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Old 05-08-2017, 04:46 PM   #1
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Default Ok NT haters you finally got me this year

Every year I take junk from you guys for being an NT jocker but this is the 1st year where I can say they dropped the ball.

Now don't get me wrong I am not backtracking, I still like NT overall more than Immaculate or Flawless (wait til you guys see the disaster with those this year) but with this rookie class, a product that lives and dies on RPAs is just not gonna work well.

Maybe the most disappointing thing here is after a pretty cool design last year they made it... whiter. I like the simple style of NT but like does it get any more plain and basic than even some of the monster hits like the 1/1 sig inscriptions?

I barely messed around with it this year and if I was getting killed at $430 a box, I can't even imagine $600+.
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Old 05-08-2017, 05:08 PM   #2
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I simply stayed away from it this year. Found it too expensive and been on a bad run in terms of luck with basketball products. Might pick up some RPAs in the off season when things are quiet.
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:08 PM   #3
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I simply stayed away from it this year. Found it too expensive and been on a bad run in terms of luck with basketball products. Might pick up some RPAs in the off season when things are quiet.
Yea I mean that has to be the smartest move unless you see a /5 or 1/1 u want. If they add an Simmons autos to anything that could be a mess for values and even if they never do the prices aren't gonna go up on any of the big rookies because they are out of the playoffs already.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:39 PM   #4
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Dejounte murray still in the playoffs.
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Old 05-08-2017, 10:51 PM   #5
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Dejounte murray still in the playoffs.
Yea but look at his prices, yikes
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Old 05-09-2017, 04:00 AM   #6
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Dejounte murray still in the playoffs.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:14 AM   #7
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Two words describe this product...



And I duno how people are cool going solely with Panini's "word" about the authenticity of their jerseys/patches.

I love certain Panini sets, but this product AT THIS PRICEPOINT is insane.
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Old 05-09-2017, 05:22 AM   #8
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Two words describe this product...



And I duno how people are cool going solely with Panini's "word" about the authenticity of their jerseys/patches.

I love certain Panini sets, but this product AT THIS PRICEPOINT is insane.
The wording on Panini cards is a huge reason I just dumped my patches of theirs a week ago.

"This material is guaranteed by Panini"

What a joke
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Old 05-09-2017, 08:49 AM   #9
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I'll defend this product a bit.

Go watch 2012-13 NT breaks. The case run is exactly the same (3750 cases according to checklist).

You average 1 RPA a case where as 16/17 is roughly 3 every other case, even though I've seen cases with 4.

12/13 you'd get 1, maybe 2 patch cards per case. 16/17 I've seen roughly 3-4 patches. Not only that but the patch/jersey sets are infinitely nicer in 16/17. The "Colossal" set back then was horrific compared to what it is now.

You have 66 total RPAs vs 48 for this year. Sure you have some big names, but you're not covering the case price with those (and you'll only get one). Even if we compared RPA prices today for 12/13 ($3000 Kawhi) vs what the case price initially was ($1200), only 3 guys are going to "win" for you. So 1 out of every 22 cases can be considered a win.

12/13 has RPAs and Notable Nicknames. It's doesn't have any other desirable sets.

You think NT is a sticker fest now? Go watch 12/13 breaks. 5 on card Autos in a case. Roughly 6-8 sticker Autos, and one of your Autos is guaranteed to be a worthless dual auto, and you will pull one of those every single box. Sure you could hit the dual Kyrie/Davis auto, but you'd be better off hitting their Colossal Auto from 16/17 from a financial standpoint. Not to mention the Colossal is an on card auto and just looks nicer.

Im not saying that 16/17 is some world-beater product, but considering what NT was even 5 years ago, with a dual rookie class and some stacked names, I'd open this years any day over 12/13.

Design wise NT has come a long way. I'm not talking about just the RPAs, because this years are still growing on me (although I love the jumbo patches), but top to bottom.

Base cards have progressively gotten better.
Jersey/Patch sets have gotten better.
Auto sets have gotten better.

As a whole I truly believe NT has gotten better. Those initial NT runs, the set (minus the RPA) looks more like 14/15 retail Excalibur than anything resembling a high-end product.

