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Old 01-22-2018, 12:26 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by twisty571 View Post
Otto Graham lost 2 in a row 52' & 53' to Bobby Layne & the Lions
Yeah, those were impressive Lions teams for sure
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:28 PM   #102
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Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's correct, and just because something is correct, doesn't mean it will be popular.
Ok so if coaches, players and the like who know infinitely more about football than you do think Brady is the GOAT, they are wrong.

But you're right? Gotcha.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:35 PM   #103
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It's to the point where if you go into the 4th quarter up double digits over the Pats, you are scared to death. Brady will just rip your heart out. Teams start playing not to lose and staring at the clock hoping for it to tick down. Take away his best weapon, doesn't matter -- he'll turn Amendola and Dorsett into stars. It's just crazy at this point.
And if any other QB losses receivers, all you hear is how so and so was out, not his fault.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:42 PM   #104
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Yeah, those were impressive Lions teams for sure
But how does that work for the Otto GOAT conversation? One could say the Blonde Bomber had his number & was better.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:45 PM   #105
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Ok so if coaches, players and the like who know infinitely more about football than you do think Brady is the GOAT, they are wrong.

But you're right? Gotcha.
LOL, cause there's an infinite amount of knowledge that can be known about football, huh? And, guys who probably wouldn't know the name Otto Graham from a breakfast cereal would be guys that we should trust on the subject. You can call Brady GOAT all you want, and I'll be sure to argue against it because I don't think he is based on what other players have done.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:45 PM   #106
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Wasn't it clearly Montana until Brady got in the mix? Same thing that happens when Brady is in the MVP discussion, everyone says it is Wentz for example, not Brady, then Wentz gets hurt and it becomes, oh wait, no, it's Antonio Brown now! Get real, Brady is best and it no longer a contest.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:48 PM   #107
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LOL, cause there's an infinite amount of knowledge that can be known about football, huh? And, guys who probably wouldn't know the name Otto Graham from a breakfast cereal would be guys that we should trust on the subject. You can call Brady GOAT all you want, and I'll be sure to argue against it because I don't think he is based on what other players have done.
Is Graham your GOAT?
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:50 PM   #108
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Is Graham your GOAT?
I think it's Rodgers because of his efficiency stats? Could be wrong
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:50 PM   #109
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Is Graham your GOAT?
Dude is just thinking of names he can toss out there that no one saw play, especially when passing was barley a thing, good example for sure.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:50 PM   #110
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Is Graham your GOAT?
As a leader in the game of football? Absolutely. Stats? No, definitely not, but in that realm I go back to my stock answer of that you can't compare stats from the 50's to today because of things like rules being rewritten to make guys like Rodgers and Brady better than they would have been back then.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:51 PM   #111
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As a leader in the game of football? Absolutely. Stats? No, definitely not, but in that realm I go back to my stock answer of that you can't compare stats from the 50's to today because of things like rules being rewritten to make guys like Rodgers and Brady better than they would have been back then.
Gosh darn sports evolving over time! Who invented that crap!
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:52 PM   #112
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As a leader in the game of football? Absolutely. Stats? No, definitely not, but in that realm I go back to my stock answer of that you can't compare stats from the 50's to today because of things like rules being rewritten to make guys like Rodgers and Brady better than they would have been back then.
You're a joke. Please troll elsewhere. Thanks.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:54 PM   #113
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What year did the NFL start being scripted? Has it always been?

Who is Belichick's wardrobe manager? How can we get him a new one? I'd like to see something in a Bear Bryant / Tom Landry with a Rex Ryan sweater vest.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:55 PM   #114
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As a leader in the game of football? Absolutely. Stats? No, definitely not, but in that realm I go back to my stock answer of that you can't compare stats from the 50's to today because of things like rules being rewritten to make guys like Rodgers and Brady better than they would have been back then.
So your saying Otto would be better than Rodgers & Brady in today's bigger & faster NFL made up of professional athletes that train day in and out with more complicated schemes & 32 teams instead of 10-12.....and playing 16 game season's than guys who had worked in a factory the night before?
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:58 PM   #115
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Thread title reminds me of this:

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Old 01-22-2018, 01:04 PM   #116
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So your saying Otto would be better than Rodgers & Brady in today's bigger & faster NFL made up of professional athletes that train day in and out with more complicated schemes & 32 teams instead of 10-12.....and playing 16 game season's than guys who had worked in a factory the night before?
Why does it matter that guys playing back then worked other jobs, just out of curiosity? Not that it would change my answer.

As to whether he would be better, yeah, he probably would be. Why? Because if he were playing now, he would be doing EXACTLY the same things that these guys do to be competitive. Why wouldn't he? Being a great leader doesn't come from being faster or bigger, it comes from being a good leader. Graham worked with what he had, and not only did well, but he defined success. Still does, for that matter. The game has changed, sure, but that doesn't negate what he did. I'd actually say that working in a factory THEN going and playing professional football is a bit harder overall than getting paid millions of dollars working out all day. Yes, the act of playing is a bit tougher now, but the guys back then couldn't rely on a million dollar a week paycheck to make ends meet.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:08 PM   #117
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:09 PM   #118
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Why does it matter that guys playing back then worked other jobs, just out of curiosity? Not that it would change my answer.

