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Old 01-26-2017, 04:56 PM   #201
rustyisin
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it's a numbers game

With so many hard core collectors having locked down a Brady contenders, why are we seeing so many on ebay compared to other players from 2000?

I just did a search right now of active/sold listings:

Shaun Alexander x 8
Pennington x 8
Urlacher x 8
Warrick x 1
Syl Morris x 7
Mike Anderson x 10
Jamal Lewis x 11
Tom Brady x 74

Shouldn't we see less Brady than other players?
The numbers don't lie.
There is obviously a problem with counterfeit Bradys that no-one is talking about

Last edited by rustyisin; 01-26-2017 at 05:10 PM.
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Old 01-26-2017, 04:57 PM   #202
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here is the real one. Below is the fake.
Not much difference between the two except the autograph is different in each.
The fake has what looks like a "10" auto. The real one has streaky "9" auto. This is likely why it was PSA graded rather than BGS

Big money cards always bring big opportunity for fraud.
It's easier to tell by looking at the PSA label than by looking at the actual card. The kerning for the fake card's flip is all wrong - the most noticeable spots are the "DE" in "CONTENDER", the horizontal space between the end of "CONTENDER" and the beginning of "GEM", and the "44" in both the card number and serial number. Counterfeiters have gotten better at reproducing PSA labels, but they're still not perfect.
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Old 01-26-2017, 04:57 PM   #203
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The bottom one looks like it has the PSA hologam security no?

This is what PSA website says

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:12 PM   #204
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I know for sure that the one you think is the real one is the fake...including the PSA holder.
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:14 PM   #205
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I need more info to go on...until then only buy graded. GOAT for days.
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:15 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by rustyisin View Post
I know for sure that the one you think is the real one is the fake...including the PSA holder.
How though? Your so sure but you dont know how its fake? I don't understand.
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:15 PM   #207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyisin View Post
it's a numbers game

With so many hard core collectors having locked down a Brady contenders, why are we seeing so many on ebay compared to other players from 2000?

I just did a search right now of active/sold listings:

Shaun Alexander x 8
Pennington x 8
Urlacher x 8
Warrick x 1
Syl Morris x 7
Mike Anderson x 10
Jamal Lewis x 11
Tom Brady x 74

Shouldn't we see less Brady than other players?
The numbers don't lie.
There is obviously a problem with counterfeit Bradys that no-one is talking about
Or maybe because there is little to zero demand for the others...
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:16 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by RogerGodahell View Post
The bottom one looks like it has the PSA hologam security no?
Counterfeiters have been making fake PSA labels with holograms for at least a year now:

California Craigslist PSA Baseball Card Scam | BBC Emporium

Scroll down until you see the 1952 Topps Mantle. One of the telltale signs is that the hologram looks matte when scanned; real holograms are reflective and divided into distinct quadrants of varying brightness. Here's a comparison of the fake Mantle and a real card I scanned myself:


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Old 01-26-2017, 05:18 PM   #209
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Originally Posted by pazerbaijan View Post
Counterfeiters have been making fake PSA labels with holograms for at least a year now:

California Craigslist PSA Baseball Card Scam | BBC Emporium

Scroll down until you see the 1952 Topps Mantle. One of the telltale signs is that the hologram looks matte when scanned; real holograms are reflective and divided into distinct quadrants of varying brightness. Here's a comparison of the fake Mantle and a real card I scanned myself:


Your post above talked specifically about a wonky label with spacing etc... unless I misunderstood...

But that Faulk is as wonky as you can get. It's all types of off center, slanted, and with different spacing.

Just trying to clear up what you said up above to what you are saying in this post
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:22 PM   #210
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Or maybe because there is little to zero demand for the others...
LOL - it's way beyond demand.
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:23 PM   #211
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Originally Posted by rustyisin View Post
I'm not referring to trimmed. Fakes, counterfeits...cards that are reproduced or not factory released

I always wondered why there was such an abundance of Contenders Brady

Any other player there are anywhere from 1-8 copies on ebay. Brady there are always 20+. Shouldn't this card be locked down in collector vaults and not seen so readily?

