LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged

[rookies]

Originally Posted by discostu

Really weird post.

You want to save what rookies posted, where he seems to state what happened (he traded the card to Eric/buynicecards and poof, the card gets graded and shows a clearly trimmed edge that was not there before). Seems pretty clear to me what rookies is saying. He didn't say he know Eric trimmed it, he simply knows who he traded it to and then it appeared in the same owners hands graded and trimmed.

That said, the onus of "full disclosure and transparency" does not appear to be on rookies, but on Eric. As others have stated, this does not appear to be an isolated incident regarding trimming with Eric.

Yeah so pretty much exactly this^. The card is trimmed I want that to be known. I wont post again in this thread no matter who comments I just want that to be known so I feel better about it. Also so people can be aware.

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by discostu

Really weird post.

Okay.

Originally Posted by discostu

He didn't say he know Eric trimmed it, he simply knows who he traded it to and then it appeared in the same owners hands graded and trimmed..

Just giving him a chance to clarify. Not all trades are that simple. Maybe this one is. Or maybe there could be other parties. If there aren't then I agree this could potentially be open and shut.

Originally Posted by discostu

As others have stated, this does not appear to be an isolated incident regarding trimming with Eric.

Who else has said something to that effect?



In no way am I a judge and jury here. But I'd suggest that this is a pretty big deal.

There's heck to pay here. Rookies has a chance to present evidence that should indite somebody. If it's Eric, then so be it. But presenting his name and then saying what he said - when combined with the positive dealings that I have had with Eric - leads me to want absolute clarity around what happened to that Lebron. We deserve that. Asking followup questions is a good thing.

[the27guy]

Originally Posted by rookies

Yeah so pretty much exactly this^. The card is trimmed I want that to be known. I wont post again in this thread no matter who comments I just want that to be known so I feel better about it. Also so people can be aware.

Simple question Jack. Did you send that directly to Eric?

[starvela]

Originally Posted by AbraCalabro

Just curious, is scamming and shilling equally as bad as bad as trimming, or is trimming worse? Because I know for a fact that people can do unsavory things and still be considered good guys in the hobby as long as they service the right people. This has nothing to do with BuyNiceCards by the way, I never had any interaction with him. I'm asking in a general capacity.

Trimming is a far worse crime and it's not even close...I have seen it all when it comes to trimming, ALL..I can handle shilling as I only bid what I feel i'm comfortable with, and if a rare card that I really want pops up, I also don't worry about it since it would be impossible to stop it, etc. Do I feel at times I paid an extra $1K or more due to a possible shill, yes, but I really wanted the card, so I didn't care and was just happy card came up available for sale...What I do care is trimming!! I'm actually obsessed with this, I'm always measuring and comparing cards best I can on the computer, to make sure it isn't trimmed!! A trimmed card is the worst for me!! After many years of having OCD when it comes to condition/grades, I'm finally starting to warm up/settle to lesser grades and not worry about this sort of stuff...

[discostu]

If I tell someone that I went straight home, I went straight home.

If someone tells me "The 74 was my (rookies) card. It went straight to him (Eric) in a trade." It seems clear enough.

Rookies stated what he needs. If Eric chooses to counter the story, it's on him. Eric has everything to gain here by countering these serious concerns.

So we know that at least 2 Exquisite Lebron rookies that have been trimmed have been in the hands of Eric. One of which was a trade from a member here that went directly to Eric (buynicecards) untrimmed, then appeared graded after being trimmed shortly after the trade.

Now, does any of this show that Eric trimmed the cards? Nope.

Does it look good for Eric or BGS? Nope.

[theLUCKYshow]

Originally Posted by the27guy

Simple question Jack. Did you send that directly to Eric?

Originally Posted by rookies

The 74 was my card. It went straight to him in a trade.

I interpret this as he sent it directly to Eric.



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[slum22]

Originally Posted by discostu

If I tell someone that I went straight home, I went straight home.

If someone tells me "The 74 was my (rookies) card. It went straight to him (Eric) in a trade." It seems clear enough.

Rookies stated what he needs. If Eric chooses to counter the story, it's on him. Eric has everything to gain here by countering these serious concerns.

