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Old 05-12-2018, 12:17 AM   #401
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That's a stretch.

Youíre confusing it with romaine lettuce.
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Old 05-12-2018, 12:46 AM   #402
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So you believe Topps basically wipes their hands clean to another party to package out the cards but yet cards don't actually make it into the product or get made EVER and Topps has NOTHING to do with it

And yes Topps does have a warehouse with product (I can order directly from them). They don't hold back 50% of product but I can assure you 5% is!

Lol

They have all the incentive in the world to front load and back load products... We don't know for certain that every single case got bought out directly from Topps to distributors or that they don't add a little extra production run at the end. They can easily hold back anything they want which increases demand for the next product. Clearly you have never run a business before...

Topps has been shady for 30 years. This isn't anything new. They do everything they can to drive up demand to increase production down the road. It's a simple dynamic.

The simple fact ANY card at all is held out of product is an embarrassment and a shady business practice. They are flat out lying to consumers. But luckily for them it is a sports card business now and less of a hobby so they can get away with almost anything they want.

They 100% load products differently and hold cards out to be released. We can agree to disagree on it.

So you think they’re sitting on 4-5 pallets (400-500 cases of 2018 Bowman)? That would be the 5% you’re talking about. Also, you can order direct from Topps if you want to set up that type of account and take on EVERY product and predetermined amounts of product (For 2012 that was $30K to remain direct). If you’re talking about the 100 or so boxes that go up on Topps.com, sure.


You’re numbers are WAAAAAAY off and it’s either that you don’t know math or don’t know what you’re talking about. Don’t believe me on how the card manufacturing process takes place, you can literally go to YouTube and see it for yourself.

The same company that printed the sheets of Bowman prints Uno cards as well as various other cards. That’s better business for Topps, the same way it’s better for Topps to use a distributor to put their product out. Clearly, you have never run a business.

The company that sells some of manufacturing equipment to the card printing company (forget the name) is Keyence. These cards aren’t designed, printed, packed, and distributed all under the Topps umbrella as that would be an enormous waste of money. Topps deals with designing the cards and obtaining the “hits”. Topps then ships the packing company the “hits” and tells the company “put this sleeve of cards to be spit out every 600 packs”. The entire print run is then wrapped, packed, and ready to be moved down the supply chain.

That’s the cliff notes version. If you’d like I can see if the next time my buddy sells the manufacturing equipment to the actual manufacturer to take pictures for you if you are unable to figure out how to look this process up on YouTube.
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Old 05-12-2018, 04:54 AM   #403
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Surprised these highend Ohtani's aren't getting graded before being put up for sale.

2018 Bowman Chrome Red Refractor Shohei Ohtani Angels RC AUTO 5/5
Sold yesterday for 5k more than the last one. Maybe because the autographs a little bettter?
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Old 05-12-2018, 07:06 AM   #404
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So you think theyíre sitting on 4-5 pallets (400-500 cases of 2018 Bowman)? That would be the 5% youíre talking about. Also, you can order direct from Topps if you want to set up that type of account and take on EVERY product and predetermined amounts of product (For 2012 that was $30K to remain direct). If youíre talking about the 100 or so boxes that go up on Topps.com, sure.


Youíre numbers are WAAAAAAY off and itís either that you donít know math or donít know what youíre talking about. Donít believe me on how the card manufacturing process takes place, you can literally go to YouTube and see it for yourself.

The same company that printed the sheets of Bowman prints Uno cards as well as various other cards. Thatís better business for Topps, the same way itís better for Topps to use a distributor to put their product out. Clearly, you have never run a business.

The company that sells some of manufacturing equipment to the card printing company (forget the name) is Keyence. These cards arenít designed, printed, packed, and distributed all under the Topps umbrella as that would be an enormous waste of money. Topps deals with designing the cards and obtaining the ďhitsĒ. Topps then ships the packing company the ďhitsĒ and tells the company ďput this sleeve of cards to be spit out every 600 packsĒ. The entire print run is then wrapped, packed, and ready to be moved down the supply chain.

