That old GOAT argument again......

[hairyangryfella]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

He'll probably report me again.

I only report people who use abusive language, and then when suspended follow me to another forum to abuse me further... Still haven't grown up I see.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

I only report people who use abusive language, and then when suspended follow me to another forum to abuse me further... Still haven't grown up I see.

Never used abusive language. Just called it how I saw it.

I received many pms from others about you doing similar things. Stop being so emotional and move on dude.

You got what you wanted. Give yourself a high 5.

[hairyangryfella]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

Never used abusive language. Just called it how I saw it.

I received many pms from others about you doing similar things. Stop being so emotional and move on dude.

You got what you wanted. Give yourself a high 5.

I didn't get what I wanted because you obviously haven't learned. Just behave yourself and we'll get along fine.

[Yaz1966]

Originally Posted by drobfan8

New Zealand? Hmmmmm.

I don't think they had tv in the 90s and have probably only just got the internet.

Uh if you actually used your eyes to read I was responding to somebody who said "You can put polls up on espn or any sports website or any message board and Jordan will win those polls every time."

I wasn't arguing for LeBron or Jordan, just showing the results of a poll. The screen shot was taken in NZ, yes, but the poll was by a Canadian and most likely voted on by mostly Americans.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by Yaz1966

Uh if you actually used your eyes to read I was responding to somebody who said "You can put polls up on espn or any sports website or any message board and Jordan will win those polls every time."

I wasn't arguing for LeBron or Jordan, just showing the results of a poll. The screen shot was taken in NZ, yes, but the poll was by a Canadian and most likely voted on by mostly Americans.

Interesting. Thanks for the clarification. No need to get upset. Just was surprised it was 50/50.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

I didn't get what I wanted because you obviously haven't learned. Just behave yourself and we'll get along fine.

Haven't learned to be correct im my assessment of new signers being a good thing? Like everyone else agreed with?

Dude, let it go. You were wrong and all in a huff over nothing.

[jj2]

Aww, I thought we were just having a joke. I was wrong.

[MJGOAT23]

At the end of the Michael Jordan to the Max video, MJ goes on to explain how one person will learn form him, not skip any steps and comments there will be a player greater than him...Maybe, Mike, maybe ....but it hasn't happened yet..

LBJ is close - he does everything well but at times is shaky with his outside shot as well as at the line . He isnt the greatest ball handler either, but I think his longevity is actually an asset to his all time stature.

LBJ's Finals record should be better for GOAT status, not counting his first which he had no business even making so that was a great feat.

They certainly beat Thunder for his 1st title although the first few games had some questionable late game calls that may have swung the series.

Got punked by Dallas in his third trip.

Ray "Benedict" Allen saved the second title and him from going 1-3 overall.

Got smacked around by SAS in trip # 5.

Lost with an injured Cavs club in trip 6 and played great so that was +1 for him

Last year vs GSW was incredible. It actually turned me into a fan of his even if for just that series. THAT LBJ, That is the Lebron I've always wanted to see, The IM THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD AND I AM WINNING THIS SH*T mentality. Not the whiner that escaped and road wade's coattails with "The Decision".

Kobe? I think he is the the second most skilled player of all time behind MJ, but he had bad habits, which take him down a peg.

[cedar rapids]

Originally Posted by CubKings

And what has LeBron done without Wade, Bosh, Ray Allen, Kyrie and Love?

Exactly^^^

[irfuji]

Originally Posted by MJGOAT23

At the end of the Michael Jordan to the Max video, MJ goes on to explain how one person will learn form him, not skip any steps and comments there will be a player greater than him...Maybe, Mike, maybe ....but it hasn't happened yet..

LBJ is close - he does everything well but at times is shaky with his outside shot as well as at the line . He isnt the greatest ball handler either, but I think his longevity is actually an asset to his all time stature.

LBJ's Finals record should be better for GOAT status, not counting his first which he had no business even making so that was a great feat.

They certainly beat Thunder for his 1st title although the first few games had some questionable late game calls that may have swung the series.

Got punked by Dallas in his third trip.

Ray "Benedict" Allen saved the second title and him from going 1-3 overall.

Got smacked around by SAS in trip # 5.

Lost with an injured Cavs club in trip 6 and played great so that was +1 for him

Last year vs GSW was incredible. It actually turned me into a fan of his even if for just that series. THAT LBJ, That is the Lebron I've always wanted to see, The IM THE BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD AND I AM WINNING THIS SH*T mentality. Not the whiner that escaped and road wade's coattails with "The Decision".

Kobe? I think he is the the second most skilled player of all time behind MJ, but he had bad habits, which take him down a peg.

I think Lebron is the most physically gifted player to ever step onto the court. Those physical gifts enable him to have the success he has had.

MJ and Kobe are a half step or so behind Lebron in terms of actual pure physical ability. But they are light years ahead of Lebron in mental toughness and killer instinct. Those two things are what drove MJ and Kobe. It's what really separated them both from the rest.