As to whether he would be better, yeah, he probably would be. Why? Because if he were playing now, he would be doing EXACTLY the same things that these guys do to be competitive. Why wouldn't he? Being a great leader doesn't come from being faster or bigger, it comes from being a good leader. Graham worked with what he had, and not only did well, but he defined success. Still does, for that matter. The game has changed, sure, but that doesn't negate what he did. I'd actually say that working in a factory THEN going and playing professional football is a bit harder overall than getting paid millions of dollars working out all day. Yes, the act of playing is a bit tougher now, but the guys back then couldn't rely on a million dollar a week paycheck to make ends meet.
ok no disrespect. But you have 3 times as many teams to compete with and a lot more to learn than what Otto every had to deal with. Otto didn't have to deal with star RB's or WR diva's or FA's or a 16 game season. Neither did Bobby Layne. But you keep saying he was such a great leader then why 2 losses in a row to Bobby? IF Brady losing a couple hurts him then Otto should be just as responsible/tarnished what ever you want to call it. He wasn't perfect like you are portraying him to be.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:09 PM   #119
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:11 PM   #120
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ok no disrespect. But you have 3 times as many teams to compete with and a lot more to learn than what Otto every had to deal with. Otto didn't have to deal with star RB's or WR diva's or FA's or a 16 game season. Neither did Bobby Layne. But you keep saying he was such a great leader then why 2 losses in a row to Bobby? IF Brady losing a couple hurts him then Otto should be just as responsible/tarnished what ever you want to call it. He wasn't perfect like you are portraying him to be.
Career 174 TD's to 135 INT's.

Led the league in INT's in '52 with a whopping 24.

Playoff TD's to INT's = 14 to 17

Totally translates to a guy who would be better than both Rodgers and Brady in this day and age.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:16 PM   #121
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ok no disrespect. But you have 3 times as many teams to compete with and a lot more to learn than what Otto every had to deal with. Otto didn't have to deal with star RB's or WR diva's or FA's or a 16 game season. Neither did Bobby Layne. But you keep saying he was such a great leader then why 2 losses in a row to Bobby? IF Brady losing a couple hurts him then Otto should be just as responsible/tarnished what ever you want to call it. He wasn't perfect like you are portraying him to be.
I never said Brady losing championships was a tarnish on him, at least that wasn't my goal. What I was saying, though, was that Graham played 10 years, and was playing for the championship all 10 years, and won 7 times. Ok, Brady is in another Super bowl, and if he wins he'll be 5-3 in championships.... out of 16 years. Just because the game was different back then doesn't make 10 championship appearances in a row any less impressive. But, for some reason the NFL and NFL fans seem to just automatically dismiss anything that happened before the Super Bowl started...
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:19 PM   #122
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I never said Brady losing championships was a tarnish on him, at least that wasn't my goal. What I was saying, though, was that Graham played 10 years, and was playing for the championship all 10 years, and won 7 times. Ok, Brady is in another Super bowl, and if he wins he'll be 5-3 in championships.... out of 16 years. Just because the game was different back then doesn't make 10 championship appearances in a row any less impressive. But, for some reason the NFL and NFL fans seem to just automatically dismiss anything that happened before the Super Bowl started...
Cool, how many teams? I guess Russell is better than Jordan as well.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:20 PM   #123
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I never said Brady losing championships was a tarnish on him, at least that wasn't my goal. What I was saying, though, was that Graham played 10 years, and was playing for the championship all 10 years, and won 7 times. Ok, Brady is in another Super bowl, and if he wins he'll be 5-3 in championships.... out of 16 years. Just because the game was different back then doesn't make 10 championship appearances in a row any less impressive. But, for some reason the NFL and NFL fans seem to just automatically dismiss anything that happened before the Super Bowl started...
Brady will actually be 6-2 if he wins....but semantics.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:22 PM   #124
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Career 174 TD's to 135 INT's.

Led the league in INT's in '52 with a whopping 24.

Playoff TD's to INT's = 14 to 17

Totally translates to a guy who would be better than both Rodgers and Brady in this day and age.
I am of the opposite thinking. Otto was great for his time and so was Bobby Layne. Bobby was a better passer IMO but I do not think either are winning 3-4 Championships in todays game like they did back then. The game is just faster/bigger & more cerebral than it ever was. Could Otto learn it and thrive in it because if you are just using his stats he would be a back up at best. It does matter that the guys he played against worked the night before in a factory and tired himself out but showed up to play to make some extra money as opposed to spending all week scheming and planning and learning a game plan and resting/healing up.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:49 PM   #125
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Crazy Legs McGee obviously GOAT
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