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Old 08-27-2011, 01:38 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by cp3fan18261 View Post
You are right, but there are only 8 keepers, the 8 other teams wanted better players as they didn't have people worth keeping, so is it still fair? Now I kind of get how its fair.
Based on what you've said, you got these picks:

16:
32:
33:
64:
65:

The owner with the #1 pick got these picks:

1:
17:
48:
49:
etc.

I'd much rather be the owner with the #1 pick, getting 2 picks in the top 17 rather than you who got just 1 pick in the top 31. In a 16 team league players dry up fast. I'd love for you to post his team, I bet it looks like it's the best in the league as of right now. He has 2 difference makes with his #1 and #17 picks.
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:44 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by MasterPattie View Post
Based on what you've said, you got these picks:

16:
32:
33:
64:
65:

The owner with the #1 pick got these picks:



I'd much rather be the owner with the #1 pick, getting 2 picks in the top 17 rather than you who got just 1 pick in the top 31. In a 16 team league players dry up fast. I'd love for you to post his team, I bet it looks like it's the best in the league as of right now. He has 2 difference makes with his #1 and #17 picks.
1: Adrian Peterson
17: Roddy White
48: Beanie Wells
49: Mike Williams
etc.

But I feel after that his team is not great.
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:45 PM   #28
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1: Adrian Peterson
17: Roddy White
48: Beanie Wells
49: Mike Williams
etc.

But I feel after that his team is not great.
Lol, yeah, he kinda reached with Beanie there.

But still, he has 2 difference makers in Peterson and White. So, he got to pick TWICE at the top of both the 1st and 2nd rounds. Makes no sense.
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:46 PM   #29
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Yes, thats still fair... at least as long as the protected players is determined before the keeper round starts.

For example, If the second place team in the league (the guy you beat for the championship) had Adrian Peterson and Ray Rice on his team, you know he can only keep one. We know you had MJD, and won the league.

So if you did a standard snaking draft with a keeper round, you'd have the #1 overall pick so that when the real draft starts, pick #17 goes to the last place team. But if you had the #1 in the keeper round, you would know you can just not keep anyone (losing MJD) because you'd get either Peterson or Ray Rice. Way too unfair of an advantage for the first place team to have.

On the other hand, when you have the last pick of the keeper round, you pretty much know the safe bet is to just keep MJD. But if you started snaking immediately, then that would essentially give you, the league champion, the #1 overall pick (pick #17) after the keeper round. Also unfair in a 16 team league.

Do the worst teams get a little bit of an advantage doing things the way your league does it? Sure, but why would any of the bad teams agree to play in a dynasty 16 team league with a keeper round if you pretty much know you have very little chance of ever drastically improving from one year to the next? In a 10 team league, this format would be too much advantage to the worst teams, but in a 16 team league it gives the worst a slight advantage with the assumption that if you did well last year you probably have a sweet keeper pick to help you remain strong. If you don't like being in that position, well, just don't do so well in your league this year
You know what, I think the worst teams do get advantages because of how the picks are, and the better teams (me and the other guy in the championship), get a little disadvantage, but study football and strategize their picks well, so it really is almost equal because the worst teams still will have a weak team after there first 4 picks, and last years best teams can strategize well and will pick good value players (Blount, Jones, MJD, Harvin, Freeman, ect. ). And yes, the keeper is selected before the draft starts.
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:52 PM   #30
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But the #1 pick probably got to choose from players like Michael Turner, Darren McFadden and Roddy White, not Adrian Peterson, Arian Foster, and Ray Rice.

The worst team in a 16 team league has a LONG climb to get to the top. Giving them a Michael Turner and then making them wait all the way until the next best player when they pick again is Mike Williams or Greg Jennings is way too unfair when the guy with Adrian Peterson as a keeper also might get to take a guy like Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson with their first pick.

Making the keeper round mandatory would be more fair, but given the way this league is setup, the way the commish has it is pretty much the only way its fair to the bad teams from the previous year. It definitely puts the league champ at a little bit of a disadvantage, but thats a far more fair way of doing it than giving the league champ an additional advantage... which is what either getting the #1 keeper pick OR the #17 overall pick would do.
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:55 PM   #31
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But the #1 pick probably got to choose from players like Michael Turner, Darren McFadden and Roddy White, not Adrian Peterson, Arian Foster, and Ray Rice.

The worst team in a 16 team league has a LONG climb to get to the top. Giving them a Michael Turner and then making them wait all the way until the next best player when they pick again is Mike Williams or Greg Jennings is way too unfair when the guy with Adrian Peterson as a keeper also might get to take a guy like Fitzgerald or Calvin Johnson with their first pick.

