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View Poll Results: Right now, where do you rank Lebron all time?
GOAT 148 25.87%
#2 211 36.89%
#3 70 12.24%
#4 37 6.47%
#5 30 5.24%
Oustide Top 5 76 13.29%
Voters: 572. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-26-2018, 04:37 PM   #576
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Originally Posted by hofcollector2 View Post
The simple fact that Lebron is going to a game 7 against a team without its 2 stars in the leastern confrence is embarrassing for an all time great. And if he loses then even worse. Lebron is a top player of all time. Will never be #1 in most people's eyes. Once he is done espn and everyone else will go away in the same way Kobe "threatened" Jordan legacy. Lebron is one injury away from being done. It's coming.
What does Boston have to do to get some respect, lmao.
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:39 PM   #577
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What does Boston have to do to get some respect, lmao.
They should get all the respect in the world but they are missing their best player and arguably their second best player. That matters.
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:40 PM   #578
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As someone who is strongly in the Jordan over Lebron camp, I will say I put Lebron easily in the top 2-3 and if I had to place him, I would put him at #2. His play, and Longevity is impressive and his level of physical dominance combined with skill has never been seen before. What I struggle with Lebron is that the rhetoric with him and his teams is constantly changing.

For example, this year illustrates that. In the first series, no one had the Cavs going 7 with the Pacers, then after that, the Cavs were going to get trounced by a Raptors team that had apparently (according to pundits) solved all of their historic playoff woes, despite largely the same "stars" in Derozan/Lowry, same coach, etc. After the sweep, a VAST majority of pundits chose the Cavs to beat the Celtics (19-3 from the "experts" on ESPN). Then after the Celtics play, Lebron is then the underdog. "How is he doing it with THIS team" people say.

People love to use the "Jordan had Pippen" argument. Many say that Jordan's legend has grown to levels that it truly wasn't at the time, but the same seems true for Pippen, as a lot of Lebron supporters make him out to be some selfless superhero just put on Earth to prop up Jordan. To those, I would say, you must not have watched Scottie Pippen in his career. No one ever looks at it from the angle of how impressive it was that Jordan and Pippen made their relationship work for as long as they did. They put winning above all else.

As I said in a previous post, you cannot simply discount Lebron's supporting cast and then ignore that MUCH of the cast (and coaches) around him is through Lebron's own machinations.
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:41 PM   #579
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What does Boston have to do to prove they're a good team?? Lmao. Do you even watch the games? They look much better than the Cavs other than Lebron. I'd take Horford, Tatum, or Brown over Love any day of the week and at this point probably even Morris because of his defense. So not sure what point you're making with Boston. If he beats them, that's a very impressive victory. You're comparing Lebron to ghosts. Going to 7 possibly 8 finals in a row in the NBA is an incredible accomplishment. The fact you guys are trying to make it out like it's easy and something anyone can do, is hilarious!! And sad at the same time.
My point is that lebron stacks the deck and plays in a weak eastern conference.

So no, 7 straight nba finals appearances needs context. It’s not that impressive to me. When you see that their teams over the years would be one of the last seeds in playoffs in west.Context gets lost over time and people just blurt stats. Just like KD winning a championship...yes he did. Not impressed.

And Boston is without two stars. Which would be easier than the team they are playing now. Therefore again, lebron has an easier path to finals. Do you not agree if you add Boston with their two stars would be more challenging?
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:43 PM   #580
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LeBron fans hype up any team he might lose to. That way he either beats a great team or loses to a great team. Someone called Houston an all time great team and they haven't won anything yet.

All playoffs Kevin love is called trash. Now LeBron has to win without the great Kevin love

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Old 05-26-2018, 04:46 PM   #581
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My point is that lebron stacks the deck and plays in a weak eastern conference.

So no, 7 straight nba finals appearances needs context. Itís not that impressive to me. When you see that their teams over the years would be one of the last seeds in playoffs in west.Context gets lost over time and people just blurt stats. Just like KD winning a championship...yes he did. Not impressed.

And Boston is without two stars. Which would be easier than the team they are playing now. Therefore again, lebron has an easier path to finals. Do you not agree if you add Boston with their two stars would be more challenging?
What superstar on any of these GOAT lists didn't have a stacked deck? Like I said, you guys compare him against ghosts. Set him to standards no other player in the history of the game has met. Aka. GOAT.
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:51 PM   #582
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Lebron jumps from teams to stack the deck. The reason why he left Cleveland.

Remember the time Jordan, Kobe, Magic, bird left their team to join all stars?

These are the standards we are comparing him to.

There is just greater respect because It is much harder to do it the way they did it.
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:53 PM   #583
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Lebron jumps from teams to stack the deck. The reason why he left Cleveland.

Remember the time Jordan, Kobe, Magic, bird left their team to join all stars?

These are the standards we are comparing him to.

