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Old 12-17-2013, 08:54 PM   #1
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Default Bitcoins and alt-coins...w-t-f. *official thread*

Was completely unaware of how large-scale this phenomena has gotten until a forum member brought it up in jest.

Last time I casually checked (out of pure curiosity) it was around $5x or so dollars last year. I had no real idea what it entailed, just saw random videos on youtube showing these behemoth ghetto-rigged home network systems of people trying to 'farm' this stuff.

But Bitcoins recently surged an ungodly amount from like $1xx to $1200 for a single coin. Then promptly back down to around $6xx each. You don't know the meaning of volatility until you've seen alt-coin prices.

Just wondering if anyone has any of these or got in early.

Additionally, I see that they actually minted physical bitcoins, which are garnering insane amounts on ebay. No precious metal content, just a physical plated coin with a 'limited' lifetime mintage of around 21 million.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:00 PM   #2
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Saw an article that a dude in England I believe threw away a flash drive accidentally that had millions in bitcoins on it. He's searching the landfill I believe for it.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:03 PM   #3
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Bitcoins LOL
talk about a rush try trading in that stuff lol
I have some
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:05 PM   #4
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Saw an article that a dude in England I believe threw away a flash drive accidentally that had millions in bitcoins on it. He's searching the landfill I believe for it.
Ha. I was just thinking about the heartbreak a lot of people are having now. I believe the stuff started out at like $5 per only a few years ago and experienced a lot of sideways motion until only late this year. I think back when it first started out, a lot of people were making like 1-2 bitcoins a day or more mining with a regular spec laptop before it experienced a boom and algorithms became ridiculously difficult. Amazing.

Thing that bothers me most about it is the market seems so prone to fraud. Transactions not reversible, countless DDos and server attacks on bitcoin e-wallet sites, and many e-wallet sites themselves doing the scamming and running away with hundreds of millions in customer coins.

I think e-currency has potential in the future, but right now it's just not 'practical' for obvious reasons. Having to go to great lengths simply to store, backup, re-backup your currency...and still having the risk of it being hacked or lost in a harddrive crash, is not something that I could depend on.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:53 PM   #5
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I was looking at LiteCoins a few months ago when they were $4 each.

I also wish I had bought some BitCoins right after the (first) Silk Road went down.
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Old 12-17-2013, 09:58 PM   #6
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I was looking at LiteCoins a few months ago when they were $4 each.
Not going to lie, I was eyeing Litecoins hard 2 nights ago when it was hovering ~$30.00. Then it promptly shaved %50 value down to ~$20 in a matter of hours.

I promptly reconsidered.
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:49 PM   #7
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Both pretty cool to read about... Won't be spending any money anytime soon on them...
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:50 PM   #8
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Ok what's a bit coin?
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Old 12-17-2013, 10:53 PM   #9
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Ok what's a bit coin?
Bitcoin - Open source P2P money

http://www.bitcoin.com
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Old 12-18-2013, 12:31 AM   #10
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I've known about bitcoins since around 2009 and even thought about building some farming servers just for fun. Its no longer viable to do with cheap home machines as the amount of cpu work increases over time and these days you need dedicated asic boards. If I had known that I could have bought a bunch for cheap and sat on them back then I would have but didn't know of any ways to really buy them in quantity from brokers. Ohwell, another boat I missed just like AMR stock.
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Old 12-18-2013, 03:15 AM   #11
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Ouch. From 1200 down to 800 and now down to a new recent low in the 5xx's. All in the course of less than a few days.

My own personal opinion is that bitcoin and all alt-currencies are on the verge of crashing hard. Definitely does seem exactly like a bubble. And the first pop was the news out of china basically barring bitcoin trading payment processors. Essentially making it worthless in china unless you resort to black market schemes. Now comes the fear and floods of people dumping. I just don't see any plausible way this stuff makes it past the u.s. government without being shut down, just like online poker sites. Especially considering there are no implicit tax laws on it, and it's a threat to fiat currencies at its most basic premise.

Hope those that had it sold at or near the 1k mark and enjoyed their win!
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Old 12-18-2013, 03:41 AM   #12
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Thankfully I got rid of mine while they were the rage.

