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Old 02-14-2017, 05:16 PM   #26
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Might be me, but I never had that "oh crap" feeling when he came to the plate against my team...lol
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Old 02-14-2017, 05:30 PM   #27
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Might be me, but I never had that "oh crap" feeling when he came to the plate against my team...lol
Maybe not, but what about when your team hit a ball to the power alley against him? Did anyone say "Oh crap, Ozzie Smith is up".
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Old 02-14-2017, 06:26 PM   #28
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.254 career batting average - no way. He hit over .300 one time. 434 homers is great, but that's not enough for me.
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Old 02-14-2017, 07:00 PM   #29
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Eventually.
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Old 02-14-2017, 07:07 PM   #30
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Maybe not, but what about when your team hit a ball to the power alley against him? Did anyone say "Oh crap, Ozzie Smith is up".
agree, but shortstop and second were different kinda positions back then.....would ozzie even make a mlb roster in this day and age? I dont believe he would...no power, didnt even hit for average.....defense? lol....that gets ya a 2 dollar bowman draft auto
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Old 02-14-2017, 07:37 PM   #31
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agree, but shortstop and second were different kinda positions back then.....would ozzie even make a mlb roster in this day and age? I dont believe he would...no power, didnt even hit for average.....defense? lol....that gets ya a 2 dollar bowman draft auto
This^^^
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Old 02-14-2017, 08:57 PM   #32
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Braves Ring of Honor, yes.

HOF.. hell no.
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:35 PM   #33
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agree, but shortstop and second were different kinda positions back then.....would ozzie even make a mlb roster in this day and age? I dont believe he would...no power, didnt even hit for average.....defense? lol....that gets ya a 2 dollar bowman draft auto
You make it sound like Ozzie was useless as a hitter. He actually had value...less than 150 players in history have more: runs scored than him (146), hits than him (112), walks than him (89), sacrifice hits than him (73), stolen bases than him (22), etc. His career OBP was .337. He was also one of the toughest players to strikeout of his time only striking out once every 16 ABs, (typically in the top 3 in the league).

Was he an offensive force? No. But to say he wouldn't make a roster is ridiculous.
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:42 PM   #34
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Defense combined with his offense and its a yes for me.
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:47 PM   #35
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You make it sound like Ozzie was useless as a hitter. He actually had value...less than 150 players in history have more: runs scored than him (146), hits than him (112), walks than him (89), sacrifice hits than him (73), stolen bases than him (22), etc. His career OBP was .337. He was also one of the toughest players to strikeout of his time only striking out once every 16 ABs, (typically in the top 3 in the league).

Was he an offensive force? No. But to say he wouldn't make a roster is ridiculous.
Give most average players a starting position for 19 years and they can accrue similar numbers. Those numbers you mentioned are mostly a product of time rather than greatness offensively. His batting approach is worth mentioning as you said, though.
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:50 PM   #36
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You make it sound like Ozzie was useless as a hitter. He actually had value...less than 150 players in history have more: runs scored than him (146), hits than him (112), walks than him (89), sacrifice hits than him (73), stolen bases than him (22), etc. His career OBP was .337. He was also one of the toughest players to strikeout of his time only striking out once every 16 ABs, (typically in the top 3 in the league).

Was he an offensive force? No. But to say he wouldn't make a roster is ridiculous.
agree, just saying a guy with zero power, that bats .260 at any position gets no love these days......and that not a soul would spend a dime on a rookie card for a player like this today....much less be discussed at length on a forum like this
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:58 PM   #37
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Give most average players a starting position for 19 years and they can accrue similar numbers. Those numbers you mentioned are mostly a product of time rather than greatness offensively. His batting approach is worth mentioning as you said, though.
That's just it. An average player doesn't play for 19 years. Ozzie was exceptional.
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:59 PM   #38
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Default Is Andruw Jones a HOFer??

I think a lot of people are still discounting the greatness of andruws defense. Just how good he was. It's not like he had a few years in the middle of his career where he got web gems on a weekly basis. Its not like he was just really really good. It's more like this guy was the best center fielder for almost a decade. It's more like he won 10 straight gold gloves. More like he is arguably the best defensive center fielder EVER. Arguably, of course.

Tie that decade of pure defensive dominance in with 423 bombs, 1200 rbis and 1200 runs, I just thought he would eventually get in. Even if it was his last year on the ballot or through the veterans committee.

Wouldn't it seem wrong to have arguably the defensive center fielder with 423 bombs not in the hof?


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Old 02-14-2017, 10:07 PM   #39
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That's just it. An average player doesn't play for 19 years. Ozzie was exceptional.
You're right on the career span. Idk. I guess I see those numbers and see a player who was average to slightly above average for a really long time which isn't very exceptional to me. I'd rather have more offense in a shorter amount of time. I can understand your point of view though.
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:11 PM   #40
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I think a lot of people discounting the greatness of andruws defense. Just how good he was. It's not like he had a few years in the middle of his career where he got web gems on a weekly basis. Its not like he was just really really good. It's more like this guy was the best center fielder for almost a decade. It's more like he won 10 straight gold gloves. More like he is arguably the best defensive center fielder EVER. Arguably, of course.