So we know that at least 2 Exquisite Lebron rookies that have been trimmed have been in the hands of Eric. One of which was a trade from a member here that went directly to Eric (buynicecards) untrimmed, then appeared graded after being trimmed shortly after the trade.

Now, does any of this show that Eric trimmed the cards? Nope.

Does it look good for Eric or BGS? Nope.

This is exactly right on to me Adam. I respect your opinion on almost everything cardboard related. I think you are quite educated and fair minded. However, in this situation, while I understand you wanting to be fair to somebody you have had positive dealings with, I believe discostu is correct in his assessment here. I have no skin in the game, as I don't know Rookies and I don't know Eric/BuyNiceCards. I also don't have nearly the capacity to buy a Lebron Exquisite RPA in any form. Nevertheless, I believe Rookies has laid out a pretty clear case that Eric/BuyNiceCards is dealing with trimmed cards in one way or another. At this point, it is up to Eric/BuyNiceCards to present his defense or counter. Like you said, this is a really big deal for our hobby.

[the27guy]

I asked Eric if he bought the card from Rookies. He says that he did not.

He says that he's positive he bought it from another individual as a 9 in 2014.

So, again, either Eric is lying - which I think is unlikely - or maybe there is more to Rookies story.

Either way, my clarification questions for Rookies up above still stand.

On another note, I don't ask these questions lightly guys. Someone is going to come out of this looking very badly. It's important that we know what happened. Stay on topic.

[salthill]

(Bangs gavel repeatedly...)
All right, all right, simmer down back there.

Thank you. Internet Court is now in session. Judge Public A. Mob presiding.

Following the well established rules of the court, Eric has been found Guilty on all charges. Sentencing will commence immediately.

Eric, you may now present your defence...

[chuckerrrr]

When truth comes out this is going to be ugly. I dont know either of these guys personally so Im not going to point any fingers at who did this but it is quite clear the card has been trimmed by the photo’s.


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[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by the27guy

Either Eric is lying or Rookies is lying.

Fixed it for you. If we believe you at face value and Eric has voiced his defense ... then either he's lying or Rookies is lying. No gray area, no other possible scenarios. We know the card is trimmed, we know it was done so to greatly increase the value (which it did).

If Rookies would be so kind to provide additional information to the trade, that would go a long way in determining whom to believe.

[minnesotachill]

The Lebron Exquisite #87/99 appears to be submitted to BGS by Eric

If you look at the info I provided in my last post, it looks like the Kareem Abdul Jabbar that was graded in the same order was for sale on his website.

I'm sure if you dug enough, you'd find the Tiger Woods card too.

[theLUCKYshow]

If Eric can show he purchased the card as a 9 from another individual, that would certainly help his defense.

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[the27guy]

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

Fixed it for you. If we believe you at face value and Eric has voiced his defense ... then either he's lying or Rookies is lying. No gray area, no other possible scenarios. We know the card is trimmed, we know it was done so to greatly increase the value (which it did).

If Rookies would be so kind to provide additional information to the trade, that would go a long way in determining whom to believe.

This is why I asked Rookies to clarify. I don't believe Eric is lying. I believe Rookies may be skipping a step to protect a friend. I don't know that. But that's my suspicion.

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by the27guy

This is why I asked Rookies to clarify. I don't believe Eric is lying. I believe Rookies may be skipping a step to protect a friend. I don't know that. But that's my suspicion.

When I was buying up LeBron chrome RC's a few years ago, I spoke with Eric a few times, some back and forth threads about Exquisite value and chrome value and such. I think I may have even purchased a few chrome BGS 10's from him ... (and some PSA 10's too).

No problems whatsoever, great transactions, seems like a nice guy. But that has no bearing on any of this and when it comes to adding $50,000 in value with the touch of a knife, I don't put it past anyone. So we await more details from someone. Otherwise, it's a guessing game.

[slum22]

Originally Posted by the27guy

I asked Eric if he bought the card from Rookies. He says that he did not.

He says that he's positive he bought it from another individual as a 9 in 2014.

So, again, either Eric is lying - which I think is unlikely - or maybe there is more to Rookies story.

Either way, my clarification questions for Rookies up above still stand.

On another note, I don't ask these questions lightly guys. Someone is going to come out of this looking very badly. It's important that we know what happened. Stay on topic.

