Blowout Cards Forums
Wave TUE

Go Back   Blowout Cards Forums > BLOWOUTS HOBBY TALK > BASEBALL

Notices

BASEBALL Post your Baseball Cards Hobby Talk

View Poll Results: When will the NL adopt the DH?
Within 3 Years 23 17.97%
Within 5 Years 17 13.28%
Within 10 Years 14 10.94%
Never! 74 57.81%
Voters: 128. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-21-2018, 12:37 PM   #26
coachnip13
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Siesta Key, FL
Posts: 2,932
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Americards View Post
what strategy???
a pitcher is due up, with men on base and they need the runs, they bat for him...
if a pitcher comes in the game , the guy who batted last comes out for a double switch so the pitcher "DOESNT HAVE TO HIT" for at least 8 batters..
Real strategy...
LOL

What if the starting pitcher is shoving in the sixth inning when he comes up to bat with the bases loaded in a 1-1 game?

What if the three guys who batted last are your 3-4-5 hitters? Easy double switch, right?

If there was no strategy involved, we wouldn't see AL managers muck it up.
coachnip13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 12:37 PM   #27
Astros19
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,295
Default

Hopefully never.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Astros19 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 12:41 PM   #28
VeedonFleece
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The 01246
Posts: 3,405
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainUgly View Post
I can nearly guarantee that you align with whatever league your favorite team plays in. If you are a Boston or NYY fan...you appreciate the DH much more than the fans of LAD or SFG. If you ask any coach/manager which league is more strategic...it's always the NL over the AL. It's actually a question of if you want to see the double switch a part of baseball or not.
Agree with this but I find it's typically the fans of AL teams shouting loudest that fans of NL teams are watching the wrong kind of baseball.

As someone on Effectively Wild said, though not the hosts who are both anti-pitchers hitting, 'f*** the DH!'
VeedonFleece is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 01:01 PM   #29
CaptainUgly
Member
 
CaptainUgly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern California
Posts: 815
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VeedonFleece View Post
Agree with this but I find it's typically the fans of AL teams shouting loudest that fans of NL teams are watching the wrong kind of baseball.

As someone on Effectively Wild said, though not the hosts who are both anti-pitchers hitting, 'f*** the DH!'

But as others have already pointed out...this will be a change that MLB will probably make in the next decade or so but it will have everything to do with viewership and the almighty dollar than strategy. The casual fan wants to see HR's and runs...not a 2-1 pitchers duel.
CaptainUgly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 01:12 PM   #30
Chrisyork33
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 1,081
Default

The AL Vs NL debate is one of the great things about MLB. Don't bring DHs to NL
Chrisyork33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 01:19 PM   #31
PejaD
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 2,375
Default

The DH is NOT mandatory in the AL. A team foregoes the option if they have their pitcher hit or as soon as the DH takes the field to play a position. Thus, if you have a starting pitcher that is a great hitter and want him to hit, you can simply exercise to forego the DH for your team in that game.

I believe the NL will adopt the AL's DH option in the future. It may be as soon as 2020 or as late as the next expansion. The DH is used at the college, junior college and many high school levels today. It only makes sense that it becomes universal as specialization increases in the sport and injuries want to be prevented.
PejaD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 01:28 PM   #32
CaptainUgly
Member
 
CaptainUgly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Northern California
Posts: 815
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PejaD View Post
The DH is NOT mandatory in the AL. A team foregoes the option if they have their pitcher hit or as soon as the DH takes the field to play a position. Thus, if you have a starting pitcher that is a great hitter and want him to hit, you can simply exercise to forego the DH for your team in that game.

I believe the NL will adopt the AL's DH option in the future. It may be as soon as 2020 or as late as the next expansion. The DH is used at the college, junior college and many high school levels today. It only makes sense that it becomes universal as specialization increases in the sport and injuries want to be prevented.

