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Old 08-16-2018, 01:48 PM   #126
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Brady will go down in the future anyway. They all do.

Everyone has a peak.
Tom Brady isn’t everyone
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Old 08-16-2018, 02:56 PM   #127
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Tom Brady isn’t everyone
Football isn’t basketball or baseball... top tier items will remain the same and rise... the rest will fall and lot of non rc, non auto stuff already has dipped a lot
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:21 PM   #128
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I couldn't move 2001 Topps Chrome Brees...I'd say mine was about a 9, though it wasn't graded. Couldn't move it for $150 and I finally sold for about $120 in January/February 2017. What the hell happened with this card? I still remember pulling it at a supermarket back in 2001...went back the next day and bought the remaining ten packs and found the Tomlinson Black/100. That was a Chargers fans dream back in 2001 lol. I'm not much of a football guy but i never saw this on the horizon for the Brees rc haha
NO one did. Now 1 year later all of the group-think gurus are touting Larry Fitzgerald and all of the HOF bound players who have been shooting up in price over the last year, and projecting it to be a "solid buy" for the next 10 years! Even though, it was completely off the radar until fairly recently.

The market turned. But for any one of these people to pretend to think they know where the market is headed is laughable. They think they know the cause and have no real clue.

Funny.
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Old 08-16-2018, 04:30 PM   #129
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NO one did. Now 1 year later all of the group-think gurus are touting Larry Fitzgerald and all of the HOF bound players who have been shooting up in price over the last year, and projecting it to be a "solid buy" for the next 10 years! Even though, it was completely off the radar until fairly recently.

The market turned. But for any one of these people to pretend to think they know where the market is headed is laughable. They think they know the cause and have no real clue.

Funny.
You can only go on trends..... earlier chrome rookies from the more limited years of 00-05 have steadily gone up for 5 years now and that had included a boom for some guys. Speculation on why... could be limited runs, could be early adult nostalgia buyers who didn’t have the money in their early 20s.... could be fomo from brady or other sale spike trends. Could be a combo of it all. I personally think some of the items (like chrome black /100 and spa gold /25) will become cards of this modern generation for fitz, Brees, Ben. But yea, for anyone to claim they know the “exact” reason definitely is a bit foolish.
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Old 08-16-2018, 06:39 PM   #130
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Aaron Rodgers: 1-36 when trailing by more than 1 point in 4th quarter against teams with a winning record.


So you call that Mr. Clutch?


I may have to put this in my signature...what a great stat
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Old 08-16-2018, 06:51 PM   #131
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I keep seeing this posted about guys like Ryan & Stafford yet...

This is from a Stafford article I posted but as you can see Ryan has actually done it more than Brady,Brees,Big Ben and you notice some names that aren't on there...….Rodgers?

I'd argue those arbitrary stats are useless if you're looking at the bigger picture.

How is Ryan viewed by the fans in general? The hobby?

Stafford probably has a better rep at this point.

But other than that, barring a title, both will simply be nothing more than prolific qb's with nothing much to show for it.

Do either have memorable career defining moments (outside of their hometown fans)?

Neither had the draft cache or pedigree of a Peyton Manning either...so their name never carried that kind of weight throughout their careers when the rings weren't there.

Small markets as well.


Not saying either won't win a ring eventually, but as of right now it's still an investment that has small ROI potential barring the hardware.


A good basketball analogy would be Carmelo Anthony. Will most likely end his career as a top 20 scorer and one of the most prolific shooters of this generation. But in the eyes of the public and hobby, he is widely forgettable.
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:04 PM   #132
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Aaron Rodgers: 1-36 when trailing by more than 1 point in 4th quarter against teams with a winning record.


So you call that Mr. Clutch?