Making the keeper round mandatory would be more fair, but given the way this league is setup, the way the commish has it is pretty much the only way its fair to the bad teams from the previous year. It definitely puts the league champ at a little bit of a disadvantage, but thats a far more fair way of doing it than giving the league champ an additional advantage... which is what either getting the #1 keeper pick OR the #17 overall pick would do.
No, they could get Adrian Peterson, Ray Rice, or even Jamaal Charles. But then they have the 17th pick which could give them Roddy White, Jennings, but after that, they are on there own, no more easy picks. and the champion does get a little disadvantage, but I can still contend for another championship with my team, (in my opinion).
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:57 PM   #32
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But the #1 pick probably got to choose from players like Michael Turner, Darren McFadden and Roddy White, not Adrian Peterson, Arian Foster, and Ray Rice.
But the owner with the #1 pick (which is really the #17 pick) already got to draft Adrian Peterson in the keeper round. See, he already has one of those studs before getting to select from the players you mention here.
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Old 08-27-2011, 01:59 PM   #33
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You know what, I think the worst teams do get advantages because of how the picks are, and the better teams (me and the other guy in the championship), get a little disadvantage, but study football and strategize their picks well, so it really is almost equal because the worst teams still will have a weak team after there first 4 picks, and last years best teams can strategize well and will pick good value players (Blount, Jones, MJD, Harvin, Freeman, ect. ). And yes, the keeper is selected before the draft starts.
This is exactly the theory behind how its setup. Keeper and/or dynasty leagues aren't meant to give a best teams a significant advantage year to year. Dynasty leagues SHOULD be arranged to give a worst team from the previous year the most advantage going into the draft the next year. And in a 16 team league that becomes way more difficult if there are keepers involved.

I actually really like the way your league is seup! I think if I ever did a 16 team dynasty league I'd set it up the same way. It sucks on draft day as the league champion, but chances are if you are capable of winning the previous year you either have a player and/or drafting ability to overcome and be competitive again this year.
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:03 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ohiomike View Post
This is exactly the theory behind how its setup. Keeper and/or dynasty leagues aren't meant to give a best teams a significant advantage year to year. Dynasty leagues SHOULD be arranged to give a worst team from the previous year the most advantage going into the draft the next year. And in a 16 team league that becomes way more difficult if there are keepers involved.

I actually really like the way your league is seup! I think if I ever did a 16 team dynasty league I'd set it up the same way. It sucks on draft day as the league champion, but chances are if you are capable of winning the previous year you either have a player and/or drafting ability to overcome and be competitive again this year.
Exactly, I agree. Although my picks are limited, I made the best of them, and I feel that Blount and Jones will be top-15 RB's, MJD- Top 10, and Freeman Top-12 QB, and Stafford Top-15, Harvin- Top 20, and I will try to get another WR to help in case Burleson or Simpson don't play well.
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:04 PM   #35
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But the owner with the #1 pick (which is really the #17 pick) already got to draft Adrian Peterson in the keeper round. See, he already has one of those studs before getting to select from the players you mention here.
Which is completely fine.

Thats not likely a typical result as I'm sure the guy who owned Peterson last year either had Foster or Rice or maybe even one of the top QB's (depending on scoring settings) and he liked them more. Since whoever his two beasts were are now split up, its unlikely that a single owner will own 2 of the top 5 picks going into next years draft.

Again, the worst team in a 16 team league SHOULD be given the first chance to switch keepers for the best remaining player AND have the first live draft pick. Giving either to the league champion of the previous year is making the rich richer. Thats not what pre-draft setups should do in dynasty leagues.
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:04 PM   #36
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But the owner with the #1 pick (which is really the #17 pick) already got to draft Adrian Peterson in the keeper round. See, he already has one of those studs before getting to select from the players you mention here.
Right, but after AP and maybe Jennings, Roddy White, then he has no clear-cut great picks.
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:07 PM   #37
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Which is completely fine.

Thats not likely a typical result as I'm sure the guy who owned Peterson last year either had Foster or Rice or maybe even one of the top QB's (depending on scoring settings) and he liked them more. Since whoever his two beasts were are now split up, its unlikely that a single owner will own 2 of the top 5 picks going into next years draft.