Very well said. I'm very good friends with my local JC Baseball coach and at this level (fresh out of high school)...he has a few two-way players and the whole DH v. pitchers hitting is a legitimate strategy. As for the MLB level...I can't recall an AL game where the starting pitcher has also bat.
CaptainUgly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 01:31 PM   #33
coachnip13
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Siesta Key, FL
Posts: 2,932
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PejaD View Post
The DH is used at the college, junior college and many high school levels today. It only makes sense that it becomes universal as specialization increases in the sport and injuries want to be prevented.
I don't think any coach at any level is using the DH to prevent injuries. It is being used to put the best lineup on the field. Many colleges have pitchers who hit, thus they use the P/DH rule. In high school the worst hitter is DH'd for, and that is rarely the pitcher.
coachnip13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 02:40 PM   #34
smapdi
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 661
Default

Growing up in Philadelphia, the DH was always strange to me. I mean, once you see Randy Lerch hit 2 homers in a game, it's tough to think he needs someone to bat for him. I get that there is specialization that didn't exist in the game as it was first created, but this is a core value.

But on the other hand, someone once posed it like this. As NL ball is often described as a "chess match" with the need to manage the lineup as well as the pitcher, imagine if chess had a rule where, every 9 moves, you had to move a pawn one space forward. You can move any pawn, but for that move it has to be a pawn. In some cases that is the exact right move, but how often? And how does that affect your strategy leading up to that move?

The irony is the NL proposed the DH first and the AL rejected it.
smapdi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 05:59 PM   #35
rman112
Member
 
rman112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Svenborgia
Posts: 11,849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rngrdanny22 View Post
I'm completely opposite. The game was invented with the intention of the nine players on each team had to field and hit. The DH inevitably made it where half the league fields 9 1/2 players.

With that said...
Do I like watching pitchers hit? Not really.
Will the NL ever use a DH? Probably.


I would equate the DH to the NBA changing the way free throws are done. Why not allow a bench-playing free throw specialist take all of them instead of players who "might not be very good at it"?
There's no position group in the NBA that consistently shoots ~15% from the line, year in and year out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by coachnip13 View Post
LOL

What if the starting pitcher is shoving in the sixth inning when he comes up to bat with the bases loaded in a 1-1 game?

What if the three guys who batted last are your 3-4-5 hitters? Easy double switch, right?

If there was no strategy involved, we wouldn't see AL managers muck it up.
That's a good point. Who wants to see a dealing pitcher get taken out after 5 or 6 innings because he sucks at a completely different skill set?

Want to naturally increase offense? Universal DH. No stupid banning shifts or continually screwing with the baseball.
rman112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 06:29 PM   #36
rngrdanny22
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 2,824
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rman112 View Post
There's no position group in the NBA that consistently shoots ~15% from the line, year in and year out.

The league batting average is approximately .240
The league batting average (pitchers) is approximately .110
~54.2% worse


The 2017-2018 FT % was .767
To equate to pitchers, someone would have to shoot around .351




Bah, you win but I still stand by it.
rngrdanny22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 06:36 PM   #37
SaveMeTheGum
Member
 
SaveMeTheGum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: New Englander stuck in CA
Posts: 11,136
Default

Probably around the same time the Red Sox start DH'ing for JBJ...
__________________
Pay fast. Ship fast. Deal with people honestly.
SaveMeTheGum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-21-2018, 10:08 PM   #38
epatmythes
Member
 
epatmythes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Da U.P. Eh!
Posts: 531
Default

hopefully never
epatmythes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 04:22 AM   #39
MOONBASE1
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: East Coast
Posts: 348
Default

Would not like to see the DH in the NL.
MOONBASE1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 06:22 AM   #40
danimal875
Member
 
danimal875's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Central New Jersey
Posts: 3,849
Default

Its a ridiculously simple problem to solve. In the National League, the pitcher does not have a plate appearance. 8 man lineup. No extra high paid DH, no automatic outs.
danimal875 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 10:42 PM   #41
Americards
Member
 
Americards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 2,782
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainUgly View Post
You're beyond naive if you think that's all there is to a double switch.
You're missing the point,
They Double switch so the pitcher doesn't have to hit...
If pitchers could hit, you wouldn't see double switches


This was about pitchers hitting or having a DH

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
Americards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 10:42 PM   #42
rman112
Member
 
rman112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Svenborgia
Posts: 11,849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by danimal875 View Post
Its a ridiculously simple problem to solve. In the National League, the pitcher does not have a plate appearance. 8 man lineup. No extra high paid DH, no automatic outs.
That won't happen.
rman112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 11:02 PM   #43
RogerGodahell
Member
 