The Lebron that brought his team back from that GSW deficit is the Lebron I've wanted to see too. If Lebron had 75% of the mental toughness and killer instinct MJ and Kobe had, I think he would have 4-5 rings easily and be well on his way to ultimately getting 6-8 for his career. The guy is just that good.

But when it comes to the GOAT discussion, everything counts. Not just stats. The mentality, the image, the attitude, the impact to the game has to be counted. Lebron has significantly hurt himself when it comes to the GOAT discussion by the flopping, whining, and "the decision." I know MJ and Kobe did their fair share of flopping and whining in their time. But at the end of the day that's not what people remember about them. Their take over the game eff it i'm going to win this thing attitude overshadows that. Lebron just doesn't have enough of that attitude to overshadow those things.

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by irfuji

I think Lebron is the most physically gifted player to ever step onto the court. Those physical gifts enable him to have the success he has had.

MJ and Kobe are a half step or so behind Lebron in terms of actual pure physical ability. But they are light years ahead of Lebron in mental toughness and killer instinct. Those two things are what drove MJ and Kobe. It's what really separated them both from the rest.

The Lebron that brought his team back from that GSW deficit is the Lebron I've wanted to see too. If Lebron had 75% of the mental toughness and killer instinct MJ and Kobe had, I think he would have 4-5 rings easily and be well on his way to ultimately getting 6-8 for his career. The guy is just that good.

But when it comes to the GOAT discussion, everything counts. Not just stats. The mentality, the image, the attitude, the impact to the game has to be counted. Lebron has significantly hurt himself when it comes to the GOAT discussion by the flopping, whining, and "the decision." I know MJ and Kobe did their fair share of flopping and whining in their time. But at the end of the day that's not what people remember about them. Their take over the game eff it i'm going to win this thing attitude overshadows that. Lebron just doesn't have enough of that attitude to overshadow those things.

I'd clarify by saying (not sure if you mean it this way) that Lebron's physical stature and build are what allowed him to be the player he is minus a consistent jumpshot. He can simply impose his will with his size and strength. He is truly a linebacker in an NBA jersey.

As far as athletically, I'd put him, Russ and Jordan all pretty much neck and neck. Westbrook's motor and sheer athleticism isn't something we've seen since Jordan for a man his size. It has also afforded him the same opportunities Lebron gets without a consistent outside shot.

What separates Jordan is that he had the sheer athletic ability and motor of Lebron and WB, but with the well balanced offensive game that made him unstoppable from basically a 26 foot radius. Kobe was probably the closest to MJ in that regard. We saw flashes from Curry, but Curry lacked the size and athleticism to play above the rim bully ball on his opponents.

As I stated earlier, MJ is the most complete player the league has ever seen on both ends. Kobe second in that regard. But MJ was much more efficient and made more of his possessions, IMO.

[duron]

Originally Posted by broncomanning18

that is a pretty small sample size

Not only that, but younger people are the ones taking most of these frivolous, talking-point style polls in the first place.

There's no point in asking historical questions when the people answering them have relatively no perspective.

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

I'd clarify by saying (not sure if you mean it this way) that Lebron's physical stature and build are what allowed him to be the player he is minus a consistent jumpshot. He can simply impose his will with his size and strength. He is truly a linebacker in an NBA jersey.

As far as athletically, I'd put him, Russ and Jordan all pretty much neck and neck. Westbrook's motor and sheer athleticism isn't something we've seen since Jordan for a man his size. It has also afforded him the same opportunities Lebron gets without a consistent outside shot.

What separates Jordan is that he had the sheer athletic ability and motor of Lebron and WB, but with the well balanced offensive game that made him unstoppable from basically a 26 foot radius. Kobe was probably the closest to MJ in that regard. We saw flashes from Curry, but Curry lacked the size and athleticism to play above the rim bully ball on his opponents.

As I stated earlier, MJ is the most complete player the league has ever seen on both ends. Kobe second in that regard. But MJ was much more efficient and made more of his possessions, IMO.

I agree with this here. I'm not sure why some lebron guys say MJ is still better, but lebron is a better all around player. The only nod that I give to lebron over Jordan is that he is probably a better passer. No player has ever had all of the attributes Jordan had on both ends. And Kobe vs. Jordan is a much better comparison because they played much more similar games than lebron does to the two. Offensively, lebron is and always has been more limited on offense because his only move is to call someone out for a pick and switch to take the less athletic defender and just barrel into him in the paint. Jordan and Kobe both had an amazing arsenal of moves and mastered their jump shots. They also were great at creating space and getting to different spots on the floor.

[ninjacookies]

d

Originally Posted by rhigh2390

I agree with this here. I'm not sure why some lebron guys say MJ is still better, but lebron is a better all around player. The only nod that I give to lebron over Jordan is that he is probably a better passer. No player has ever had all of the attributes Jordan had on both ends. And Kobe vs. Jordan is a much better comparison because they played much more similar games than lebron does to the two. Offensively, lebron is and always has been more limited on offense because his only move is to call someone out for a pick and switch to take the less athletic defender and just barrel into him in the paint. Jordan and Kobe both had an amazing arsenal of moves and mastered their jump shots. They also were great at creating space and getting to different spots on the floor.

