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Old 08-06-2017, 11:27 AM   #101
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Still not saying his are real... but all cards are layered paper. You could probably peel back layers of any card. As for paint bleeding through. It depends what type of painto and what type of paper. Not sure those pictures actually prove much. I think he damned himself much more with his reference pics.
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Old 08-06-2017, 11:29 AM   #102
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If they were going to destroy the card anyways, I'd say to gently scratch at the surface with a pen knife and see if any paint scrapes off.
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Old 08-06-2017, 01:24 PM   #103
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Wow, that video is hilarious and cringe worthy! No artist works that way, clearly he is doing something to deceive. That said, he is an artist and has some abilities. The red flag is how inconsistent his work is. As others have said, he's just using an old artist technique to photo transfer, rework the surface a bit and varnish (matte medium in this case) it to make it look painted. Not on all of the work but definitely some of it. It's lazy and he's trying to make a quick and easy buck off the collectors. Just my 2 cents, now back to making actual art.
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Old 08-06-2017, 01:51 PM   #104
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The question I have is what do his tattoos he does look like?

Does he have people stick their arm in a printer? Lol (sadly there's no stock images on Google of that)

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Old 08-06-2017, 03:00 PM   #105
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Get your rotten tomatoes ready...

I find it humorous that so many people are such avid collectors of realistic sketch cards, never considering how they are made. Then they find out how the sausage is made and pitch a fit.

What one person calls stealing or ripping off, another just calls technique. Is it really any better if he light boxes or even free-hand draws a carbon copy of a reference? Art is in the eye of the beholder, and there are many ways to create artistic pieces.

Lying about how things are made, that is a different story and is altogether an unacceptable practice.
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Old 08-06-2017, 03:32 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Get your rotten tomatoes ready...

I find it humorous that so many people are such avid collectors of realistic sketch cards, never considering how they are made. Then they find out how the sausage is made and pitch a fit.

What one person calls stealing or ripping off, another just calls technique. Is it really any better if he light boxes or even free-hand draws a carbon copy of a reference? Art is in the eye of the beholder, and there are many ways to create artistic pieces.

Lying about how things are made, that is a different story and is altogether an unacceptable practice.
If you are freehand recreating a picture of a person that is is way different than light boxing or printing out the image and slapping some texture on it. There are many forms of art, but these are sketch cards, they should be from scratch.
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Old 08-06-2017, 03:57 PM   #107
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I wouldn't be surprised to see a place like becket or some art grading service start offering services that the sketch you send in has been verified as be authentic sketch from scratch. Cause the subject is becoming blurred now as what is real art sketch and a modified piece of art. And this will only get worst as times goes by and it goes unchecked and technology get better.
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Old 08-06-2017, 04:04 PM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Get your rotten tomatoes ready...



I find it humorous that so many people are such avid collectors of realistic sketch cards, never considering how they are made. Then they find out how the sausage is made and pitch a fit.



What one person calls stealing or ripping off, another just calls technique. Is it really any better if he light boxes or even free-hand draws a carbon copy of a reference? Art is in the eye of the beholder, and there are many ways to create artistic pieces.



Lying about how things are made, that is a different story and is altogether an unacceptable practice.

I honestly prefer styles like locoduck or Brad Hudson that are more stylized than photorealistic.

There's more than enough base cards out there, I want something original or that doesn't look the same as a base card.


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Old 08-06-2017, 04:35 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsmallvillelvr View Post
If you are freehand recreating a picture of a person that is is way different than light boxing or printing out the image and slapping some texture on it. There are many forms of art, but these are sketch cards, they should be from scratch.
That may be your expectation, but may not be the artists contractual obligation.

Where do stencils fall in your definition of "from scratch"? Why is copying free-hand okay but tracing unacceptable? It's not like the final product is any different.

If you are happy with the card in your hand, stay ignorant and happy.
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Old 08-06-2017, 04:50 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Get your rotten tomatoes ready...

I find it humorous that so many people are such avid collectors of realistic sketch cards, never considering how they are made. Then they find out how the sausage is made and pitch a fit.

What one person calls stealing or ripping off, another just calls technique. Is it really any better if he light boxes or even free-hand draws a carbon copy of a reference? Art is in the eye of the beholder, and there are many ways to create artistic pieces.

Lying about how things are made, that is a different story and is altogether an unacceptable practice.
This isn't how realistic sketch cards are made. There are plenty of artists out there that can produce realistic art by hand drawing the art..and that's the key .."hand drawn". This guy claimed to hand draw but in fact printed out the work. It doesn't matter if it's realistic or not he's deceiving his buyers when he states this. A lot of collectors spent huge amounts of cash buying what they thought were "hand drawn" sketch cards not print outs.
Let's not start to muddy the waters and take away the focus on what this guy did otherwise he gets away with it.
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Old 08-06-2017, 04:54 PM   #111
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What's worse, this method of 'sketching' or using a stencil?
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Old 08-06-2017, 05:02 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Get your rotten tomatoes ready...