There is just greater respect because It is much harder to do it the way they did it.
They were already on stacked teams or their teams became stacked with other stars coming over. Lebron left Boobie Gibson, Sideshow Bob and Delonte West.
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:55 PM   #584
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What superstar on any of these GOAT lists didn't have a stacked deck? Like I said, you guys compare him against ghosts. Set him to standards no other player in the history of the game has met. Aka. GOAT.
No other legend that I can think of has had easier teams to beat to get to the finals in the history of the game. Bostons a good team, not great, not legendary, just a good team and without its 2 stars (not Lebrons fault by the way). He is beating who is infront of him, that's all he can do. But when you start to compare Lebron against the GOAT, everything gets compared and counts. When Jordan played, he played against some of the greatest players ever, some of the greatest teams ever just to get to the Finals. Lebron can never say that.
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:56 PM   #585
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They were already on stacked teams or their teams became stacked with other stars coming over. Lebron left Boobie Gibson, Sideshow Bob and Delonte West.
Also he left Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh after the Spurs spanked him 4-1

The all time dynasty Spurs with an old big 3, a young Kawhi, and Boris and Tiago and Danny Green
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:57 PM   #586
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No other legend that I can think of has had easier teams to beat to get to the finals in the history of the game. Bostons a good team, not great, not legendary, just a good team and without its 2 stars (not Lebrons fault by the way). He is beating who is infront of him, that's all he can do. But when you start to compare Lebron against the GOAT, everything gets compared and counts. When Jordan played, he played against some of the greatest players ever, some of the greatest teams ever just to get to the Finals. Lebron can never say that.
The Spurs and Warriors were two tougher teams than MJ ever had to beat in the Finals.
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:59 PM   #587
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What superstar on any of these GOAT lists didn't have a stacked deck? Like I said, you guys compare him against ghosts. Set him to standards no other player in the history of the game has met. Aka. GOAT.
None of them. So letís look at what they accomplished with those ďStacked decksĒ then. In my opinion, it pales in comparison to several of these other all time greats. Couple it with his longevity and stats and he belongs in the top 5-10 conversation, higher if you like. I just disagree that he is so clearly number one based on his body of work. For me personally, standards of evaluation are the same.
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Old 05-26-2018, 05:00 PM   #588
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the only thing that’s never been explained to me is how it’s a team game vs the West when he’s equaled in talent but when he’s superior in talent vs the East it’s all his greatness

Lebron
Kyrie
Love
Tristan

Shouldn’t get just annihilated by

KD
Steph
Klay
Draymond

That’s not a 4-1 mismatch on paper when you have the GOAT

This otherworldly Golden State Team was getting crushed by the Spurs and now Houston has them on the ropes. Lebron got 1 from them.

18-27 in the Finals against the good teams can’t be ignored.
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Old 05-26-2018, 05:01 PM   #589
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When Jordan played, he played against some of the greatest players ever, some of the greatest teams ever just to get to the Finals. Lebron can never say that.
I don't even know where to start when listing all those great teams and players
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Old 05-26-2018, 05:06 PM   #590
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They were already on stacked teams or their teams became stacked with other stars coming over. Lebron left Boobie Gibson, Sideshow Bob and Delonte West.

It takes time to develop winning strategy, mentality, culture, work ethic.

What lebron is doing is causing other people to do the same thing as a response. Hence Kevin Durant. So you respect Kevin Durantís championship? While super weak itís in the same category as lebrons

Lebrons championships before jumping teams =0. Again just unfair to compare lebrons deck stacking to the pure greats from before who didnít get a chance to jump ship whenever they felt like it. That wasnít how the game was played. Game was in a better state that way in my opinion.

Iíve presented multiple pieces of evidence that you canít seem to understand and ur responses are hypotheticals. So ur entitled to ur opinion.

Have fun watching the games.
Still entertaining.
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Old 05-26-2018, 05:13 PM   #591
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It takes time to develop winning strategy, mentality, culture, work ethic.

What lebron is doing is causing other people to do the same thing as a response. Hence Kevin Durant. So you respect Kevin Durant’s championship? While super weak it’s in the same category as lebrons

Lebrons championships before jumping teams =0. Again just unfair to compare lebrons deck stacking to the pure greats from before who didn’t get a chance to jump ship whenever they felt like it. That wasn’t how the game was played. Game was in a better state that way in my opinion.

I’ve presented multiple pieces of evidence that you can’t seem to understand and ur responses are hypotheticals. So ur entitled to ur opinion.

Have fun watching the games.
Still entertaining.
You think you've provided evidence. But you haven't. The team stacking argument is ridiculous. Anyone arguing that Lebron has been on "stacked" teams to win is obviously oblivious to history. He might have been on 1 team that will go down in the top 20 of all time and he's been an underdog in almost every Finals he's been in.
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Old 05-26-2018, 05:22 PM   #592
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It’s not an argument. Lebron left Cleveland to play with two stars. Then went back to Cleveland to play with two more stars.