RogerGodahell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: You know what the best part about winter is? Nothing
Posts: 12,087
Default

I wish there was no DH. If you first go back to when these guys first started playing baseball as kids in little league all the way up through high school most of them weren't only the best pitchers on the team a lot of them were actually the best hitters also. It's when they go to college they start turning them into pitching specialist. It's too bad they just don't let them play imo. We'd have more players like Ohtani who can do both.
__________________
CHECK OUT MY COMC STORE
<-------------------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Last edited by RogerGodahell; 06-22-2018 at 11:04 PM.
RogerGodahell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 11:08 PM   #44
rman112
Member
 
rman112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Svenborgia
Posts: 11,849
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerGodahell View Post
I wish there was no DH. If you first go back to when these guys first started playing baseball as kids in little league all the way up through high school most of them weren't only the best pitchers on the team a lot of them were actually the best hitters also. It's when they go to college they start turning them into pitching specialist. It's too bad they just don't let them play imo. We'd have more players like Ohtani who can do both.
Who says Ohtani can really do both though? Skill yes, but actually do it for a full season?

Pitchers as a whole will never be able to put up close to the production of a full time hitter.

Think of all the work that a hitter puts in on a day to day basis. Then think of all the work that pitchers put in. There's a reason guys don't do both.
rman112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 11:15 PM   #45
Peties Army
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,232
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerGodahell View Post
I wish there was no DH. If you first go back to when these guys first started playing baseball as kids in little league all the way up through high school most of them weren't only the best pitchers on the team a lot of them were actually the best hitters also. It's when they go to college they start turning them into pitching specialist. It's too bad they just don't let them play imo. We'd have more players like Ohtani who can do both.
This is false. The reason we don’t see more guys like Ohtani (pitchers who can really hit. And not just for power but are also really good hitters) has nothing to do with them not be allowed to do it, but has to do with hitting a baseball and throwing a baseball to get hitters out is really really hard, becoming good at both is near impossible.

It certainly has nothing to do with coaches not “letting them play”.
__________________
Quit lookin’ at the ponies!

- Ashes
Peties Army is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 11:16 PM   #46
Peties Army
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,232
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rman112 View Post
Who says Ohtani can really do both though? Skill yes, but actually do it for a full season?

Pitchers as a whole will never be able to put up close to the production of a full time hitter.

Think of all the work that a hitter puts in on a day to day basis. Then think of all the work that pitchers put in. There's a reason guys don't do both.
This! 100% this.
__________________
Quit lookin’ at the ponies!

- Ashes
Peties Army is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 11:27 PM   #47
RogerGodahell
Member
 
RogerGodahell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: You know what the best part about winter is? Nothing
Posts: 12,087
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rman112 View Post
Who says Ohtani can really do both though? Skill yes, but actually do it for a full season?

Pitchers as a whole will never be able to put up close to the production of a full time hitter.

Think of all the work that a hitter puts in on a day to day basis. Then think of all the work that pitchers put in. There's a reason guys don't do both.
It's hard to say for sure because they've never done it. I realize the game has changed a lot since the old days but there used to be a few pitchers that could hit pretty good with a decent amount of plate appearances.

This is a few years old but still pretty interesting.

__________________
CHECK OUT MY COMC STORE
<-------------------------------
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
RogerGodahell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-22-2018, 11:30 PM   #48
StraWMyerS
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Clifton Park, NY
Posts: 2,504
Default

Personally always hated the DH rule... I'm simply an NL baseball fan through and through.
StraWMyerS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2018, 12:13 AM   #49
Peties Army
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 11,232
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerGodahell View Post
It's hard to say for sure because they've never done it. I realize the game has changed a lot since the old days but there used to be a few pitchers that could hit pretty good with a decent amount of plate appearances.

This is a few years old but still pretty interesting.

The most recent person is over 50 years ago. Not exactly most revelant.
__________________
Quit lookin’ at the ponies!

- Ashes
Peties Army is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-25-2018, 10:08 PM   #50
rman112
Member
 
rman112's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Svenborgia
Posts: 11,849
Default

I was thinking about this. Part of it is that pitchers should be able to hit, right? The idea that players should be able to do it all, no specialists? But I never hear that your everyday hitter should also be able to pitch..
rman112 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2013, Blowout Cards Inc.