I find it humorous that so many people are such avid collectors of realistic sketch cards, never considering how they are made. Then they find out how the sausage is made and pitch a fit.

What one person calls stealing or ripping off, another just calls technique. Is it really any better if he light boxes or even free-hand draws a carbon copy of a reference? Art is in the eye of the beholder, and there are many ways to create artistic pieces.

Lying about how things are made, that is a different story and is altogether an unacceptable practice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by harry lime View Post
This isn't how realistic sketch cards are made. There are plenty of artists out there that can produce realistic art by hand drawing the art..and that's the key .."hand drawn". This guy claimed to hand draw but in fact printed out the work. It doesn't matter if it's realistic or not he's deceiving his buyers when he states this. A lot of collectors spent huge amounts of cash buying what they thought were "hand drawn" sketch cards not print outs.
Let's not start to muddy the waters and take away the focus on what this guy did otherwise he gets away with it.
Maybe you should take a second to digest things before you comment about them...
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Old 08-06-2017, 05:04 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
That may be your expectation, but may not be the artists contractual obligation.

Where do stencils fall in your definition of "from scratch"? Why is copying free-hand okay but tracing unacceptable? It's not like the final product is any different.

If you are happy with the card in your hand, stay ignorant and happy.
If the stencil ones were originally hand drawn, cut out, and used by you, then they aren't that bad. They are still completely hand made. They aren't my favorite, but acceptable. If they are using stencils they didn't create then no. A lot of sketch cards say hand drawn. That is the expectation for them. I'm pretty sure printing out your card is not OK by any contract. I'm not saying art can't be created using other materials and methods just not hand drawn sketch cards.
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Old 08-06-2017, 05:07 PM   #114
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I find it humorous that so many people are such avid collectors of realistic sketch cards, never considering how they are made. Then they find out how the sausage is made and pitch a fit.

I just founf the above statement odd. It assumes that , that is how realistic sketch cards are made, by someone printing out an image??? That is a insult to those artists that spend a lot of time and effort on cards to get a realistic finish by hand...without the use of a printer.
That's all I was trying to get across..sorry for the confusion...
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Old 08-06-2017, 05:15 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by jjsmallvillelvr View Post
If the stencil ones were originally hand drawn, cut out, and used by you, then they aren't that bad. They are still completely hand made. They aren't my favorite, but acceptable. If they are using stencils they didn't create then no. A lot of sketch cards say hand drawn. That is the expectation for them. I'm pretty sure printing out your card is not OK by any contract. I'm not saying art can't be created using other materials and methods just not hand drawn sketch cards.
I'm not defending a liar. That is not acceptable. If he thinks his technique is acceptable then he should defend it.

However, if people pull a card that they like, why should they change that opinion if they find out it was made differently than they assumed? The card hasn't changed.

Hand drawn... well that is not as black and white to me as it is to you. If he printed and then added touches by hand, some aspect of the finished product was done by hand, and it's a 1/1. You may not like it, but it doesn't make it untrue.

If a stencil is made by hand, place over a card, and sprayed with spray paint... well that is hardly hand drawn. I'm not demeaning the practice. I own some pieces made that way that I'm very happy with. But there are individuals that feel those don't qualify as sketch cards. And so the debate continues.

Sketch cards is nothing but a ceremonial name for what evolved into art cards over a decade ago.
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Old 08-06-2017, 05:18 PM   #116
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Quote:
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I find it humorous that so many people are such avid collectors of realistic sketch cards, never considering how they are made. Then they find out how the sausage is made and pitch a fit.

I just founf the above statement odd. It assumes that , that is how realistic sketch cards are made, by someone printing out an image??? That is a insult to those artists that spend a lot of time and effort on cards to get a realistic finish by hand...without the use of a printer.
That's all I was trying to get across..sorry for the confusion...
Realistic sketch cards are made many ways. I wasn't commenting on this one specifically and actually cited multiple techniques in my post.

To some illustrators, other artists replicating a reference is an insult.

You are welcome to be closed minded, and call out snipits of what I have written out of the greater holistic context. Maybe if you had been around the hobby a bit longer you would know how many different artists have been called out for different techniques.
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Old 08-06-2017, 05:25 PM   #117
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On a recent episode of Younger, a girl was taking beautiful hand painteddy canvases from artists she had conned into giving her one for free, them she was stenciling an outline of the state of Montana on them and calling them her art. She had a gallery showing of them. I'm not sure exactly how all that works, but that seemed just like stealing. Just because you add something to something else doesn't make it your own. Not when it comes to paintings and stuff. I get there's repurposed art and art that start with other stuff. Collages, and decoupage, etc. But for those things to be considered your own art, it can't resemble what it was started with so much. It has to be like so much percent different. Printing an image and slapping on a line or two does not change it enough to make it even remotely his own. Finding out that's what he did totally changes the card. You may be OK with it, but it's really not ok.
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Old 08-06-2017, 05:26 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Realistic sketch cards are made many ways. I wasn't commenting on this one specifically and actually cited multiple techniques in my post.

