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View Poll Results: Who wins the AL MVP?
Mookie Betts 153 49.68%
Francisco Lindor 4 1.30%
JD Martinez 57 18.51%
Jose Ramirez 33 10.71%
Mike Trout 48 15.58%
Other 13 4.22%
Voters: 308. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-16-2018, 04:40 PM   #126
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Aaaahhhhh, so that's why I'll never be entering this thread again. Got it.
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Old 08-16-2018, 04:52 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepsspot View Post
Hahaha, you make it seem like your “internet” vote truly counts!!
My vote doesn't count? Well that sucks
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Old 08-16-2018, 05:50 PM   #128
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My vote doesn't count? Well that sucks
No, we will allow yours. There is always that one vote everyone questions.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:07 PM   #129
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I definitely think it's JD's to lose. It's really hard to argue with that slash line, plus the fact that the Sox are running away with the division. I love Jose Ramirez, but it's really hard to argue that he's anymore valuable than Lindor.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:09 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by seabass97166 View Post
JD IS the favorite in the odds and the polls, articles...everything.
FWIW, this highly scientific poll favors Betts by a longshot, as have all the odds I've seen in Vegas. So...I mean, not really?

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Originally Posted by Stifle View Post
DH's and best years in vote vs DH/OF JD:

2016 Ortiz 5 innings 0 Errors
2014 V Mart 301.1 innings 5 Errors
1995 Edgar M 56. Innings. 2 Errors

2018 JD Martinez 393 innings 0 Errors a quarter of the season to go.

We could add more lesser DH's with good MVP seasons but some players are left off the field to protect the team while JD is left off the field to protect Boston's investment.
Errors are a dreadful way to calculate defensive value. Also, three top six finishes in twenty five years does not bode well for JD's chances.

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Originally Posted by jstasyk1121 View Post
its not the damn WAR award?? it doesnt just go to the guy with the highest WAR...geez guys...

WAR is helpful to a degree...but for you CLEARLY biased Indians fans to just keep repeating how you cannot even fathom a world in where JD Martinez would get votes over Ramirez let alone win the award is ridiculous

you dont have to like it...but to say you cant even imagine a world where he would win...well then that is on you to be honest...
This thread has been a lot of pulling random, unbacked statements out of nowhere, but all of the "CLEARLY biased Indians fans" seem to be in agreement that Mookie and Jose are 1A and 1B. No one is arguing with any bias that it should be Jose, but that he and Mookie are a level above.

It's not the WAR award, but when you combine the fact that JD has a negative defensive value (in limited appearances) AND provided a lesser overall offensive output based on wRC+ (the best offensive aggregator) than Mookie/Trout (by 10% compared to league average) and has been slightly better than Jose (6% now compared to league average), it's very easy to fathom a scenario where he's a distance third or fourth behind some of the others. Less value offensively, defensively, and on the base paths than Mookie. And that argument has nothing to do with WAR.

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Originally Posted by Sportnut08 View Post
So what? The statement he responded to was essentially “I don’t understand how JD will get any votes.” History shows that there’s a very highly likelihood that he not only will garner votes, but win the award. Should, shouldn’t, who cares. We’re talking about what will happen.
In comparison to Miguel Cabrera's triple crown season, Miggy played three times as many innings defensively at a higher caliber of defense while at a premium comparison. Miggy in 2012 is not at all comparable to what JD has done in 2018.

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Originally Posted by rseve43 View Post
WAR is not a stand-alone number, regardless of its intentions. It's one number to be looked at and considered with a player's entire stat line.

To ONLY look at WAR is similar to ONLY looking at batting average, or ONLY looking at Home Runs. We can all agree that it's silly to do so because you miss out on the full context of what the player did for the year. Same with WAR...it's supposed to help quantify an overall value, but it doesn't tell the full story on its own.
WAR is an aggregating stat, finding value from several different statistical categories. It's far from perfect, but to compare that to looking at a single stat like batting average is ignorant when it brings together a lot of different angles.

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Originally Posted by moosetequila View Post
Me and the voters who don't have him in the Top 3
I think this is overlooked in the argument for JD: a lot of the older voters who hate analytics also seem to be bitter toward the DH rule. The newer, more analytically inclined run of voters are more likely to support those who are supported by encompassing analytics. I don't know that a DH wins another MVP without doing something outright historic (like HR records).
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:18 PM   #131
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Never thought a DH would win MVP but I texted former player Kevin Frandsen's show today asking him about it and this was his response. If a former player is cool with, so am I.

