New to Vintage: A few questions.

[TheFrenzy]

Tired of buying rookies who never pan out. Tired of a million parallels of the exact same card. Tired of buying a $100 card only to see it become a $10 card a year later. Tired of the lack of innovation.

But I love cards......

And as a historian (got my M.A. in August and now I'm teaching!) I've always loved the stories of each league's early days. Mostly the NFL. So starting this summer I'll officially begin my own vintage collection. Before I do though, I have a few questions:

(For my questions, consider 1955 Topps All-American as the example. It's the set I'm most interested in with Hutson, Thorpe, Stagg, Rockne, Grange, the Four Horsemen, etc...)

1. Is it safe to buy ungraded vintage via ebay? (fear of fakes and trims)

2. Is it worth it to buy ungraded vintage via ebay in hopes of grading decently or have most all of the grade-worthy cards been submitted?

3. How much fluctuation is there in vintage prices? If I find a card with the grade I want for my collection, is "holding out for a cheaper one to come along" just going to leave me waiting for years?

4. I've browsed ebay enough to realize that the PSA 10 vintage collectors are both wealthy and unhinged! What is roughly the "floor of respectability" when it comes to vintage? (using 1955 as an example) I know most modern collectors don't want cards graded lower than a BGS/PSA 9 and a card is only noteworthy if it grades BGS 9.5 or PSA 10. If I'm going to sink the money into a vintage collection, I'd like to make sure that I'm making worthwhile purchases. I've got the rest of my life to do it, so I can wait and save.

5. What questions am I forgetting to ask?

Thanks guys. I think this is my first time wandering into this forum.

[orioles93]

To questions 1 and 2, it all depends on who you buy from and finding good sellers. For raw vintage, I would try looking on Collectors Universe and Net54 before ebay. Tons of great, reputable sellers on those sites that can be trusted.
There isn't a ton of fluctuation on vintage, atleast in the shortrun. It is generally pretty easy to figure out values on vintage cards, and you should just wait to find a nice example for around that price.
There is no floor of respectability. Collect what you can afford and makes you happy. High grade vintage is awesome, but is very expensive. I personally like to collect graded mid grade vintage, like PSA 4-7. And sometimes even lower grades with nice eye appeal. Nice looking mid grade cards can be found for a fraction of the price of higher grades. if you want to do the 1955 All American set, I think a set graded PSA 4-6 with nice centering and eye appeal would be a good range. If going raw, a set around excellent condition would be good, but not too expensive.
Feel free to ask me any other questions you may have about vintage.

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

Tired of buying rookies who never pan out. Tired of a million parallels of the exact same card. Tired of buying a $100 card only to see it become a $10 card a year later. Tired of the lack of innovation.

But I love cards......

And as a historian (got my M.A. in August and now I'm teaching!) I've always loved the stories of each league's early days. Mostly the NFL. So starting this summer I'll officially begin my own vintage collection. Before I do though, I have a few questions:

(For my questions, consider 1955 Topps All-American as the example. It's the set I'm most interested in with Hutson, Thorpe, Stagg, Rockne, Grange, the Four Horsemen, etc...)

1. Is it safe to buy ungraded vintage via ebay? (fear of fakes and trims)

2. Is it worth it to buy ungraded vintage via ebay in hopes of grading decently or have most all of the grade-worthy cards been submitted?

3. How much fluctuation is there in vintage prices? If I find a card with the grade I want for my collection, is "holding out for a cheaper one to come along" just going to leave me waiting for years?

4. I've browsed ebay enough to realize that the PSA 10 vintage collectors are both wealthy and unhinged! What is roughly the "floor of respectability" when it comes to vintage? (using 1955 as an example) I know most modern collectors don't want cards graded lower than a BGS/PSA 9 and a card is only noteworthy if it grades BGS 9.5 or PSA 10. If I'm going to sink the money into a vintage collection, I'd like to make sure that I'm making worthwhile purchases. I've got the rest of my life to do it, so I can wait and save.