Thatís the cliff notes version. If youíd like I can see if the next time my buddy sells the manufacturing equipment to the actual manufacturer to take pictures for you if you are unable to figure out how to look this process up on YouTube.
Convenient how you clearly decided to leave out that Topps has 0 say in the packaging process once it's handed off. I'm sure they wipe their hands clean of their process. That's not how a large successful business works. Lol

You were wrong on them having a warehouse with product and them keeping inventory for whatever the reasons. They 100% do that.

Anyways. No point in arguing. You think Topps just passes off the process and is done with it. That's not what happens. I also built and own 3 businesses and don't need YouTube to "understand" them (That would be what a rookie and naive person needs). It's clear you have a lot to learn. I don't disagree that another company prints the cards. That doesn't mean anything.

Anyways. Again. We can agree to disagree. It's ok.
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Old 05-12-2018, 08:57 AM   #405
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Convenient how you clearly decided to leave out that Topps has 0 say in the packaging process once it's handed off. I'm sure they wipe their hands clean of their process. That's not how a large successful business works. Lol

You were wrong on them having a warehouse with product and them keeping inventory for whatever the reasons. They 100% do that.

Anyways. No point in arguing. You think Topps just passes off the process and is done with it. That's not what happens. I also built and own 3 businesses and don't need YouTube to "understand" them (That would be what a rookie and naive person needs). It's clear you have a lot to learn. I don't disagree that another company prints the cards. That doesn't mean anything.

Anyways. Again. We can agree to disagree. It's ok.
It’s not just that another company prints the cards, that same company (or a 3rd party packer), handles all the packing for Topps as well. Topps couldn’t tell you what box/case the Ohtani Super (or any other card) is in, because they weren’t there for the process.

I’m trying to teach you. Since you think you know I’ve actually copied an SEC filing from Topps. Below my crooked highlighting is the paragraph that explains what I’ve explained to you:









https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...4/form10-k.pdf

The above is the link to the 62 page SEC filing. The “production” part of the process is on page 6 and 7.

While you were busy building and owning 3 businesses, I’m sure you just missed how Topps runs their company. But you’re right, there’s no further need to argue. What I’ve been telling you wasn’t something I dreamed up, it’s actually straight from the companies mouth about how their operation is run. Just cut it with your half-cocked conspiracy theories that aren’t based in anything other than your imagination. Thankfully for you, there are some rational people that want to bring you back to reality.

Or......the government is in on the Topps front-loading/holding back product scam.


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Old 05-12-2018, 09:45 AM   #406
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Itís not just that another company prints the cards, that same company (or a 3rd party packer), handles all the packing for Topps as well. Topps couldnít tell you what box/case the Ohtani Super (or any other card) is in, because they werenít there for the process.

Iím trying to teach you. Since you think you know Iíve actually copied an SEC filing from Topps. Below my crooked highlighting is the paragraph that explains what Iíve explained to you:









https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...4/form10-k.pdf

The above is the link to the 62 page SEC filing. The ďproductionĒ part of the process is on page 6 and 7.

While you were busy building and owning 3 businesses, Iím sure you just missed how Topps runs their company. But youíre right, thereís no further need to argue. What Iíve been telling you wasnít something I dreamed up, itís actually straight from the companies mouth about how their operation is run. Just cut it with your half-cocked conspiracy theories that arenít based in anything other than your imagination. Thankfully for you, there are some rational people that want to bring you back to reality.

Or......the government is in on the Topps front-loading/holding back product scam.

Great post. And for someone like me who has no insider knowledge and just uses common sense, again, what does Topps gain by holding back a lottery card so that it isn't hit until later? They sell ALL their product months in advance to LCS and distributors.
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Old 05-12-2018, 10:17 AM   #407
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Great post. And for someone like me who has no insider knowledge and just uses common sense, again, what does Topps gain by holding back a lottery card so that it isn't hit until later? They sell ALL their product months in advance to LCS and distributors.
Let's be clear. I am not saying this is happening.