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Old 05-09-2017, 09:01 AM   #10
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Every NT product put out in the past year has been a joke. Panini better keep it's greed in check in 2017 or it might collapse in 2018.
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:52 AM   #11
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Every NT product put out in the past year has been a joke. Panini better keep it's greed in check in 2017 or it might collapse in 2018.
It will never happen. Group breakers bust tons of panini products, even if the product is crap
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Old 05-09-2017, 09:55 AM   #12
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As a whole I truly believe NT has gotten better. Those initial NT runs, the set (minus the RPA) looks more like 14/15 retail Excalibur than anything resembling a high-end product.
I agree. People would be changing their tunes if there were a couple big rookies to chase.

That said i'm amazed the prices people are paying for some of the RPAs and Jumbo patches. I know it helps that inventory is low at the moment do to less breaking it than in past years. But buyers are really bailing sellers out at the moment on some of these cards.

The NT hype is still strong.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:34 AM   #13
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I agree. People would be changing their tunes if there were a couple big rookies to chase.

That said i'm amazed the prices people are paying for some of the RPAs and Jumbo patches. I know it helps that inventory is low at the moment do to less breaking it than in past years. But buyers are really bailing sellers out at the moment on some of these cards.

The NT hype is still strong.
How would you know if buyers are actually paying them prices? Just too many shill bidders jacking up prices plus non-paying buyers. e-bay is played to make it look that way so the product will sell. Panini is garbage if you look at how many damaged cards coming out of NT!
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:50 AM   #14
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I thought last year's product was the best between RPA, Colossals, Patches and Night Moves, maybe that's why I'm disappointed in this years.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:54 AM   #15
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It will never happen. Group breakers bust tons of panini products, even if the product is crap
If enough people lose their shirts for long enough, it will definitely happen. Sadly, it isn't really Panini's fault. No idea what happened to MAP pricing, but if I were them I'd reinstate it. NT cost isn't going up, but the distributors and retailers are overcharging the heck out of those buying. It makes Panini look very bad. It happens with Topps too, but it's not nearly as apparent.
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Old 05-09-2017, 10:58 AM   #16
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If enough people lose their shirts for long enough, it will definitely happen. Sadly, it isn't really Panini's fault. No idea what happened to MAP pricing, but if I were them I'd reinstate it. NT cost isn't going up, but the distributors and retailers are overcharging the heck out of those buying. It makes Panini look very bad. It happens with Topps too, but it's not nearly as apparent.
I tend to agree it will never happen. THis year is a perfect case. Sticker autos galore and weak rc class. A lot of big names missing from logoman auto set and people are still group breaking like no tomorrow. 100s of cases being broken weekly non stop whether cards are coming out or not. All the middle men are making a killing at this point. It switches hands at the very least 3 times between manufactuer to end user. Each time, someone makes pts off the product.

Im perfectly fine with all the middle men making the money now. I mean they take all the risk of buying and holding product. They should rightfully reap the rewards of that risk
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:20 AM   #17
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If enough people lose their shirts for long enough, it will definitely happen. Sadly, it isn't really Panini's fault. No idea what happened to MAP pricing, but if I were them I'd reinstate it. NT cost isn't going up, but the distributors and retailers are overcharging the heck out of those buying. It makes Panini look very bad. It happens with Topps too, but it's not nearly as apparent.
How would MAP fix anything? Distributors are overcharging people for cases MAP simply sets a price floor for advertisements so it solves absolutely nothing in this case.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:40 AM   #18
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How would MAP fix anything? Distributors are overcharging people for cases MAP simply sets a price floor for advertisements so it solves absolutely nothing in this case.
MAP used to be the floor AND ceiling. At least I was under the impression that was the case.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:41 AM   #19
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I tend to agree it will never happen. THis year is a perfect case. Sticker autos galore and weak rc class. A lot of big names missing from logoman auto set and people are still group breaking like no tomorrow. 100s of cases being broken weekly non stop whether cards are coming out or not. All the middle men are making a killing at this point. It switches hands at the very least 3 times between manufactuer to end user. Each time, someone makes pts off the product.