To some illustrators, other artists replicating a reference is an insult.

You are welcome to be closed minded, and call out snipits of what I have written out of the greater holistic context. Maybe if you had been around the hobby a bit longer you would know how many different artists have been called out for different techniques.
*cough*he's a sketch artist*cough*
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Old 08-06-2017, 05:40 PM   #119
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Quote:
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*cough*he's a sketch artist*cough*


I love when someones words come back and make them look 10x more stupid.
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Old 08-06-2017, 05:58 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider-Fan View Post
Realistic sketch cards are made many ways. I wasn't commenting on this one specifically and actually cited multiple techniques in my post.

To some illustrators, other artists replicating a reference is an insult.

You are welcome to be closed minded, and call out snipits of what I have written out of the greater holistic context. Maybe if you had been around the hobby a bit longer you would know how many different artists have been called out for different techniques.
Of course sketch cards can be made with different techniques! And in this case, if the creator had stated that his sketches were printed on the card, based on art/images not of his property, then covered with paint/scratched with pencils by his hand, it would be o.k! You can like the sketches, you can hate them, but he is not lying to anybody. Probably won't be hired again, but not a liar.
Buuuut here we have a weird video where he pretends to paint a perfect Leia while he's holding a card in a very strange way, and scratches only the center of the card with his always sharpened pencils for 7 minutes, until he gets a perfect picture: magic!
And that's the problem, as you said, the lie. Nobody is claiming against the technique here (which I find very interesting), or at least that's what I feel about that.
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Old 08-06-2017, 06:02 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjsmallvillelvr View Post
*cough*he's a sketch artist*cough*
Relevance of his profession?

If he wants to be personally insulted by this guys practice, that is his prerogative. That has nothing to do with me.

Maybe my point isn't being understood so let me write it out as simply as I can.

If you own one of these cards and enjoyed it two weeks ago, you should enjoy it today. The card hasn't changed. All that has changed is your knowledge of the process used to make it.

As previously stated, I'm not defending a guy who is lying. If he is lying, he obviously thinks he is doing something wrong. If he didn't, he would say "this is how my cards are made and if you don't like it then don't buy them."
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Old 08-06-2017, 06:03 PM   #122
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In May I had posted on a Facebook group about how I had pulled one of Bob's cards. He contacted me and inquired about trading them for his custom sketches. I told him I had another and we set up a deal for two comic covers. Almost 2 months later he just posted them out now, and a comic cover somehow turned into sketch cards (which I assume will be one of these "high quality" whatever he wants to call them.) To make matters worse, he said he was giving the cards to his nephew so I packed in some bonus cards in for him. Do you know what he did? Sold them in that same Facebook group. Not cool.
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Old 08-06-2017, 06:04 PM   #123
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Quote:
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Of course sketch cards can be made with different techniques! And in this case, if the creator had stated that his sketches were printed on the card, based on art/images not of his property, then covered with paint/scratched with pencils by his hand, it would be o.k! You can like the sketches, you can hate them, but he is not lying to anybody. Probably won't be hired again, but not a liar.
Buuuut here we have a weird video where he pretends to paint a perfect Leia while he's holding a card in a very strange way, and scratches only the center of the card with his always sharpened pencils for 7 minutes, until he gets a perfect picture: magic!
And that's the problem, as you said, the lie. Nobody is claiming against the technique here (which I find very interesting), or at least that's what I feel about that.
I very much agree with you.
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Old 08-06-2017, 06:43 PM   #124
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I agree too. If he was up front with his technique, fine. I'm not sure how many people would actually want to buy from someone who just prints an image from google images. Also he wouldn't get the work from all the sketch card companies as they state the sketch cards must be hand drawn. But yes if he states this is how he produce my cards, let the buyer at least buy with their eyes wide open. No problem...
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:05 PM   #125
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If you own one of these cards and enjoyed it two weeks ago, you should enjoy it today. The card hasn't changed. All that has changed is your knowledge of the process used to make it.
I do not see the logic here. The perceived process is a big part of the value though, right? I would be very upset and would classify these as counterfeit. These seem a lot like the "Vega" art things that flood eBay.

This guys technique is only deception. I know you are not okay with his practice, as you stated but I don't understand how owners of his sketches should be content finding out about this?
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