I may have to put this in my signature...what a great stat
He's trash, I'll take every Rodgers you have at 60% eBay value, sell to me before it's too late. With all the money you could buy some really nice Stafford's or Ryan's, they are much more clutch than Rodgers. #notClutch #RELAX #BuyStaffordandRyan
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:08 PM   #133
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He's trash, I'll take every Rodgers you have at 60% eBay value, sell to me before it's too late. With all the money you could buy some really nice Stafford's or Ryan's, they are much more clutch than Rodgers. #notClutch #RELAX #BuyStaffordandRyan
calm down
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Old 08-16-2018, 08:26 PM   #134
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He's trash, I'll take every Rodgers you have at 60% eBay value, sell to me before it's too late. With all the money you could buy some really nice Stafford's or Ryan's, they are much more clutch than Rodgers. #notClutch #RELAX #BuyStaffordandRyan
It’s clear as day that every modern era mvp q.b is clutch to some extent.... manning, Rodgers, Brady... multi time mvps and greats of the game, all clutch and their teams win because of them

Newton, Ryan... both capable of being the best for a period of time.... Ryan took his team to a super bowl and had 130 q.b rating.... it was enough to win. Newton was two plays from being 19-0. Again, that year he was undisputed the best player. These guys just don’t bring their top level on a regular basis.

Winston, Stafford, rivers, Eli Manning... these guys just aren’t good enough to play at peak potential for 16 games. It doesn’t mean over a career that newton is better than Eli..... it just means some guys perform at their peak way more than others. Clutch is playing like your usual self when stakes are the highest. Expecting more than your average in a big game isn’t fair; but all too often guys play below their usual. They are not clutch
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:39 PM   #135
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He's trash, I'll take every Rodgers you have at 60% eBay value, sell to me before it's too late. With all the money you could buy some really nice Stafford's or Ryan's, they are much more clutch than Rodgers. #notClutch #RELAX #BuyStaffordandRyan
I got rid of most of my Rodgers. I never called him trash and have said before in other threads he was a great QB. But I also still stand by the stats that he isn't clutch. Easy killer
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:52 PM   #136
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I'd argue those arbitrary stats are useless if you're looking at the bigger picture.

How is Ryan viewed by the fans in general? The hobby?

Stafford probably has a better rep at this point.

But other than that, barring a title, both will simply be nothing more than prolific qb's with nothing much to show for it.

Do either have memorable career defining moments (outside of their hometown fans)?

Neither had the draft cache or pedigree of a Peyton Manning either...so their name never carried that kind of weight throughout their careers when the rings weren't there.

Small markets as well.


Not saying either won't win a ring eventually, but as of right now it's still an investment that has small ROI potential barring the hardware.


A good basketball analogy would be Carmelo Anthony. Will most likely end his career as a top 20 scorer and one of the most prolific shooters of this generation. But in the eyes of the public and hobby, he is widely forgettable.
While I agree Stafford does need a playoff run and possible Super Bowl he is climbing the record books at record paces. He already owns pretty much all franchise records all with out a running game. I was just replying with stats the one guy left off. I never said he was the best investment. I do think if he takes the Lions to a SB you will see a spike in his cards.
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Old 08-16-2018, 10:49 PM   #137
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While I agree Stafford does need a playoff run and possible Super Bowl he is climbing the record books at record paces. He already owns pretty much all franchise records all with out a running game. I was just replying with stats the one guy left off. I never said he was the best investment. I do think if he takes the Lions to a SB you will see a spike in his cards.
I agree with you. It's just tough for me to find yesteryear comparisons for some of these qb's that will inevitably go an entire career without a SB victory.

I don't recall too many people being nostalgic about Jim Kelly, Vinny Testaverde, or Dan Marino a decade after their retirement.