Im perfectly fine with all the middle men making the money now. I mean they take all the risk of buying and holding product. They should rightfully reap the rewards of that risk
I'm out. Was never a big buyer, but joined baseball and football NT breaks pretty regularly. There is no way I join an NT break in the near future. For me to even consider it I'm going to need to see quite a few cases that even come remotely close to meeting cost.
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Old 05-09-2017, 11:53 AM   #20
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I'm out. Was never a big buyer, but joined baseball and football NT breaks pretty regularly. There is no way I join an NT break in the near future. For me to even consider it I'm going to need to see quite a few cases that even come remotely close to meeting cost.
I think your problem was buying NT baseball and Football. The worst sports for breaking high end products. Baseball even worse with Panini becaue they cant even use logos.

NT football and basketball are the same price coming out of the gate. Outside of hitting a Dak, you lost your shirt. In basketball, you could hit numerous RPAs that would keep you in the game. If you are comparing NT to year over year, its has slowed down. If you are comparing it to other sports, NT basketball does much better by miles vs NT football and baseball.
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:01 PM   #21
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MAP used to be the floor AND ceiling. At least I was under the impression that was the case.
Ahh, yes I'm pretty sure it's floor only. I've never heard of a maximum advertised price option although some companies may use that term.
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:10 PM   #22
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I think your problem was buying NT baseball and Football. The worst sports for breaking high end products. Baseball even worse with Panini becaue they cant even use logos.

NT football and basketball are the same price coming out of the gate. Outside of hitting a Dak, you lost your shirt. In basketball, you could hit numerous RPAs that would keep you in the game. If you are comparing NT to year over year, its has slowed down. If you are comparing it to other sports, NT basketball does much better by miles vs NT football and baseball.
IF you hit an RPA. Truth is, card quality has deteriorated significantly over the years. More stickers, less big names, poor design, etc. NT baseball WAS a heck of a product. Many baseball collectors would tell you 2012 NT was the best baseball product of the past decade.

And are there really that many basketball RPA's that fetch $1250 or more this year? That puts you at half your case cost and you're going to need that in order to win on this one.

I just did a quick eBay search and it looks like if you don't hit an RPA #/10 or better of one of the top three, you lose.
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:11 PM   #23
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Ahh, yes I'm pretty sure it's floor only. I've never heard of a maximum advertised price option although some companies may use that term.
My LCS always made it seem like that was the number they HAD to sell at. Then again, they're direct. Might be a completely different story.
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:16 PM   #24
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IF you hit an RPA. Truth is, card quality has deteriorated significantly over the years. More stickers, less big names, poor design, etc. NT baseball WAS a heck of a product. Many baseball collectors would tell you 2012 NT was the best baseball product of the past decade.

And are there really that many basketball RPA's that fetch $1250 or more this year? That puts you at half your case cost and you're going to need that in order to win on this one.

I just did a quick eBay search and it looks like if you don't hit an RPA #/10 or better of one of the top three, you lose.
Even if you hit the best card in NT football you lost. In my opinion a case of NT basketball will yeild you more of a return than football. Thats taking into factor that basketball didnt really have anyone to hype vs football that had 2 guys that went gangbusters (EZE & Dak). Imagine what a hyped up rc class would have done for NT basketball?
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Old 05-09-2017, 12:20 PM   #25
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IF you hit an RPA. Truth is, card quality has deteriorated significantly over the years. More stickers, less big names, poor design, etc. NT baseball WAS a heck of a product. Many baseball collectors would tell you 2012 NT was the best baseball product of the past decade.

And are there really that many basketball RPA's that fetch $1250 or more this year? That puts you at half your case cost and you're going to need that in order to win on this one.

I just did a quick eBay search and it looks like if you don't hit an RPA #/10 or better of one of the top three, you lose.
The only guy I've seen with somewhat consistent sales of $1250+ are ingram and you pretty much have to hit a /25 to make any money.

Idk why people buy this product TBH it's nearly impossible to make any profit at this point
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