That being said, to answer your question about what Topps would have to gain by holding back a lottery ticket card, it could potentially hurt a product when it surfaces. (potentially, not saying this is the case.)

I don't know if Topps has a special relationship with BO or if BO is just another customer, but considering the volume they sell, I would have to think they have their own Topps rep.

Another thought, by no means is this something I am saying is happening, but maybe BO asked Topps to hold it back until later so they can get all this free publicity with their $100,000 offer for the Ohtani superfractor.

Who knows? Maybe none of this is happening. But does it make sense that any of this could possibly happen? I realize Bowman sells out either way and Topps doesn't get secondary market money, but the hype can only help sell future products, at least it does in my opinion.
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Old 05-12-2018, 10:26 AM   #408
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Risk vs Reward for legit companies isn't really worth it for 1 release.

I am surprised it hasn't shown up yet ,but recent basketball National Treasures release had a lot of top pull hit before release day. So it goes both ways.
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Old 05-12-2018, 11:12 AM   #409
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We're talking about one card. Would anyone be surprised if they didn't see the Colton Welker refractor auto numbered 055/499 by now?
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Old 05-12-2018, 12:29 PM   #410
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Let's be clear. I am not saying this is happening.

That being said, to answer your question about what Topps would have to gain by holding back a lottery ticket card, it could potentially hurt a product when it surfaces. (potentially, not saying this is the case.)

I don't know if Topps has a special relationship with BO or if BO is just another customer, but considering the volume they sell, I would have to think they have their own Topps rep.

Another thought, by no means is this something I am saying is happening, but maybe BO asked Topps to hold it back until later so they can get all this free publicity with their $100,000 offer for the Ohtani superfractor.

Who knows? Maybe none of this is happening. But does it make sense that any of this could possibly happen? I realize Bowman sells out either way and Topps doesn't get secondary market money, but the hype can only help sell future products, at least it does in my opinion.

This only makes sense if you’re already thinking along those lines anyway.

Let’s say the Super was pulled day 1, Bowman still sells well and keeps its following next year. The Trout Super has been pulled but 2009 still sells. As a matter of fact, seeing these cards and these secondary market sales draws in more for the chase the following year. The hype on this Wonka ticket has worked whether the card surfaces today or in 2 years.

BO could have asked Topps to hold it back, but as i’ve pointed out above, Topps does not share in any of the printing or packing out process. So now not only would Topps have to oblige a retailer (who’s not as big as a distributor), but they’d also have to hold onto the other cards to fill boxes/cases with to get the Super out at the right time. They’d have to pack all that themselves and it’s just another layer in production for them. All of this over a card who’s secondary market value is irrelevant to Topps.

What you’re saying is possible, it’s just not plausible. It’s not even worth the hassle from any card company to do this. The second Topps shifts it’s focus to appeasing the secondary market they lose direction. Too many chefs in the kitchen type scenario.

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Risk vs Reward for legit companies isn't really worth it for 1 release.

I am surprised it hasn't shown up yet ,but recent basketball National Treasures release had a lot of top pull hit before release day. So it goes both ways.

Remember, NT has a print run around 30% of Bowman. Also, it’s a product that is built for case breakers. 40 cards is a lot easier to open, ship, and sort vs. 2,880 or 3,072 cards (hobby or Jumbo). I can break 10 cases of NT in the amount of time it takes me to do 2-3 boxes of Bowman.
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Old 05-12-2018, 12:33 PM   #411
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We're talking about one card. Would anyone be surprised if they didn't see the Colton Welker refractor auto numbered 055/499 by now?
This has been haunting my dreams.
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Old 05-12-2018, 12:55 PM   #412
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It’s not just that another company prints the cards, that same company (or a 3rd party packer), handles all the packing for Topps as well. Topps couldn’t tell you what box/case the Ohtani Super (or any other card) is in, because they weren’t there for the process.