Probably the reason why you see so few PSA graded. Also likely the reason why PSA won't look at them any longer.

here is a fake Brady with a fake Jordan. Can you tell the difference? I can't.
There might be subtle differences with the embossed stamp - but I can't see it clearly enough to assess

That PSA hologram doesn't look matted to me
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:31 PM   #212
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I think that card above looks real both of the Brady's actually. If there's any funny business going on i bet it's with the labels or the auto was wiped and resigned on one of them or one was trimmed with a fake label. Who know's im not a counterfeit expert. The "R" on the other one definitely stands out but i don't see anything on the other 2 from a couple pictures. I'd have to see them in person.
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:36 PM   #213
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I think that card above looks real both of the Brady's actually. If there's any funny business going on i bet it's with the labels or the auto was wiped and resigned on one of them or one was trimmed with a fake label. Who know's im not a counterfeit expert. The "R" on the other one definitely stands out but i don't see anything on the other 2 from a couple pictures. I'd have to see them in person.
given the numbers of active/sold I just researched It's gotta be a counterfeit card - not just altering an original.
I have a feeling we're going to be hearing details on what the takes are one day.
Add this contenders GOAT card right up there with GOATs Jordan and Gretzky having counterfeits.
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:36 PM   #214
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Your post above talked specifically about a wonky label with spacing etc... unless I misunderstood...

But that Faulk is as wonky as you can get. It's all types of off center, slanted, and with different spacing.

Just trying to clear up what you said up above to what you are saying in this post
Real PSA labels don't use identical spacing between every pair of letters; I don't know if it's intentional or not (it probably is), but certain series of characters have different spacing than others.

The easiest way to tell is to compare identical words to a PSA label known to be real. Here's a side-by-side comparison of the real Brady label, the real Faulk label, and the fake Brady label:



Notice how the "PLAYOFF CONTENDER" spacing is uneven, but identical, on both of the real labels. The spacing is noticeably different on the fake label.

As for the slanting, that's my scanner - I have an ancient CCD scanner that's slightly miscalibrated, so anything with multiple layers (like a slabbed card) will appear perfectly in focus, but just barely warped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerGodahell View Post
That PSA hologram doesn't look matted to me
It only shows up when scanned. They'll appear authentic when photographed.

Last edited by pazerbaijan; 01-26-2017 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:43 PM   #215
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this may have already been mentioned but did PSA really put "Contender" on some labels rather than "Contenders" ?
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Old 01-26-2017, 05:56 PM   #216
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I don't see the difference in spacing. I see the T's look different, looks like the horizontal part crosses the vertical part of it. What about the cards themselves though what's different about them?
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:01 PM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rustyisin View Post
it's a numbers game

With so many hard core collectors having locked down a Brady contenders, why are we seeing so many on ebay compared to other players from 2000?

I just did a search right now of active/sold listings:

Shaun Alexander x 8
Pennington x 8
Urlacher x 8
Warrick x 1
Syl Morris x 7
Mike Anderson x 10
Jamal Lewis x 11
Tom Brady x 74

Shouldn't we see less Brady than other players?
The numbers don't lie.
There is obviously a problem with counterfeit Bradys that no-one is talking about
There is an easy explanation for this, and its simply because his card is worth far more than the others listed, he is immensely popular, and he is a first ballot HOF'er.
None of the other guys in that list carry all of those distinctions, nor is there collector base as large as bradys.
Additionally, one of the reasons for all the sales is the amount of money the contenders card is selling for. there are far more people that like money better than a piece of cardboard, so they are all coming out of the woodwork.. I know a guy with 5 Contenders, and 1 champ ticket, and they havent seen the light of day in 10 years. they are locked away for good, as far as he is concerned because thats how he wants it..
Combine that with flippers, people who bought as early as two months ago, and are now flipping for a few hundred, or more profit. If I could buy a card and flip in 2 months for a good profit each and every time, I wouldnt need to work as a computer geek.

I can totally see where you are coming from, and Im not trying to shoot you down at all. This is why we talk, and convey each others opinions, etc.. you have thought about this, and I believe you that you feel that there might be something heinous going on.

The only thing I would want to do at this point is seperate opinions from fact, and I think that doing so is extremely important, because if this conversation were to be seen by 50000 collectors, vendors, LCS owners and even card companies/grading companies themselves, this could cause quite a $hit storm.