Again, the worst team in a 16 team league SHOULD be given the first chance to switch keepers for the best remaining player AND have the first live draft pick. Giving either to the league champion of the previous year is making the rich richer. Thats not what pre-draft setups should do in dynasty leagues.
Even after the last place team gets two great players, then after those, the picks aren't as easy as I mentioned, and the former champion and 2nd place finisher get good value picks and a very good keeper ( MJD and Foster).
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:09 PM   #38
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Right, but after AP and maybe Jennings, Roddy White, then he has no clear-cut great picks.
But he still has 2 studs in AP and White.

cp3fan, picking 16 and then not again until 32, only has 1 clear cut great pick in MJD.

Think of it this way, for the first 2 rounds (the keeper round and then the start of the "regular" draft), the owner picked #1 and #17 overall, that's an average of 9. cp3fan on the other hand picked #16 and #32 overall, that's an average of 24. Clearly, at the top of the draft, the owner with the #1 pick has a huge advantage. Now, after the first two or three rounds, the picks begin to average out for every team. But that doesn't change the fact that the owner with the #1 pick had a huge advantage early in the draft.
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:11 PM   #39
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Exactly, I agree. Although my picks are limited, I made the best of them, and I feel that Blount and Jones will be top-15 RB's, MJD- Top 10, and Freeman Top-12 QB, and Stafford Top-15, Harvin- Top 20, and I will try to get another WR to help in case Burleson or Simpson don't play well.
Well nothing against MJD, but if you found a way to win a 16 team league with MJD being your best player, I'm sure you'll be fine in any situation you encounter year to year. You must draft really well and make good waiver changes to your team. It sucks not being able to upgrade your keeper, but in any league I've ever been in, if the league champ was also able upgrade to Peterson OR get the #1 pick after keepers it would cause serious issues with the other members of the league. But hey, at least you should have #1 priority spot on the waiver wire. That could come in handy for you.
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:13 PM   #40
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But he still has 2 studs in AP and White.

cp3fan, picking 16 and then not again until 32, only has 1 clear cut great pick in MJD.

Think of it this way, for the first 2 rounds (the keeper round and then the start of the "regular" draft), the owner picked #1 and #17 overall, that's an average of 9. cp3fan on the other hand picked #16 and #32 overall, that's an average of 24. Clearly, at the top of the draft, the owner with the #1 pick has a huge advantage. Now, after the first two or three rounds, the picks begin to average out for every team. But that doesn't change the fact that the owner with the #1 pick had a huge advantage early in the draft.
I understand your logic, but I guess the commissioner figures that after the worst teams great picks, there aren't as easy, and the former champ has MJD as a keeper, and back to back picks in the 30's ( Blount, Felix Jones) both solid running backs, and can make better picks towards the end, as he had won last year, (Reggie Bush, Mccoy, Stafford, Jared Cook).
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:16 PM   #41
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I understand your logic, but I guess the commissioner figures that after the worst teams great picks, there aren't as easy, and the former champ has MJD as a keeper, and back to back picks in the 30's ( Blount, Felix Jones) both solid running backs, and can make better picks towards the end, as he had won last year, (Reggie Bush, Mccoy, Stafford, Jared Cook).
Well I guess it does if the commish of your league wants to really, and I mean, really reward the terrible teams from the year before big time and punish the teams who did well last year. I would never be in a league like that.

I have been in keeper leagues before. No matter what, the draft always snakes (and I mean, snakes from the start of the draft). Most leagues are like that.
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:16 PM   #42
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Well nothing against MJD, but if you found a way to win a 16 team league with MJD being your best player, I'm sure you'll be fine in any situation you encounter year to year. You must draft really well and make good waiver changes to your team. It sucks not being able to upgrade your keeper, but in any league I've ever been in, if the league champ was also able upgrade to Peterson OR get the #1 pick after keepers it would cause serious issues with the other members of the league. But hey, at least you should have #1 priority spot on the waiver wire. That could come in handy for you.
I know, but to be honest, I have had MJD both years I won the championship, so I really believe he is in for a great year, as well as Jones without Barber, Blount being the clear starter, Harvin with a real QB, and Freeman being so consistent.
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:18 PM   #43
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Well I guess it does if the commish of your league wants to really, and I mean, really reward the terrible teams from the year before big time and punish the teams who did well last year. I would never be in a league like that.

I have been in keeper leagues before. No matter what, the draft always snakes (and I mean, snakes from the start of the draft). Most leagues are like that.
I know, but I still think I can contend with my team, and he must think that also with the second place player from last year, and the worst teams get rewarded.
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:19 PM   #44
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But he still has 2 studs in AP and White.

cp3fan, picking 16 and then not again until 32, only has 1 clear cut great pick in MJD.