5. What questions am I forgetting to ask?

Thanks guys. I think this is my first time wandering into this forum.

I've been collecting vintage since the early 80's, so here are my responses.

1) Yes, it's safe, especially with EBay's buyer protections make it easy to get a refund if you are not satisfied with your purchase. I've bought some really nice raw cards for a fraction of their graded price.

2) Generally I would advise against this. Takes a lot of time and effort and induces a lot of stress, and yes, most potential high-grade cards have already been submitted. Need to have a lot of capital and a high tolerance for risk to do this profitably.

3) Not much anymore.

4) There is no such thing as a "floor of respectability". What quality of card you want in your collection is a personal preference, so there's no correct answer. It depends on what appeals to you. Some of the greatest collections out there are of low-grade cards. I care most about centering and less about corner wear, so PSA 5-7 range cards generally have sufficient visual appeal to meet my needs.

5) The questions you haven't asked...hmmm...the obvious one is what should I collect (answer: whatever tickles your fancy), and whether to buy graded vs. raw (depends how you want to display your collection...I crack all my cards out since I hate the way graded cards look in their holders).

I think the only other advice I would give you is to establish a budget and to develop a collecting "style" (i.e. do you want to collect singles, specific players/teams, build sets, etc.). Otherwise you can easily become overwhelmed with the amount of stuff out there. A good starting point might be to buy/check out from the library a copy of the most recent annual Beckett Football Card Price Guide (since you seem to be most interest in football) just to see all the different sets which have been issued. Several of my current collecting projects are issues which I didn't even know existed until recently. The Trading Card Database (The Trading Card Database) is also a great resource.

Good luck, and feel free to shoot me any other questions you might have via PM....I'm a HS Social Studies teacher who also loves history.

[gnpaden]

Like the previous members have suggested...it is all about your personal preference and what catches your eye. I personally buy lower graded vintage on ebay, while buying the raw vintage in person at card shows or card shops. I usually look for good color, player preference versus condition. The fact of owning the card of such history means more to me than the monetary value.

[GC1980]

Welcome to vintage! I couldn't agree more with how you got here!

As others mentioned, raw cards are perfectly safe provided you know the seller is reputable. I was at the National a few years back and was shocked at how many dealers were exclusively selling raw cards. Net54 is a great forum for vintage and is incredibly friendly with great members selling tons of stuff. CU forums likewise have some great members.

To me, vintage is all about eye appeal and buying the card and not the holder. I collect Mantle and only buy graded. All my Mantles are below PSA 6 and to me they look amazing. My 51 Bowman is a 4 and presents better than many 6's and even a few 7s I've seen. I paid a premium for that but have been offered 6 money for it since. Just know what you can afford, hunt down the finest looking example in that price range and enjoy!

[Whodey14]

I collect psa 5+. My reasoning was 5+ can't have creases and anything under a 5 psa doesn't list in smr. I tend to lean towards centering over other characteristics.

In terms of raw cards I don't buy them just to be safe.

[GC1980]

Originally Posted by Whodey14

I collect psa 5+. My reasoning was 5+ can't have creases and anything under a 5 psa doesn't list in smr. I tend to lean towards centering over other characteristics.

In terms of raw cards I don't buy them just to be safe.

All grades list on VCP and that is a much more accurate "price guide". It's also a far better tool because you can see every single card that sold publicly and judge them based on how they present vs other cards of the same grade.

So many times with vintage, especially for a centering nut (which I 100% am), you can find a 4 or 3 that blows away many 5's. For example:

[TheFrenzy]

Thank you to everyone. Lots of encouraging things and I will likely pm several of you in the future. I'll type a fuller response tomorrow. I'm off to chaperone a prom...

[sthoemke]

1. Is it safe to buy ungraded vintage via ebay? (fear of fakes and trims)

Yes, but you need to be careful and know what you are buying. (there are plenty of fakes/altered cards)

2. Is it worth it to buy ungraded vintage via ebay in hopes of grading decently or have most all of the grade-worthy cards been submitted?