Jordan and Kobe's post games were severely underrated.

They were almost as unstoppable on the interior with their ability to hit jabstep baseline fadeaways as they were from the outside. Olajuwon-esque. They mastered the understanding of floor spacing and the pump fake. Didn't hurt that their footwork was also superb. Once MJ backed his guy down around 7-10 feet and cupped that basketball with one hand like a grapefruit, you knew it was over.

It's a rare quality to find in the game.

[rhigh2390]

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

d


Jordan and Kobe's post games were severely underrated.

They were almost as unstoppable on the interior with their ability to hit jabstep baseline fadeaways as they were from the outside. Olajuwon-esque. They mastered the understanding of floor spacing and the pump fake. Didn't hurt that their footwork was also superb. Once MJ backed his guy down around 7-10 feet and cupped that basketball with one hand like a grapefruit, you knew it was over.

It's a rare quality to find in the game.

It definitely is! I still don't know how Jordan could be fading away so much, get it over his defender, and still sink it while making it all look so effortless

[Drdduet]

MJ, Lebron, Kobe--all three are in the handful of the greatest of the great in my mind. Kobe falls short of MJ and Lebron is not done. So as of now the cream of the crop is Lebron and MJ. By the time Lebron is done, he and MJ will tower over the rest of the field and there will always be arguments about one over the other. I collect them both.

[SteveO21]

How is this even something that people find interesting to discuss? The topic has been discussed ad nauseam for years now and there are still people who are "interested to see what people think about Lebron's potential legacy".

Or is this a PBM looking to stir the pot?

[cedar rapids]

-MJ is more athletic Kobe.
-Lebron is a more athletic Magic.
-Durant is the wuss version of larry bird.
Lebron and MJ is an Apple and an Orange comparison. But then again you can argue which tastes better. Carry on.

[cshelb34687]

I have one statistic... 6 titles (2 three-peats)!

[GC1980]

Tower over the rest??

Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul Jabbar say hello. How is it we have MJ v LBJ threads nonstop and people just seem to forget about these two? Magic has the acheivments and is arguably the most unique talent the league has ever seen.
Kareem has the dominant peak, counting stats and accolades. He also came into the league as a 22 year old so when you factor in what he did from 18-21 at UCLA it's even crazier.

I think MJ is the undisputed #1 but wouldn't say he towers over these guys.

[6celtics33]

Originally Posted by GC1980

Tower over the rest??

Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul Jabbar say hello. How is it we have MJ v LBJ threads nonstop and people just seem to forget about these two? Magic has the acheivments and is arguably the most unique talent the league has ever seen.
Kareem has the dominant peak, counting stats and accolades. He also came into the league as a 22 year old so when you factor in what he did from 18-21 at UCLA it's even crazier.

I think MJ is the undisputed #1 but wouldn't say he towers over these guys.

It's just their age, Jordan Lebron and Kobe is all they know. There was a time when big men ran the league and there were plenty I'd take over 10-34 Kobe Bryant.

How Magic and Bird are constantly left off baffles me. Maybe this 30 for 30 coming up will teach the young uns something.

[drobfan8]

Originally Posted by GC1980

Tower over the rest??

Magic Johnson and Kareem Abdul Jabbar say hello. How is it we have MJ v LBJ threads nonstop and people just seem to forget about these two? Magic has the acheivments and is arguably the most unique talent the league has ever seen.
Kareem has the dominant peak, counting stats and accolades. He also came into the league as a 22 year old so when you factor in what he did from 18-21 at UCLA it's even crazier.

I think MJ is the undisputed #1 but wouldn't say he towers over these guys.

I couldn't agree more, well said.

And it's a damned shame a generation doesn't even mention these guys.

[NickM]

Originally Posted by cshelb34687

I have one statistic... 6 titles (2 three-peats)!

Bill Russell says that's cute.

[Kefka891]

Originally Posted by SnkzBoyd

Agreed Lebron passed Kobe a while ago. Look at the teams Lebron took to the finals and then look at what Kobe did without Shaq or Gasol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

While this is a low IQ post in multiple ways, I will point out the obvious flaw in that Lebron was in the east, Kobe in the west.

Literal common sense tells you all those years Lebron lost in the finals he wouldn't have been in the finals if he was in the west. (Having lost to the West in the finals obviously)

This isn't to say Lebron making the finals isn't impressive, but this makes your point literally worthless.

[GC1980]

Originally Posted by NickM

Bill Russell says that's cute.

The Finals MVP trophy is named after the man. He is another one, along with Wilt and Larry Bird. MJ may be the clear consensus number 1 and he is my favorite player of all time but Magic, Kareem, Russell, Wilt and Bird are right there behind him. They just weren't lucky enough to have the marketing and presence MJ did. Magic did to an extent but he was a few years too early and his illness took him from the game When he still had some prime years left and the NBA was really exploding.