I’m trying to teach you. Since you think you know I’ve actually copied an SEC filing from Topps. Below my crooked highlighting is the paragraph that explains what I’ve explained to you:









https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...4/form10-k.pdf

The above is the link to the 62 page SEC filing. The “production” part of the process is on page 6 and 7.

While you were busy building and owning 3 businesses, I’m sure you just missed how Topps runs their company. But you’re right, there’s no further need to argue. What I’ve been telling you wasn’t something I dreamed up, it’s actually straight from the companies mouth about how their operation is run. Just cut it with your half-cocked conspiracy theories that aren’t based in anything other than your imagination. Thankfully for you, there are some rational people that want to bring you back to reality.

Or......the government is in on the Topps front-loading/holding back product scam.

So supposedly "all" the cards are created and packaged out by another company but yet Topps has some of the highest end cards for which they use for replacement cards. Convenient right?

Topps does have a say in what gets made and if they all get packaged out. To think they just pass it off and have no say in the process at all beyond it leaving their offices is just naive. There is a reason Topps ends up with certain cards in which they use for replacements (It's not by pure luck).... Not sure if you know this or not. But most business is corrupt. Especially at larger scale companies. Lucky for most the government doesn't really care so long as they get theirs. But hey. Welcome to the real world.

I'm sorry if my real world and business experience is slightly higher than yours. I could care less if it happens or not. I'm saying it is 100% possible that it can happen and Topps does stand to gain by front or back loading product. This creates extra demand in which production can increase down the road. Business 101

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Old 05-12-2018, 01:58 PM   #413
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So supposedly "all" the cards are created and packaged out by another company but yet Topps has some of the highest end cards for which they use for replacement cards. Convenient right?

Topps does have a say in what gets made and if they all get packaged out. To think they just pass it off and have no say in the process at all beyond it leaving their offices is just naive. There is a reason Topps ends up with certain cards in which they use for replacements (It's not by pure luck).... Not sure if you know this or not. But most business is corrupt. Especially at larger scale companies. Lucky for most the government doesn't really care so long as they get theirs. But hey. Welcome to the real world.

I'm sorry if my real world and business experience is slightly higher than yours. I could care less if it happens or not. I'm saying it is 100% possible that it can happen and Topps does stand to gain by front or back loading product. This creates extra demand in which production can increase down the road. Business 101
Youíre likely in your early 20ís with an unfinished associates degree who MAY have been a shift leader at Einstein Bagels. Thatís about where your business acumen seems to stop.

You claim a bunch of garbage that is clear to any adult on this board. You then are proven wrong in your claims by Toppsí personal SEC filings, not that I think you understand what those are with your vast knowledge of running and owning 3 separate businesses.

Youíre a tool, and when proven utterly wrong, you double down.

Iím not saying youíre one of the least competent members Iíve come across on these boards, but itís ď100% possibleĒ.

If youíre as knowledgeable in ďbusinessĒ as you are in the card market, I suspect everything above to be true. Good luck with all youíre future business endeavors
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Old 05-12-2018, 02:02 PM   #414
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So supposedly "all" the cards are created and packaged out by another company but yet Topps has some of the highest end cards for which they use for replacement cards. Convenient right?

Topps does have a say in what gets made and if they all get packaged out. To think they just pass it off and have no say in the process at all beyond it leaving their offices is just naive. There is a reason Topps ends up with certain cards in which they use for replacements (It's not by pure luck).... Not sure if you know this or not. But most business is corrupt. Especially at larger scale companies. Lucky for most the government doesn't really care so long as they get theirs. But hey. Welcome to the real world.