And in 2015 during his great consecutive finals appearances there were only 7 50 + won teams he beat?

Jordan had 20 and lebron has already played more playoff series than Jordan. Which part of anything that I said was not factual?


So I’m signing off. I’ll let others reply going forward
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Old 05-26-2018, 05:26 PM   #593
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And in 2015 during his great consecutive finals appearances there were only 7 50 + won teams he beat?

Jordan had 20 and lebron has already played more playoff series than Jordan. Which part of anything that I said was not factual?
All it means is that talent is more evenly spread from 1-30...it is not really a measurement of how good teams are.
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Old 05-26-2018, 05:37 PM   #594
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Yet in the terrible eastern conference, couldn't even make the playoffs. Hmmmmm... something doesn't add up.
LeBron couldn't even make the playoffs his 1st 2 years in Cleveland. By your logic, LeBron sucks too.
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Old 05-26-2018, 05:49 PM   #595
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I don't even know where to start when listing all those great teams and players
I will do it for you. Magic Johnson, James Worthy, Clyde Drexler, Charles Barkley, Gary Payton, Karl Malone, John Stockton. Jordan was going up against 1 or 2 top 50 players every time.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:28 PM   #596
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the only thing thatís never been explained to me is how itís a team game vs the West when heís equaled in talent but when heís superior in talent vs the East itís all his greatness

Lebron pick 1
Kyrie pick 1
Love pick 5
Tristan pick 4

Shouldnít get just annihilated by

KD
Steph
Klay
Draymond

Thatís not a 4-1 mismatch on paper when you have the GOAT

This otherworldly Golden State Team was getting crushed by the Spurs and now Houston has them on the ropes. Lebron got 1 from them.

18-27 in the Finals against the good teams canít be ignored.
People love to gloss over the talent Lebron has.

I've never seen so many "fans" put down the other players around a guy to build up their star.

Have never seen the Spurs whine about the talent around Tim Duncan, even when we were getting spanked by the Jazz 4-0 or the Lakers 4-0.

I always love how that pgisbck dude brings up the Spurs win for LeBron as this all time achievement, ha ha, that team was so old and a prime LeBron with a stacked team snuck in by a Ray Ray 3. Then we destroyed them the next year.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:33 PM   #597
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People love to gloss over the talent Lebron has.

I've never seen so many "fans" put down the other players around a guy to build up their star.

Have never seen the Spurs whine about the talent around Tim Duncan, even when we were getting spanked by the Jazz 4-0 or the Lakers 4-0.

I always love how that pgisbck dude brings up the Spurs win for LeBron as this all time achievement, ha ha, that team was so old and a prime LeBron with a stacked team snuck in by a Ray Ray 3. Then we destroyed them the next year.
Are you really calling the Kawhi Leonard, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli, Tim Duncan, Danny Green 2012 Spurs team "too old". Good lord, your lack of respect for history is incredible all for your hatred of Lebron and 90s fanboy emotions. 3 guaranteed hall of famers and potentially 4... "too old" and less stacked than Lebrons team??, lmao.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:42 PM   #598
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Are you really calling the Kawhi Leonard, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobli, Tim Duncan, Danny Green 2012 Spurs team "too old". Good lord, your lack of respect for history is incredible all for your hatred of Lebron and 90s fanboy emotions. 3 guaranteed hall of famers and potentially 4... "too old" and less stacked than Lebrons team??, lmao.
People were calling that team old 4-5 years before that title.

You really have no idea don't you?

Parker 30
Manu 34
TD 36

Those guys were old. And it was beautiful to watch them and a fat Boris Diaw work LeBron over the next year.

Kawhi was a child in 2012, what a shame, because he was too young the year we lost 4-3 and we lost S. Jackson through the season because of attitude, could have maybe gone back to back chips vs LeBron. Ha ha. And those weren't even the best Spurs teams.

Are you really calling these guys young? HA HA HA
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:46 PM   #599
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People were calling that team old 4-5 years before that title.

You really have no idea don't you?

Parker 30
Manu 34
TD 36

Those guys were old. And it was beautiful to watch them and a fat Boris Diaw work LeBron over the next year.

Are you really calling these guys young? HA HA HA
30 is not old and I like how you forget to mention Kawhi Leonard, lol. The Finals MVP the year after. Your hatred for Lebron is making you mock the 2012 Spurs team. That's sad bro. I thought you had more respect than that. That was an all time great lineup.
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:47 PM   #600
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pgisback keeps flipping.

So I now have a lack of respect for history? But I'm stuck in the 90s fanboy group also. No idea how I can be both. Especially when the 00s is my favourite time in the NBA.

Ha ha. It's hilarious watching you say stupid thing after stupid thing.
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