Think of it this way, for the first 2 rounds (the keeper round and then the start of the "regular" draft), the owner picked #1 and #17 overall, that's an average of 9. cp3fan on the other hand picked #16 and #32 overall, that's an average of 24. Clearly, at the top of the draft, the owner with the #1 pick has a huge advantage. Now, after the first two or three rounds, the picks begin to average out for every team. But that doesn't change the fact that the owner with the #1 pick had a huge advantage early in the draft.
You can't use average draft positions in the first 2 rounds to evaluate how fair the league is. The fact that #16 happened to be MJD in this case is probably HIGHLY unusual. Not many 16 team leagues are won with MJD being the best player on the roster. #16 next year could just as easily be the best player in the league heading into next year's draft.

The league setup is fair. The fact that MJD is the OP's best player is unfortunate, but is neither here nor there. Drafts in dynasty leagues with keepers are usually setup on the theory that the best teams in the league usually also have some of the best players. The fact that the rank of the OP's keeper kind of matches the #16 spot he got kept in should not factor into the equation as I'm sure that is a unique situation.
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:23 PM   #45
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cp3fan, if you have time, could you post the complete #1-32 picks of your draft this year?
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:27 PM   #46
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You can't use average draft positions in the first 2 rounds to evaluate how fair the league is. The fact that #16 happened to be MJD in this case is probably HIGHLY unusual. Not many 16 team leagues are won with MJD being the best player on the roster. #16 next year could just as easily be the best player in the league heading into next year's draft.

The league setup is fair. The fact that MJD is the OP's best player is unfortunate, but is neither here nor there. Drafts in dynasty leagues with keepers are usually setup on the theory that the best teams in the league usually also have some of the best players. The fact that the rank of the OP's keeper kind of matches the #16 spot he got kept in should not factor into the equation as I'm sure that is a unique situation.
You're still not addressing the fact that the owner got the #1 pick in both the keeper portion (which he used to select Peterson) and the #1 pick again in the regular draft (#17 overall, which he used to select White).

Let's start here. Please explain how this is fair? It would make much more sense if the owner, who got the #1 pick in the keeper round, got the last pick in the regular round. After all, he had the #1 pick!
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:44 PM   #47
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cp3fan, if you have time, could you post the complete #1-32 picks of your draft this year?
1. Adrian Peterson, RB Minnesota
2. Arian Foster, RB Houston
3. Chris Johnson, RB Tennessee
4. Jamaal Charles, RB Kansas City
5. Ray Rice, RB Baltimore
6. Matt Forte, RB Chicago
7. Aaron Rodgers, QB Green Bay
8. Michael Vick, QB Philadelphia
9. Andre Johnson, WR Houston
10. Calvin Johnson, WR Detroit
11. Rashard Mendenhall, RB Pittsburgh
12. Greg Jennings, WR Green Bay
13. LeSean McCoy, RB Philadelphia
14. Darren McFadden, RB Oakland
15. Frank Gore, RB San Francisco
16. Maurice Jones Drew, RB Jacksonville
17. Roddy White, WR Atlanta
18. Peyton Hillis, RB Cleveland
19. Peyton Manning, QB Indianapolis
20. Drew Brees, QB New Orleans
21. Philip Rivers, QB San Diego
22. Hakeem Nicks, WR NY Giants,
23. Steven Jackson, RB St. Louis
24. Tom Brady, QB New England
25. Michael Turner, RB Atlanta
26. Dwayne Bowe, WR Kansas City
27. Shonn Greene, RB NY Jets
28. Miles Austin, WR Dallas
29. Mike Wallace, WR Pittsburgh
30. Brandon Lloud, WR Denver
31. Deangelo Williams, RB Carolina
32. LeGarrette Blount, RB Tampa Bay

Last edited by cp3fan18261; 08-27-2011 at 05:51 PM.
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:55 PM   #48
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you will definitely be able to ditch a few rbs for wrs by week 2. loading up on rb's is PURE GOLD in fantasy
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Old 08-27-2011, 05:56 PM   #49
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That is such a screwy way to conduct a draft. It pretty much penalizes you for keeping a player. My problem is that it's not strictly a keeper league but a hybrid league with no defined format. As a commish I would scrap keepers or make keeping a player mandatory.

I didn't read the entire thread but agree with masterpattie that cp3fan got screwed with the draft order. He should've had 16 and 17.
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Old 08-27-2011, 06:32 PM   #50
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you will definitely be able to ditch a few rbs for wrs by week 2. loading up on rb's is PURE GOLD in fantasy
Which RB's would you ditch?
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