I don't think anyone has gotten off topic. I think everyone wants clarity on this situation. No one is out here with pitch forks. Rookies has pretty clearly stated his case. We can take you at your word that you have been in conversation with Eric and that he is claiming that someone else owned the card between their ownership.

These are absolutely opposite statements. It seems like both sides should present what evidence they have to back up their positions. Either Eric needs to produce evidence that the card was traded/purchased from someone else or Rookies needs to show evidence that he dealt the card directly to Eric. Maybe I am more OCD about keeping records than most, but if I was trading for/buying/selling a card of this magnitude I am pretty sure I would have some documents (emails, PayPal receipts) pertaining to that transaction. On a much smaller scale, I have purchased a handful of $1k+ cards in my time collecting. If someone asked me, I could produce evidence in the form of email confirmations on everyone of them in minutes. If someone wants to prove their side, it shouldnt' be hard.

[SteveO21]

Originally Posted by the27guy

This is why I asked Rookies to clarify. I don't believe Eric is lying. I believe Rookies may be skipping a step to protect a friend. I don't know that. But that's my suspicion.

and what exactly gives you that suspicion, other than that you've had a few transactions with Eric?

Originally Posted by NeedChapmans

When I was buying up LeBron chrome RC's a few years ago, I spoke with Eric a few times, some back and forth threads about Exquisite value and chrome value and such. I think I may have even purchased a few chrome BGS 10's from him ... (and some PSA 10's too).

No problems whatsoever, great transactions, seems like a nice guy. But that has no bearing on any of this and when it comes to adding $50,000 in value with the touch of a knife, I don't put it past anyone. So we await more details from someone. Otherwise, it's a guessing game.

This.

[rainmaker]

whelp i have the popcorn in microwave!

[DevinKurant]

I've done over $50k in transactions with Rookies. He is the most laid back guy you will ever meet and I highly doubt you hear another word from him on this thread, like he mention above. I would testify all day to his upstanding character and being a purist in the hobby. I would be shocked to my core if he isn't shooting us straight.

[discostu]

Originally Posted by the27guy

I asked Eric if he bought the card from Rookies. He says that he did not.

He says that he's positive he bought it from another individual as a 9 in 2014.

So, again, either Eric is lying - which I think is unlikely - or maybe there is more to Rookies story.

Either way, my clarification questions for Rookies up above still stand.

On another note, I don't ask these questions lightly guys. Someone is going to come out of this looking very badly. It's important that we know what happened. Stay on topic.

Let's for a moment assume that rookies is incorrect and that it wasn't a direct transaction with Eric.

Let's assume for the same moment that when rookies said that instead of a month after he traded away the card it ended up trimmed, in a BGS slab and in the hands of Eric...maybe it was 2-3 months.

In no scenario here is rookies going to look "bad."

We know certain facts right?

- rookies has produced raw images of the card in question showing clear edge damage in his possession.
- Eric (buynicecards) owned the trimmed BGS 9 that rookies' damaged card became.

These seem fairly indisputable. Nothing stating that Eric trimmed the card, or knowingly offering a trimmed card has been implied.

So, Eric (buynicecards) told you that he is positive that he bought the Lebron already graded in 2014. Ok, sounds plausible.

Looking at the BGS serial-numbers (as stated by another user here), the Lebron was graded in 2015...April 24th to be exact.

Here are the 4 cards from that submission:
Card Serial Number: 0008613849
Set Name : 2003-04 Exquisite Collection
Player Name : LeBron James JSY AU RC
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613850
Set Name : 2009-10 Exquisite Collection Rookie Patch Flashback
Player Name : Bill Russell/19
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613851
Set Name : 2009-10 Exquisite Collection Rookie Patch Flashback
Player Name : Kareem Abdul-Jabbar/25
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613852
Set Name : 2013 Upper Deck Tiger Woods Master Collection
Player Name : Tiger Woods PATCH AU/25/ Exquisite Rookie Patch
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Google any of the 4 cards above and you'll find all 4 in Eric's possession at some point. So sure, we could believe that maybe Eric bought this entire submission after they were graded by whomever the rookies was confused that he traded his Lebron to if it wasn't Eric himself.

None of this looks like rookies has any explaining to do.