I highly doubt they hit that peak ever again.
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Old 12-18-2013, 09:45 AM   #13
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Wow. How some of you have never heard of a bitcoin is amazing. Must be living under rocks! :-)

I've been following it since its inception. I work in the data center industry and we have some clients using our space to mine bit coins. They pay us tens of thousands a month in rent and then go out and buy $500,000 worth of hardware to mine the coins. It's insane.

2013 has been the year of the BTC. It crashed last night. From 1200 a few days ago to sub-600 right now. Might be worth getting in for a bounce eventually.
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Old 12-18-2013, 09:48 AM   #14
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Thankfully I got rid of mine while they were the rage.

I highly doubt they hit that peak ever again.
It could, quite easily, hit 2,000 next year when India starts adopting them. It could also go back down to 20 (but I would bet anything that doesn't happen for a while).
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Old 12-18-2013, 10:30 AM   #15
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I look at bitcoin like a penny stock. it's trash. Sure someone made some money on it, but the vast majority lose. The only people consistently making money are those with the juice: the professional miners, the clearing houses (MtGOX, which was a Magic the Gathering trading site originally), the criminals, etc.

And if the derivatives take off, manipulation is going to be crazy. Here's a screen of a derivative spread from about 2 weeks ago, basically $1,400 calls (though it's unclear if you need actual coins on the writing side them):



At $650 now? Yeah, boom for the sellers.



Short version, it's fun to watch but I'm not touching bitcoins. Also, it's interesting to note that the "regular people" who have made 6 figures or more off these are people who forgot they had them. Anyone who was following would have sold up 100% or 1000%. Very few people would hold from $1 to $1,000 with all the volatility.
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Old 12-18-2013, 07:49 PM   #16
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^ Pretty much summed up right there. Complete garbage. Bad enough people put faith and trust into a currency that is printed into oblivion and they KNOW who's doing it. There is absolutely nothing to stop whoever is running bitcoins from just giving themselves 10 billion of the things and cashing out before anyone really knows what happened. Sounds eerily familiar...
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Old 12-18-2013, 08:54 PM   #17
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Agree with everything said.

It's almost comical seeing the bitcoin hypers commenting on 'bubble' speculation articles online. They sensationally claim it represents some sort of 'freedom' from government constraints and the monopoly that is Ben Bernanke and his cohorts at the Fed Reserve.

Yet, bitcoins were founded 'mysteriously' by a still unidentified individual or group of individuals under a pseudonym. And the 'claim' is that the founder initially gave themselves 10% of the entire bitcoin run immediately upon release. Yet bitcoins are a completely anonymous currency which cannot be traced or tracked to individuals. Now if that doesn't sound like a fraud scheme waiting to happen, then I don't know what does. Talk about the ultimate pump and dump scenario.

Not to mention the CEO of BTC China himself is and has been a huge investor of bitcoin since its inception, and his own brother developed litecoin. Can't even imagine how much he made with his insider knowledge right knowing when his company was going to make their public partnership announcement, making the currency skyrocket.

I can't even imagine how anyone could possibly buy in at these current prices thinking this is some temporary dip...but bless their brave souls. Anyone would be a fool to believe the big investors are 'long' in bitcoin. It's just a bunch of tycoons with short positions manipulating prices, no different than our very own gold and silver with JP Morgan.
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Old 12-18-2013, 09:19 PM   #18
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Soooooo, I still don't get it. Why use these except in the case of illegal transactions? So is mining making your own? I just heard about these from a DEA friend a few weeks ago. I still don't understand the whole concept. Basically is it fake money generated by a computer program?
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Old 12-18-2013, 11:44 PM   #19
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Soooooo, I still don't get it. Why use these except in the case of illegal transactions? So is mining making your own? I just heard about these from a DEA friend a few weeks ago. I still don't understand the whole concept. Basically is it fake money generated by a computer program?
Mining is nothing more than a 'lottery' system where you use your system to fish through algorithms on the bitcoin software. Every few minutes or so 'X' amount of bitcoins are created and 'won' through the lottery, and divided by the winners (aka mining pool). That is why bitcoins are earned by the smallest of fractions. The more people mining, the greater the difficulty.

Stanford Seminar - BTC: Bitcoin, a New Value Chain in China - YouTube

That's actually the ceo of BTC China, and ironically, the chinese legislation against it was handed down I believe the same morning he was giving that lecture hyping it up.

A lot of investors are pissed because there is basically no possible way he could not have seen the legislation coming, as he has strong connections with financial officials in the chinese gov't, and he 'mysteroisly' raised the withdrawl fees right before the price took a dive.