He'll inevitably go down as the best Lions qb in history, though. However, that's not very tough to do based off their drafting pedigree and decisions at the position lol.
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Old 08-17-2018, 12:03 AM   #138
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He's trash, I'll take every Rodgers you have at 60% eBay value, sell to me before it's too late. With all the money you could buy some really nice Stafford's or Ryan's, they are much more clutch than Rodgers. #notClutch #RELAX #BuyStaffordandRyan
You should be upset with Rodgers about this stat, not me.
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Old 08-17-2018, 02:31 PM   #139
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You should be upset with Rodgers about this stat, not me.
It's a deceiving stat that twisty likes to throw out there b/c in his mind Stafford is better than Rodgers...Statistically. I think it was something ESPN brought up before last season. Like I said, if he's not worth investing in to you I'll buy them up and you can go buy some Stafford's if you want. Twisty knows the only way Stafford's will ever increase is if he can make a strong playoff run, at least win A playoff game that would be a good start.
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Old 08-17-2018, 02:39 PM   #140
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It's a deceiving stat that twisty likes to throw out there b/c in his mind Stafford is better than Rodgers...Statistically. I think it was something ESPN brought up before last season. Like I said, if he's not worth investing in to you I'll buy them up and you can go buy some Stafford's if you want. Twisty knows the only way Stafford's will ever increase is if he can make a strong playoff run, at least win A playoff game that would be a good start.
What’s deceiving about that stat?
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Old 08-17-2018, 03:49 PM   #141
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Aaron Rodgers: 1-36 when trailing by more than 1 point in 4th quarter against teams with a winning record.


So you call that Mr. Clutch?


I may have to put this in my signature...what a great stat
I know stats are skewed and can often be twisted any way one wants to, but this is pretty staggering. Wow.
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Old 08-17-2018, 04:06 PM   #142
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What’s deceiving about that stat?
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I know stats are skewed and can often be twisted any way one wants to, but this is pretty staggering. Wow.
You taking Stafford over Rodgers?
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Old 08-17-2018, 04:22 PM   #143
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You taking Stafford over Rodgers?
When trailing in the 4th? all day....since 2014 Stafford is 20 for 24.....he ranks 15th all-time & Rodgers is tied at 67th...

I do agree he needs a deep playoff run, he can't do it all himself and they couldn't run for 1 yard with 3 tries numerous times. But if he happens to win a SB and most of his stats are already right with Rodgers then what?
Rodgers SB was 8 years ago....his overall career has been better but Stafford is catching and passing him statistically and climbing the record books at record paces.

I never said Stafford was better than Rodgers except in the 4th Qtr when trailing. That's a fact....

Or that Stafford just turned 30 and while missing 19 games in his 1st 2 years is the fastest or only player to reach 30,000 Yrds/3000 Completions/200 TD's or that Stafford is the only QB in history to complete 60% of his passes in every single game in 1 season. All while having no real run game or a D that doesn't rank in the 25-32 in turnovers and sacks. Eli & Ben won 2 SB's what's Rodgers excuse? His team? Even though that's not a consideration for Stafford?

Rodgers was a rookie in 2005 and wasn't thrown to the wolves. He also took a team coming off an NFC Championship came to the SB and has done what since? Except the last playoff run how many losses in the playoffs? Stafford came into the league to an 0-16 team with Calvin. He then missed 19 games the 1st 2 years and then his 1st full season he came out and threw for 5000 yards & 40 TD's but so did Brees and Brady and Rodgers was right there to but not 5000. What has Stafford done since? What has Rodgers done? And since 2014-2015 Stafford has played better. QBR & Wins among others.

I have posted all the vid's and stats to back it all up numerous times.

What if Stafford and the Lions come out with a good running game like people are starting to say now...Kerryon Johnson could be the big steal & sleeper of the draft? Blount is also there. We have seen what Patricia did with the Pat's D when they started out looking horrible and then went on to win a SB. It could just happen one day. And then what? Stafford's stats and a SB win against Rodgers and his SB win...….
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Old 08-17-2018, 09:33 PM   #144
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When trailing in the 4th? all day....since 2014 Stafford is 20 for 24.....he ranks 15th all-time & Rodgers is tied at 67th...

I do agree he needs a deep playoff run, he can't do it all himself and they couldn't run for 1 yard with 3 tries numerous times. But if he happens to win a SB and most of his stats are already right with Rodgers then what?
Rodgers SB was 8 years ago....his overall career has been better but Stafford is catching and passing him statistically and climbing the record books at record paces.