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Old 08-16-2018, 10:00 PM   #132
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When money ball came around 25 so years ago, fans were skeptical. Is it so hard to fathom a new form of baseball with rules and managing "Invested Ball". Owners and managers want the highest paid players to be performing at peak levels as many times as possible? Baseball is a entertainment business. If a player like Trout keeps taking 230+ lbs going at 22 mph and then sliding head first into a stationary bag hand first, bad things could happen. If a newly invested outfielder who won a unprecedented 4 weekly awards last season as a OF, who injured himself colliding into a wall was asked to DH roughly 60% of the time. Would that hinder his value to the team or voters who have already selected him twice as player of the week as a DH? If writers are willing to select a player for weekly awards as a DH then isn't it hypocritical to critique a DH as a lesser value performer for the year? If you can earn it for performance in a week, why be hypocritical for a years worth of the same performance "Value" ?

Moose and JustinVerlander : would love to hear the counter on this. "Well ah, and WAR states that................."

To be honest. 3 players : JD, Mookie and JRam would be running away with it in the NL and if Trout wasn't having a off Clutch year he would be sizing up his trophy case. Even with a off clutch year he would be a great choice if he was a NL player. Lindor would be in a heated race for MVP in NL.

I enjoy this thread because members are utilizing data, history and opinions to have a great debate in a sport that should encourage more talk. It's more about debating about what qualities these 5 players who have separated their performance from the rest of the pack have in value more than the next top candidate. I love it.

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Old 08-17-2018, 07:31 PM   #133
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Jose Ramirez another HR #37, has caught JD.

Keeping the pressure on! Lets go!!!
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Old 08-17-2018, 08:10 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seabass97166 View Post
Jose Ramirez another HR #37, has caught JD.

Keeping the pressure on! Lets go!!!
JD doesn't like to be tied for long...look for a HR from him tonight.
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Old 08-17-2018, 09:02 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by 66_Fiat View Post
JD doesn't like to be tied for long...look for a HR from him tonight.
I heard this thread is his motivation, big if true

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Old 08-17-2018, 09:16 PM   #136
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[QUOTE=Stifle;13827538]When money ball came around 25 so years ago, fans were skeptical. Is it so hard to fathom a new form of baseball with rules and managing "Invested Ball". Owners and managers want the highest paid players to be performing at peak levels as many times as possible? Baseball is a entertainment business. If a player like Trout keeps taking 230+ lbs going at 22 mph and then sliding head first into a stationary bag hand first, bad things could happen. If a newly invested outfielder who won a unprecedented 4 weekly awards last season as a OF, who injured himself colliding into a wall was asked to DH roughly 60% of the time. Would that hinder his value to the team or voters who have already selected him twice as player of the week as a DH? If writers are willing to select a player for weekly awards as a DH then isn't it hypocritical to critique a DH as a lesser value performer for the year? If you can earn it for performance in a week, why be hypocritical for a years worth of the same performance "Value" ?

No rebuttals ? With all the critiquing of Martinez, and his value not being worthy of a MVP award. Seems odd that his value was certainly worthy of receiving not one weekly award but two as a the top performer for a week, as a DH. The value of performing on a daily basis to help Boston win hasn't wavered in the weeks he was a weekly winner to any other week.

JV, Moosie, etc ? ? ?

Last edited by Stifle; 08-17-2018 at 09:21 PM.
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Old 08-18-2018, 07:59 AM   #137
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I know nobody wants to give Jose Ramirez the MVP but right now, but he is the most deserving.


Played in almost all the games, WAR leader, plus defense, consistent.

Mookie is right behind. DH is the biggest crutch in all of baseball so Martinez is out.

Trout has been MIA so he’s sitting in 3rd/4th.




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Old 08-18-2018, 10:53 AM   #138
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[QUOTE=Stifle;13830196]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stifle View Post
When money ball came around 25 so years ago, fans were skeptical. Is it so hard to fathom a new form of baseball with rules and managing "Invested Ball". Owners and managers want the highest paid players to be performing at peak levels as many times as possible? Baseball is a entertainment business. If a player like Trout keeps taking 230+ lbs going at 22 mph and then sliding head first into a stationary bag hand first, bad things could happen. If a newly invested outfielder who won a unprecedented 4 weekly awards last season as a OF, who injured himself colliding into a wall was asked to DH roughly 60% of the time. Would that hinder his value to the team or voters who have already selected him twice as player of the week as a DH? If writers are willing to select a player for weekly awards as a DH then isn't it hypocritical to critique a DH as a lesser value performer for the year? If you can earn it for performance in a week, why be hypocritical for a years worth of the same performance "Value" ?