Eric on the other hand...well...not sure if the gun is still smoking, but this looks bad. He is positive that he bought the Lebron in question in 2014...when it was graded in 2015. When it was received back from BGS with 3 other cards he owned.
Incorrect Lebron being referenced.

[Siberian13]

Who is Eric and is he a member here that can reply? Why does the27guy have to be is legal representative? Get Eric in here to clear his name and all is good.

[theleica]

How does this happen?

[DevinKurant]

Originally Posted by theleica

How does this happen?

As someone insinuated; he or she probably damaged the card when cracking it out of the BGS holder.

[AlabamaSlamma]

Originally Posted by minnesotachill

The BGS 9 Lebron looks like it was part of a 4-card BGS sub in 2015

1. Lebron Exquisite
2. Bill Russell Exquisite Flashback https://www.worthpoint.com/worthoped...ack-1873119705
3. Kareem Exquisite Flashback - graded BGS 9, then was later bumped to a 9.5
(google search shows it was for sale on buynicecards)
4. Tiger Exquisite

Originally Posted by minnesotachill

The Lebron Exquisite #87/99 appears to be submitted to BGS by Eric

If you look at the info I provided in my last post, it looks like the Kareem Abdul Jabbar that was graded in the same order was for sale on his website.

I'm sure if you dug enough, you'd find the Tiger Woods card too.

Originally Posted by discostu

Let's for a moment assume that rookies is incorrect and that it wasn't a direct transaction with Eric.

Let's assume for the same moment that when rookies said that instead of a month after he traded away the card it ended up trimmed, in a BGS slab and in the hands of Eric...maybe it was 2-3 months.

In no scenario here is rookies going to look "bad."

We know certain facts right?

- rookies has produced raw images of the card in question showing clear edge damage in his possession.
- Eric (buynicecards) owned the trimmed BGS 9 that rookies' damaged card became.

These seem fairly indisputable. Nothing stating that Eric trimmed the card, or knowingly offering a trimmed card has been implied.

So, Eric (buynicecards) told you that he is positive that he bought the Lebron already graded in 2014. Ok, sounds plausible.

Looking at the BGS serial-numbers (as stated by another user here), the Lebron was graded in 2015...April 24th to be exact.

Here are the 4 cards from that submission:
Card Serial Number: 0008613849
Set Name : 2003-04 Exquisite Collection
Player Name : LeBron James JSY AU RC
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613850
Set Name : 2009-10 Exquisite Collection Rookie Patch Flashback
Player Name : Bill Russell/19
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613851
Set Name : 2009-10 Exquisite Collection Rookie Patch Flashback
Player Name : Kareem Abdul-Jabbar/25
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Card Serial Number: 0008613852
Set Name : 2013 Upper Deck Tiger Woods Master Collection
Player Name : Tiger Woods PATCH AU/25/ Exquisite Rookie Patch
Date Graded : Friday, April 24, 2015

Google any of the 4 cards above and you'll find all 4 in Eric's possession at some point. So sure, we could believe that maybe Eric bought this entire submission after they were graded by whomever the rookies was confused that he traded his Lebron to if it wasn't Eric himself.

None of this looks like rookies has any explaining to do.

Eric on the other hand...well...not sure if the gun is still smoking, but this looks bad. He is positive that he bought the Lebron in question in 2014...when it was graded in 2015. When it was received back from BGS with 3 other cards he owned.

The card currently in question is rookies' former LBJ Exquisite RPA serially numbered 74/99. The BGS flip number is 0008145826:

https://buynicecards.com/product/200...to-99-bgs-9-10

Card Serial Number: 0008145826
Set Name : 2003-04 Exquisite Collection
Player Name : LeBron James JSY AU RC
Date Graded : Friday, May 16, 2014
Centering Grade : 9.5
Corner Grade : 9.0
Edges Grade : 9.0
Surfaces Grade : 8.5
Autograph Grade 10.0
Final Grade : 9.0

Both of you are referencing grading details for 87/99. These are not the same cards.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by theleica

How does this happen?

Either bad job cracking it out or bad job trimming.

Copy 74 is clear as day trimmed. Left edge damage gone and bottom left corner much sharper. If it really used to be a BGS 7.5 like rookies says, it was probably this one:

https://www.beckett.com/grading/card...4524354&flag=1

How awesome would it be for BGS to capture an image along the grading process of high-end cards?