Yes. Many people buy ungraded cards for the purpose of getting them them graded. It can be profitable, but yes, it can also be risky. Buying graded cards gives you the satisfaction of knowing exactly what you are buying.

3. How much fluctuation is there in vintage prices? If I find a card with the grade I want for my collection, is "holding out for a cheaper one to come along" just going to leave me waiting for years?

Most vintage cards are condition sensitive. That means minor flaws can affect prices dramatically. It can be wise to monitor auctions of a given card, and then bid when the condition and price matches your expectations.

4. What is roughly the "floor of respectability" when it comes to vintage?

Check the PSA POP report for the most populated grades of a given set. This will give you a an idea of the conditions/grades you may want to seek when buying graded and/or graded cards.

[Whodey14]

Originally Posted by GC1980

All grades list on VCP and that is a much more accurate "price guide". It's also a far better tool because you can see every single card that sold publicly and judge them based on how they present vs other cards of the same grade.

So many times with vintage, especially for a centering nut (which I 100% am), you can find a 4 or 3 that blows away many 5's. For example:

Vcp charges you. I don't go by smr i just feel like if psa won't value under a 5 I shouldn't collect under a 5

[GC1980]

Originally Posted by Whodey14

Vcp charges you. I don't go by smr i just feel like if psa won't value under a 5 I shouldn't collect under a 5

To each his own. I've held that 4 next to top notch 5s and it's every bit as nice if not superior. I would never let some random graders opinion form my collection. Grades are a great guideline but with vintage there are many cards that are hiding out in a lower holder than they deserve. To me, that's a great value buy when you find it.

[Whodey14]

Originally Posted by GC1980

To each his own. I've held that 4 next to top notch 5s and it's every bit as nice if not superior. I would never let some random graders opinion form my collection. Grades are a great guideline but with vintage there are many cards that are hiding out in a lower holder than they deserve. To me, that's a great value buy when you find it.

I'm happy for you. I'm not asking you to do as I do and I would appreciate if you wouldn't take my opinion so negatively.

[TheFrenzy]

How do vintage collectors tend to view qualifiers in graded cards? Is there any way to compare a PSA 8 or 9 OC with, say, a PSA 5 or 6? Or is it strictly a personal preference?

[TEAM_OF_RIVALS]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

How do vintage collectors tend to view qualifiers in graded cards? Is there any way to compare a PSA 8 or 9 OC with, say, a PSA 5 or 6? Or is it strictly a personal preference?

I'll tell you what I've been told while putting my t206 set together....'Buy the card, not the grade.'

[Whodey14]

Originally Posted by TheFrenzy

How do vintage collectors tend to view qualifiers in graded cards? Is there any way to compare a PSA 8 or 9 OC with, say, a PSA 5 or 6? Or is it strictly a personal preference?

Most people consider a qualifier a 2 point drop

[Leon]

Originally Posted by GC1980

All grades list on VCP and that is a much more accurate "price guide". It's also a far better tool because you can see every single card that sold publicly and judge them based on how they present vs other cards of the same grade.

So many times with vintage, especially for a centering nut (which I 100% am), you can find a 4 or 3 that blows away many 5's. For example:

That is a great '51 Mantle. I would take it over 95% of the ones graded 5. The centering is very important to me as it frames the picture. I love a well centered card and could care less about the technical grade. The more advanced collectors become, that aren't about the number on the plastic, the more they care about the card and not the stupid holder. I don't collect plastic. However, I am NOT saying that if others want to collect plastic they shouldn't.....Everyone should do what makes them happy. All collecting is good..

[lindeman79]

graded, graded, graded

[ToppsCollector1]

To answer the question of fakes, in most cases its just the star atheletes.

[Crisscross4767]

In my experience, mainly because of my extremely small budget, I tend to get the card I need when doing sets when I see them. Then I slowly replace them when I come across one in better condition. Like everyone said though it's just your preference on what you want to do.