I give it another couple of months before U.S. based bitcoin trading sites bear the FBI seizure signs a la poker Black Friday. There is no way they're letting alt currencies function in an unregulated manner, or possibly in any manner unless they're getting a significant cut.

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Old 12-19-2013, 06:05 AM   #20
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The big boys don't want anybody impeding on their game. Pretty sure JPM filed a patent on this type of electronic currency sometime recently. They'll shut it down then start their own.
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:44 AM   #21
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It's funny that you all think it can be "shut down" or taken over. This isn't something physical -- it's digital. The US government cannot do anything about aside from making it harder to buy and sell. The actually "coins" cannot be seized or deleted by anyone.
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Old 12-19-2013, 09:50 AM   #22
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It could, quite easily, hit 2,000 next year when India starts adopting them. It could also go back down to 20 (but I would bet anything that doesn't happen for a while).
Possibly, but I just don't see it.

I was like everybody else, I forgot I had them.
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Old 12-19-2013, 10:48 AM   #23
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Possibly, but I just don't see it.

I was like everybody else, I forgot I had them.
Again, possibly. I agree that the 1200 area is probably a high. Anything over $1k and it starts to become a barrier to entry for profit seekers.

I think it's a crazy thing just like everyone else. I also think it'll eventually go to 0. That being said, it won't be the US Gov making that happen.
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:51 PM   #24
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So coincidental. Watching The FAN radio syndication on tv right now, and one of the hosts said that his neighbor was a meth kingpin (nice neighborhood) that just got arrested for trafficking meth through bitcoins via Silk Road.


By the way, I do see potential for digital currencies in the distant future (not as a replacement for fiat, but merely an alternative), but I don't believe Bitcoin will be the one leading the way. I believe it will become another fall out, as it just isn't up to par right now in terms of security, practicality, and its implementation is lagging behind many other smaller alt-currencies. Bitcoin was really just the first one to make it big and have that 'name.'

Remember back when the internet first started to get popular and netscape navigator was THE browser of choice...and altavista was basically what google was in terms of popularity? Yep. Just because a cyber company 'pioneers' a certain technology, does not mean they will be the ones leading the way in the future.

The biggest hoop is getting around government shut down or seizing of buying/selling sites.

Oh, and just because it's digital, doesn't mean government can't shut it down or make it illegal, thus rendering the coins worthless except from a novelty standpoint. If a digital currency is not able to be traded online without criminal punishmen, then the investor base diminishes and prospector hype goes out the window.

The only thing keeping prices buoyant right now are the hypers and prospectors still holding out hopes the U.S. and other companies besides china will adopt it without heavy regulation. But I still believe that's a pipe dream...every government would want a large cut, through taxation and strong identity measures...which are exactly the same ideologies the e-currencies stand against. Without it, they will continue to be a loophole for criminals to smuggle illegal funds/products/services without repercussion. Essentially, it'd just make them a less practical fiat currency.
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Old 12-21-2013, 02:08 AM   #25
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Agree with everything said.

It's almost comical seeing the bitcoin hypers commenting on 'bubble' speculation articles online. They sensationally claim it represents some sort of 'freedom' from government constraints and the monopoly that is Ben Bernanke and his cohorts at the Fed Reserve.

Yet, bitcoins were founded 'mysteriously' by a still unidentified individual or group of individuals under a pseudonym. And the 'claim' is that the founder initially gave themselves 10% of the entire bitcoin run immediately upon release. Yet bitcoins are a completely anonymous currency which cannot be traced or tracked to individuals. Now if that doesn't sound like a fraud scheme waiting to happen, then I don't know what does. Talk about the ultimate pump and dump scenario.

Not to mention the CEO of BTC China himself is and has been a huge investor of bitcoin since its inception, and his own brother developed litecoin. Can't even imagine how much he made with his insider knowledge right knowing when his company was going to make their public partnership announcement, making the currency skyrocket.

I can't even imagine how anyone could possibly buy in at these current prices thinking this is some temporary dip...but bless their brave souls. Anyone would be a fool to believe the big investors are 'long' in bitcoin. It's just a bunch of tycoons with short positions manipulating prices, no different than our very own gold and silver with JP Morgan.
If u want to get technical...the federal reserve is a Ponzi scheme....
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