-2018, 10:57 PM   #1609
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I think I understand where you are coming from, but Kaep's protest was not to disrespect the nation, but was meant to call out unarmed minorities being murdered by law enforcement.

Not really a catch 22. It's just sad that some are more outraged over someone kneeling during the national anthem (which is a peaceful protest) than they are over American citizens being killed and in some cases their civil rights violated. Not a catch 22. We should be more concerned about the latter.
And I understand where you're coming from. Really i do. But the fact that Kaepernick's kneeling seemed to offend a lot of Americans it also seemed to draw attention either away from what he was protesting, or turned people off completely towards his initial cause.
Can I not be outraged over both, what I and many others see as disrespecting the flag and in essence those who fought and died for it, as I can be outraged over law enforcement wrongs and black Americans having their rights violated?
In my eyes it goes back to the avenues protestors choose to deliver their message. I just don't understand the idea of pissing people off to try and sway their opinions or open their eyes to the problem.
Just doesn't make sense to me.

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Old 06-09-2018, 11:44 PM   #1610
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And I understand where you're coming from. Really i do. But the fact that Kaepernick's kneeling seemed to offend a lot of Americans it also seemed to draw attention either away from what he was protesting, or turned people off completely towards his initial cause.
Can I not be outraged over both, what I and many others see as disrespecting the flag and in essence those who fought and died for it, as I can be outraged over law enforcement wrongs and black Americans having their rights violated?
In my eyes it goes back to the avenues protestors choose to deliver their message. I just don't understand the idea of pissing people off to try and sway their opinions or open their eyes to the problem.
Just doesn't make sense to me.

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Thanks for giving thought to and understanding where I'm coming from. I understand where you are coming from too. I guess what doesn't make sense to me is that Kaep lost his job for kneeling, while some officers are committing murder and violating civil rights, but are allowed to keep their jobs. You would think their would be more outrage over the latter.

I really enjoyed our conversation...thank you! I'm gonna catch some zzzzz. I gotta get an early start tomorrow. Thanks again!
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:59 AM   #1611
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This is just a back and forth ugly topic to talk about sadly. My personal opinion. They should be able to do what they want. It's their right to protest. They aren't trying to hurt anyone or disrespect the flag. Just their way of protesting. I've seen people who are serving/did serve in the past that are against the protests, and others that see nothing wrong with it. It really is, just how you look at the situation, I'm sure if we sat down and talked to the NFL players face to face and they explained their reasoning for protesting, it would make others better understand this situation.
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Old 06-10-2018, 07:38 AM   #1612
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I think I understand where you are coming from, but Kaep's protest was not to disrespect the nation, but was meant to call out unarmed minorities being murdered by law enforcement.

Not really a catch 22. It's just sad that some are more outraged over someone kneeling during the national anthem (which is a peaceful protest) than they are over American citizens being killed and in some cases their civil rights violated. Not a catch 22. We should be more concerned about the latter.
Defending Fidel Castro and wearing those stupid pig socks were 100% meant to disrespect.
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Old 06-10-2018, 10:16 AM   #1613
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Thanks for giving thought to and understanding where I'm coming from. I understand where you are coming from too. I guess what doesn't make sense to me is that Kaep lost his job for kneeling, while some officers are committing murder and violating civil rights, but are allowed to keep their jobs. You would think their would be more outrage over the latter.

I really enjoyed our conversation...thank you! I'm gonna catch some zzzzz. I gotta get an early start tomorrow. Thanks again!
kap did not lose his job he opted out of his contract
and i remember correctly he was expected to be handed an top qb contract
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:08 PM   #1614
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kap did not lose his job he opted out of his contract
and i remember correctly he was expected to be handed an top qb contract
You're right! He opted out or would have been let go. But the point is.....He doesn't have a job and its directly related to the kneeling. But I think the point was understood without getting overly techincal with wording.
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Old 06-10-2018, 12:46 PM   #1615
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Defending Fidel Castro and wearing those stupid pig socks were 100% meant to disrespect.
True, I totally agree with you on that. I did not agree with Kaep on those actions at all. It was insulting and rude. It didnt violate anyone's rights, but it definitely didnt help matters. But even if he didnt wear the Castro shirt, and didnt wear the pig socks, it wouldn't have changed the minds of those who truly never cared in the first place.

Cuba doesn't have our great constitutional laws. Those checks and balances are in place to prevent our nation from becoming like Cuba. Forced patriotism is something I would expect from Cuba, but would have never thought it would be supported here in America.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:09 PM   #1616
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True, I totally agree with you on that. I did not agree with Kaep on those actions at all. It was insulting and rude. It didnt violate anyone's rights, but it definitely didnt help matters. But even if he didnt wear the Castro shirt, and didnt wear the pig socks, it wouldn't have changed the minds of those who truly never cared in the first place.

Cuba doesn't have our great constitutional laws. Those checks and balances are in place to prevent our nation from becoming like Cuba. Forced patriotism is something I would expect from Cuba, but would have never thought it would be supported here in America.
At the end of the day, Kaepernick is simply a confused and vulnerable dude who let himself get roped into his girlfriend's agenda.

I do agree with you on the bolded.

Re: the patriotism, doesn't it also prevent and/or publicly look down upon stuff like the crap Kaepernick pulled?
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:15 PM   #1617
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Nope! People have dug in and doesn't seem to really try to understand where the other is coming from.
Just my opinion from life experiences. There only seems to be significant change on one side. The justice system has changed tremendously in the past few decades (mostly to protect the criminal. See bail reform) yet the same problems exist on the other side. Crime in Baltimore, Chicago, Cleveland, Philly and other big cities have seen an increase. Everyone points fingers at the police, but most don't even want to or will dare point the finger at criminals.

Dawnta Harris is 17 and killed an officer. https://amp-wbaltv-com.cdn.ampprojec...ays%2F20898492
His own mother said the system failed because he couldn't be locked up. Years ago, I'm sure Dawnta would have been behind bars, but since we pity criminals, he was allowed to continue to commit crime. Remember, keeping people in jail just tears families apart, especially the kids.....

I'd love to hear Kaep's opinion on Dawnta, but Kaep only speaks at certain events. He won't do interviews, probably because he won't want to answer the tough questions.
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:37 PM   #1618
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I think I understand where you are coming from, but Kaep's protest was not to disrespect the nation, but was meant to call out unarmed minorities being murdered by law enforcement.

Not really a catch 22. It's just sad that some are more outraged over someone kneeling during the national anthem (which is a peaceful protest) than they are over American citizens being killed and in some cases their civil rights violated. Not a catch 22. We should be more concerned about the latter.
How much more disrespectful can you be than lying about a group of people (white cops) being a bunch of racists that are systematically slaughtering and oppressing another race?
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Old 06-10-2018, 01:48 PM   #1619
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How about by lying about that?
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Old 06-10-2018, 04:13 PM   #1620
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Believe it or not, there is a middle ground called truth that lies between the last 2 posts, or maybe I should say posters..

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Old 06-10-2018, 04:30 PM   #1621
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How about by lying about that?
No lie about it at all. Kaepernick and the kneelers make broad accusations that there is systemic racism in America oppressing entire races of people and cops are targeting and slaughtering minorities. It's not true at all, but SJW's aren't really in it for the truth. More for the attention.
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