I never said Stafford was better than Rodgers except in the 4th Qtr when trailing. That's a fact....

Or that Stafford just turned 30 and while missing 19 games in his 1st 2 years is the fastest or only player to reach 30,000 Yrds/3000 Completions/200 TD's or that Stafford is the only QB in history to complete 60% of his passes in every single game in 1 season. All while having no real run game or a D that doesn't rank in the 25-32 in turnovers and sacks. Eli & Ben won 2 SB's what's Rodgers excuse? His team? Even though that's not a consideration for Stafford?

Rodgers was a rookie in 2005 and wasn't thrown to the wolves. He also took a team coming off an NFC Championship came to the SB and has done what since? Except the last playoff run how many losses in the playoffs? Stafford came into the league to an 0-16 team with Calvin. He then missed 19 games the 1st 2 years and then his 1st full season he came out and threw for 5000 yards & 40 TD's but so did Brees and Brady and Rodgers was right there to but not 5000. What has Stafford done since? What has Rodgers done? And since 2014-2015 Stafford has played better. QBR & Wins among others.

I have posted all the vid's and stats to back it all up numerous times.

What if Stafford and the Lions come out with a good running game like people are starting to say now...Kerryon Johnson could be the big steal & sleeper of the draft? Blount is also there. We have seen what Patricia did with the Pat's D when they started out looking horrible and then went on to win a SB. It could just happen one day. And then what? Stafford's stats and a SB win against Rodgers and his SB win...….
The issue isn't that Stafford isn't more clutch or accumulates numbers. It's that he and Lions are perennial losers. You can huff and puff all you want, but the hobby doesn't care about QBs that can't get results in the win column.

Edit: It's laughable that you're bringing up any criticism of Rodgers' playoff history in the same breath as Stafford. Rodgers is 9-7 in the playoffs, been to 4 NFC title games, and won a SB.

Stafford has never won a playoff game in his career.

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Old 08-17-2018, 09:39 PM   #145
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The issue isn't that Stafford isn't more clutch or accumulates numbers. It's that he and Lions are perennial losers. You can huff and puff all you want, but the hobby doesn't care about QBs that can't get results in the win column.
And so were the Seahawks and the Buc's and the Saints and the Eagles & more. It has to happen at some point. And if it happens with Stafford then what's the argument?
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Old 08-17-2018, 09:51 PM   #146
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now--thats pretty cool. i was unaware......great pairing.
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Old 08-17-2018, 10:01 PM   #147
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And so were the Seahawks and the Buc's and the Saints and the Eagles & more. It has to happen at some point. And if it happens with Stafford then what's the argument?
I'm not understanding what you're asking. It is happening with Stafford and as a result there's little hobby interest in him.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:25 PM   #148
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You taking Stafford over Rodgers?
What’s the score of the game and how much time is left in the game?
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:29 PM   #149
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I think the problem with guys like Stafford and Ryan is that they have very little public marketability. And they don't really have the dynamic playmaking ability that creates hobby hype like some of these young guys.

The traditional qb is still the pillar of the NFL and winning titles, but after that initial early career surge, it's very difficult for any of the qb's to overcome that peak barring a title or milestone records.

Brees' stuff took what seemed like forever to get to the point where they're at now...but it also took a ring AND basically being the most prolific qb in history.

Where would Brees' stuff currently be if he had the passing title and no ring? I'd wager to guess a lot less.
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Old 08-17-2018, 11:45 PM   #150
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I don't care how many more yards, records he's on pace on, comebacks, etc Stafford has over Rodgers, it isn't even close to how much better Rodgers is than Stafford..Great question for the opening OP, but the fact that this thread has turned into a Rodgers vs Stafford debate is simply embarrassing!!...Aaron debates are with the Brady's of the world and is considered by MANY to be the most talented ever at the QB position..Stafford isn't considered anything at this point!! He's the guy who threw to Megatron, that's it...

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