I'm sorry if my real world and business experience is slightly higher than yours. I could care less if it happens or not. I'm saying it is 100% possible that it can happen and Topps does stand to gain by front or back loading product. This creates extra demand in which production can increase down the road. Business 101
You seem like a real hot shot. How's your business going on Ebay selling little kitty pull up shorts & other pre-owned clothes?
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Old 05-12-2018, 02:08 PM   #415
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You seem like a real hot shot. How's your business going on Ebay selling little kitty pull up shorts & other pre-owned clothes?
Lol ouch
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Old 05-12-2018, 02:09 PM   #416
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Lol ouch
What's wrong with Little Kitty pull up shorts?
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Old 05-12-2018, 02:39 PM   #417
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It’s already been proven they hold cards back for replacements
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Old 05-12-2018, 02:59 PM   #418
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Itís already been proven they hold cards back for replacements
Holding back 1 Ohtani Orange to replace one of the 25 in case of unintended damage is one thing. Holding back the Super, or back-loading it, is completely a different story.

Most of your redemption replacement cards, and even some damaged replacement cards are just unredeemed redemptions from other sets.

There is nothing nefarious about it.
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Old 05-12-2018, 03:05 PM   #419
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How bout them Yankees.

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Old 05-12-2018, 04:08 PM   #420
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You seem like a real hot shot. How's your business going on Ebay selling little kitty pull up shorts & other pre-owned clothes?
You seem upset that I have a girl in my life. I apologize if her selling some clothing on eBay upsets you though

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Old 05-12-2018, 04:13 PM   #421
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You’re likely in your early 20’s with an unfinished associates degree who MAY have been a shift leader at Einstein Bagels. That’s about where your business acumen seems to stop.

You claim a bunch of garbage that is clear to any adult on this board. You then are proven wrong in your claims by Topps’ personal SEC filings, not that I think you understand what those are with your vast knowledge of running and owning 3 separate businesses.

You’re a tool, and when proven utterly wrong, you double down.

I’m not saying you’re one of the least competent members I’ve come across on these boards, but it’s “100% possible”.

If you’re as knowledgeable in “business” as you are in the card market, I suspect everything above to be true. Good luck with all you’re future business endeavors
Your claim was another company packages the cards out which I agreed to as I never said they didn't. Again that doesn't mean they wash their hands clean from there (Which is hard for you to process it seems. Then when shown why that's the case I'm wrong. Lol)

I didn't need to throw personal insults around. So sad when you act like a child and then call the other person one. Guess that's adulting at its finest.

Good luck with personal attacks on an Internet forum. Tough having a shred of class these days. Best wishes

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Old 05-12-2018, 04:27 PM   #422
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You seem upset that I have a girl in my life. I apologize if her selling some clothing on eBay upsets you though
Not sure how you figure I'm upset. I have no problem with your mom selling clothes on Ebay
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Old 05-12-2018, 04:33 PM   #423
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Not sure how you figure I'm upset. I have no problem with your mom selling clothes on Ebay
Let's examine your actions:
- Spent time to go through my eBay account (Fine)
- Decided to make a pointless post about my account designed to sell things on the internet
- Couldn't read and/or understand the difference between Lilly Pulitzer and little kitty
- Resorts to childish and immature 3rd grade attacks
- Uses mom jokes

Feel free to keep going buddy. You aren't showing your pathetic nature or anything. It's the internet world though so feel free to act cool on the internet and insult people. Shows who you truly are.
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Old 05-12-2018, 04:36 PM   #424
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my apologies. It wasn't little kitty. It was call me kitty cat. I know I know, big difference...


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lilly-Pulit...IAAOSwwq1auwqn
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Old 05-12-2018, 04:40 PM   #425
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my apologies. It wasn't little kitty. It was call me kitty cat. I know I know, big difference...


https://www.ebay.com/itm/Lilly-Pulit...IAAOSwwq1auwqn
Yes. Lilly Pulitzer apparently names the shorts they make

Reading is tough. But hey. You definitely showed your education level and childish nature.

Congrats I suppose?

Again. Sorry if my girlfriend posting clothing on a place designed for selling things on the internet makes you upset (She also has it listed on Poshmark and other sites. Those are also designed to sell things on the internet). Wow. Just wow. Pathetic.

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