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Old 01-26-2017, 06:01 PM   #218
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I don't see the difference in spacing. I see the T's look different, looks like the horizontal part crosses the vertical part of it. What about the cards themselves though what's different about them?
the N and the D is "contender" are very close together on the fake
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:06 PM   #219
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C.
None of the other guys in that list carry all of those distinctions, nor is there collector base as large as bradys.
Additionally, one of the reasons for all the sales is the amount of money the contenders card is selling for. there are far more people that like money better than a piece of cardboard. Combine that with flippers, people who bought as early as two months ago, and are now flipping for a few hundred, or more profit. If I could buy a card and flip in 2 months for a good profit each and every time, I wouldnt need to work as a computer geek.

I can totally see where you are coming from, and Im not trying to shoot you down at all. This is why we talk, and convey each others opinions, etc.. you have thought about this, and I believe you that you feel that there might be something heinous going on.

The only thing I would want to do at this point is seperate opinions from fact, and I think that doing so is extremely important, because if this conversation were to be seen by 50000 collectors, vendors, LCS owners and even card companies/grading companies themselves, this could cause quite a $hit storm.
sorry, I don't buy it.
Trying to justify the quantity difference is just burying your head in the sand.
Brady has been around for so long and has so many collectors that the vast majority of these Contenders should rarely come up for auction...but he's now available at 7x the number of any other player. 7 fricking times!

I don't have skin in this game. I'm just stating the facts and providing my opinion base on said facts.
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:06 PM   #220
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I don't see the difference in spacing. I see the T's look different, looks like the horizontal part crosses the vertical part of it. What about the cards themselves though what's different about them?
look at the space between the "N" & "D" in Contenders.
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:10 PM   #221
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I've got 2 boxes of 2000 E-X and 1 box of 2000 Score on the way that I got for very reasonable prices (Score was a steal).

Hoping to flip them around Super Bowl time if I can resist the urge to break them...guess that means I'll be rooting for Brady and the Pats to win
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:22 PM   #222
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Rusty, or Asu.. one of you guys mentioned earlier that PSA wont grade Bradys contenders RCs anymore.
Fact or opinion, and if fact, please show me your source, because I cant locate anything online.
Or I could just call them, but I would really like to know.


Rusty, I get what your saying, but you also need to remember that back when 2000 Contenders came out, absolutely noone was searching for a Brady. Even after the first couple of superbowls, that card was a red-headed stepchild to that of the SPA.
Even I never bought one, and instead went with a SPx and a Leaf Limited back in 2004.
these cards were jammed into boxes with other commons and forgotten about.

It took years for that card to really heat up because on card autos were still in their infancy, and alot of old school collectors were always made to believe that an autograph, even by the player himself is considered a damaged card.
Im very serious about this too, as I know it sounds stupid nowadays...but Ive been collecting since the 80's. This was everyone's opinion when it came to autos.

Fast forward to 2010 and up until now, and now on-card autos are where its at, to the point that even some people on these boards will not buy an auto unless its on card.

All im saying is that in 2000, alot of specifics about how cards were collected, etc.. were different.

You have some very good opinions, but a fact is a fact, and Im trying to differentiate between that and a possible witchhunt.

Its concerning, none the less.
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Old 01-26-2017, 06:58 PM   #223
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It should read Playoff Contenders not Playoff Contender


Quote:
Originally Posted by pazerbaijan View Post
Real PSA labels don't use identical spacing between every pair of letters; I don't know if it's intentional or not (it probably is), but certain series of characters have different spacing than others.

The easiest way to tell is to compare identical words to a PSA label known to be real. Here's a side-by-side comparison of the real Brady label, the real Faulk label, and the fake Brady label:



Notice how the "PLAYOFF CONTENDER" spacing is uneven, but identical, on both of the real labels. The spacing is noticeably different on the fake label.

As for the slanting, that's my scanner - I have an ancient CCD scanner that's slightly miscalibrated, so anything with multiple layers (like a slabbed card) will appear perfectly in focus, but just barely warped.



It only shows up when scanned. They'll appear authentic when photographed.
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:19 PM   #224
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It should read Playoff Contenders not Playoff Contender
I never did any research into why, but PSA labels this particular year as "Contender", not "Contenders".

2000 Playoff Contenders Tom Brady (Autographed) | PSA CardFacts?

The example on PSA's own site has "Contender" printed on the flip.
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Old 01-26-2017, 07:41 PM   #225
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Im starting a new thread on these fakes. People should be ablr to see it from a google search
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