No rebuttals ? With all the critiquing of Martinez, and his value not being worthy of a MVP award. Seems odd that his value was certainly worthy of receiving not one weekly award but two as a the top performer for a week, as a DH. The value of performing on a daily basis to help Boston win hasn't wavered in the weeks he was a weekly winner to any other week.

JV, Moosie, etc ? ? ?
JD will not be the MVP

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Old 08-18-2018, 10:59 AM   #139
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JD is officially the equivalent of Judge from the 2017 MVP thread (but less deserving). Amazing season but it’s not happening this year.
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Old 08-18-2018, 11:01 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neal View Post
I voted Trout for two reasons
- Angels would be the worst team in MLB w/o him
- year in, year out he has been the best since 2012
I know this post is a few days old, but this take continues to be questionable. They're 8-7 since he's been out. Last year, they were 19-20 when he got hurt. I understand the sample size is small, but this is 2 years in a row now where they're basically the same team without him.
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Old 08-18-2018, 11:07 AM   #141
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JD is officially the equivalent of Judge from the 2017 MVP thread (but less deserving). Amazing season but it’s not happening this year.
Yeah, but Altuve's team also won 101 games. 3rd best in baseball, 3 behind LA in the NL, and 1 behind Cleveland in the AL.

This year, Boston currently has 87 wins. No other team has 80. Yankees are closest with 76. Problem is, Betts has missed 20 games.
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Old 08-18-2018, 11:11 AM   #142
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Also, definite no-go on Sale. He's got 12 wins. That doesn't matter for the Cy Young, but it does if a pitcher's going to have a chance to win the MVP. Verlander won 24 that year.
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Old 08-18-2018, 11:22 AM   #143
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Originally Posted by rman112 View Post
Yeah, but Altuve's team also won 101 games. 3rd best in baseball, 3 behind LA in the NL, and 1 behind Cleveland in the AL.

This year, Boston currently has 87 wins. No other team has 80. Yankees are closest with 76. Problem is, Betts has missed 20 games.
I don’t think the 20 games off will hurt Mookie against JD when voters are staring at 2+ gap in WAR between the two. WAR is far from everything but let’s face it, it’s heavily used as a first glance comparison of value and that’s a huge gap to ignore especially when the other contenders are right up there with Mookie.
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Old 08-18-2018, 11:29 AM   #144
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I don’t think the 20 games off will hurt Mookie against JD when voters are staring at 2+ gap in WAR between the two. WAR is far from everything but let’s face it, it’s heavily used as a first glance comparison of value and that’s a huge gap to ignore especially when the other contenders are right up there with Mookie.
But the thing is, Martinez has just been THAT good for Boston.

To me, the question is.. who's played a bigger part of Boston's success? They're pretty much the same team as last year, when they won 93 games. Right now, they're at 87, with 39 games left. Is that moreso because of Betts' improvement, or adding Martinez?
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Old 08-18-2018, 11:34 AM   #145
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Originally Posted by rman112 View Post
I know this post is a few days old, but this take continues to be questionable. They're 8-7 since he's been out. Last year, they were 19-20 when he got hurt. I understand the sample size is small, but this is 2 years in a row now where they're basically the same team without him.
True
Trade him to the Phillies lol

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Old 08-18-2018, 11:58 AM   #146
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But the thing is, Martinez has just been THAT good for Boston.

To me, the question is.. who's played a bigger part of Boston's success? They're pretty much the same team as last year, when they won 93 games. Right now, they're at 87, with 39 games left. Is that moreso because of Betts' improvement, or adding Martinez?
JD was definitely the missing piece for the Red Sox but let’s not go crazy giving him all the credit. He joined a very good ball club and one of the most hitter friendly parks so the benefits are mutual.
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Old 08-18-2018, 12:02 PM   #147
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Basically my point is just because he was the last piece added to the team doesn’t mean he should get all the credit for the extra wins from last year. Add JD, minus Mookie where are they compared to last year?
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Old 08-18-2018, 12:02 PM   #148
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JD was definitely the missing piece for the Red Sox but let’s not go crazy giving him all the credit. He joined a very good ball club and one of the most hitter friendly parks so the benefits are mutual.
Cora and his staff deserve a lot of credit, too.
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Old 08-18-2018, 12:10 PM   #149
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Cora and his staff deserve a lot of credit, too.
Thats right. They run all over the place now, and thats Coras stamp on this team

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Old 08-18-2018, 12:13 PM   #150
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Thats right. They run all over the place now, and thats Coras stamp on this team

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