Tie that decade of pure defensive dominance in with 423 bombs, 1200 rbis and 1200 runs, I just thought he would eventually get in. Even if it was his last year on the ballot or through the veterans committee.

Wouldn't it seem wrong to have arguably the defensive center fielder with 423 bombs not in the hof?
Great points! His name doesn't scream HOF to me like Thome or another big name does. If he gets in, I think it will be after several years of waiting. Kind of like a Jim Rice situation.

This is my initial response to the question from the OP; and your points are similar to what my argument for him to get in would be. Elite defense over more than a decade shouldn't be overlooked. That coupled with 423 HRs has to warrant some strong consideration.
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:16 PM   #41
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Why not? Most people get in eventually
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:20 PM   #42
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This is the top 10 most similar players statistically to Jones according to Baseball Reference.

Dale Murphy (929)
Jose Canseco (882)
Joe Carter (873)
Jim Edmonds (871)
Alfonso Soriano (866)
Gil Hodges (862)
Duke Snider (860) *
Jason Giambi (854)
Paul Konerko (848)
George Foster (847)

Snider is the only player on that list to make the Hall of Fame. These are all great players, but many of them will never be in the Hall. I feel Jones falls into this category. He was great in Atlanta, but he fell off a cliff once he turned 30 and left ATL. I'm not much into advanced statistics, but even his dWAR was in the negatives with a high of 0.0 post ATL. I respect him as a player, but if I had a vote for the HOF, he would not get a vote from me.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:20 PM   #43
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This is the top 10 most similar players statistically to Jones according to Baseball Reference.

Dale Murphy (929)
Jose Canseco (882)
Joe Carter (873)
Jim Edmonds (871)
Alfonso Soriano (866)
Gil Hodges (862)
Duke Snider (860) *
Jason Giambi (854)
Paul Konerko (848)
George Foster (847)

Snider is the only player on that list to make the Hall of Fame. These are all great players, but many of them will never be in the Hall. I feel Jones falls into this category. He was great in Atlanta, but he fell off a cliff once he turned 30 and left ATL. I'm not much into advanced statistics, but even his dWAR was in the negatives with a high of 0.0 post ATL. I respect him as a player, but if I had a vote for the HOF, he would not get a vote from me.
Half of the guys on that list never won a single gold glove. Winning 10 Gold Gloves in a row has to count for something.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:57 PM   #44
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I hope Andruw stays on the ballot a while, but he will probably just go down as the best Dutch position player in the history of baseball...well until Xander overtakes him.

He deserves to be knighted. Sir Andruw Jones sounds good
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Old 02-15-2017, 03:42 AM   #45
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Default no way

#No

One of the more exciting players when he first broke in though.
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Old 02-15-2017, 04:17 AM   #46
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Great post OP. I opened the thread because I figured it was a train wreck since the idea if Jones being a Hall of Famer was crazy to me. I guess the bad years really stuck in my head because his length of career and overall stat lines shocked me.

Based on how good he was defensively, especially playing Centerfield, I think with average hitting stats that he should be a HOFer. I don't see a decent argument why he shouldn't be in the Hall. To have 5 horrible seasons and still have his stats is even more surprising.

One issue that hasn't been discussed is that he had attribute and/or personality conflicts that have to hurt his chances.

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Old 02-15-2017, 06:32 AM   #47
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not even close
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:23 AM   #48
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He's Jim edmonds with a worse average.

Mind you, edmonds was probably better than Trout.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:23 AM   #49
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Quote:
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I think a lot of people are still discounting the greatness of andruws defense. Just how good he was. It's not like he had a few years in the middle of his career where he got web gems on a weekly basis. Its not like he was just really really good. It's more like this guy was the best center fielder for almost a decade. It's more like he won 10 straight gold gloves. More like he is arguably the best defensive center fielder EVER. Arguably, of course.

Tie that decade of pure defensive dominance in with 423 bombs, 1200 rbis and 1200 runs, I just thought he would eventually get in. Even if it was his last year on the ballot or through the veterans committee.

Wouldn't it seem wrong to have arguably the defensive center fielder with 423 bombs not in the hof?
This is where I am as well but I had the benefit of watching his entire career. If someone was to just look solely at the numbers he doesn't measure up. It's too bad about his last few years, they are all some people will look at and judge him by. In his prime he was feared both on offense and defense, he was a beast.

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Mind you, edmonds was probably better than Trout.
Just curious, what does this do for you? Do you get aroused by trolling? It just seems so mindless and pointless to me but yet you appear to get off on it.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:35 AM   #50
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i like this one.
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