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Old 12-08-2017, 02:55 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Devi8or View Post
what do you not like about the Dee Gordon trade? I still like it. They're taking on the salary of a 2x All Star and moving his position, but they really didn't give up much in return. They may have been some higher ups in our system, but our system is garbage anyways
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They gave up peanuts for him. It was a win.
I don’t like this trade now for many reasons. I understand you are trading “unproven talent” for “talent”, however, we gave up PITCHING prospects for him AND international $$. I’m guessing the money was because we needed to try and sway him from the Angels.

Our already weak farm system just got worse. Our future pitching, which everyone agrees is the biggest “problem” on our roster, just got worse. I honestly believe if Ohtani had announced this yesterday, the Mariners would not have made the trade to get Dee.

I just don’t like it. I could be way wrong, but I’m tired of trading away any “big name” prospect we have all the damn time.
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:56 PM   #77
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Well one, Ohtani's main calling card IS a pitcher. And you wouldn't bench someone that hit .211 to at least give someone else a chance?

Agreed with the other poster, absolutely every fan should have wanted Ohtani on their team. He's the biggest lottery ticket at the lowest price we will probably ever see in our lifetimes
A few things I'd ask here. Why even entertain him DH'ing if he's just a pitcher?It has to be that you feel his ability to hit is legitimate at the big league level. Schwarber had what I'm going to assume is his "floor" season in terms of AVG/ K's/ OBP and still platooned 30 HRs at the age of 24. You also have other internal options to replace Schwarber if you don't like him in that spot anymore.

I agree that the lottery ticket analogy is perfect. If it pans out, what a steal.
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:56 PM   #78
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You didn't trade away anything close to a big name prospect

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I don’t like this trade now for many reasons. I understand you are trading “unproven talent” for “talent”, however, we gave up PITCHING prospects for him AND international $$. I’m guessing the money was because we needed to try and sway him from the Angels.

Our already weak farm system just got worse. Our future pitching, which everyone agrees is the biggest “problem” on our roster, just got worse. I honestly believe if Ohtani had announced this yesterday, the Mariners would not have made the trade to get Dee.

I just don’t like it. I could be way wrong, but I’m tired of trading away any “big name” prospect we have all the damn time.
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:57 PM   #79
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Biggest American star
Biggest Japanese star

Good for the Angels
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:58 PM   #80
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Biggest American star
Biggest Japanese star

Good for the Angels
And then nothing
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:59 PM   #81
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We can officially cease speculating between Vladdy and Acuna for #1 on the top 100 lists now.

(except for KLaw, who uses different criteria and won't have him qualify)
Where was Tanaka both overall and Yankees top 10 when he came over? Do you remember?
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:01 PM   #82
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You didn't trade away anything close to a big name prospect
He was the Mariners #2 prospect. He was big name to us, even if he barely broke the Top 100 nationally.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:01 PM   #83
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:02 PM   #84
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Where was Tanaka both overall and Yankees top 10 when he came over? Do you remember?
If I recall correctly, he was #1 on the top 100, but the Yanks' list had already come out before he'd signed.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:02 PM   #85
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Nope, I didn't.
You did b/c he's in the discussion for top prospect right now with Acuna
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:02 PM   #86
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Coincidentally, Pujols signed with the Angels six years ago today.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:02 PM   #87
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My main point was the lottery ticket point. Nobody in the league has the combination of his upside with such an incredibly low financial commitment. But my side point is I would absolutely give Ohtani a chance to take over for Schwarber in the OF. People are too emotional on Schwarbs. Yes, he was huge in the postseason a few years ago, but that's really it. 2015 regular season he hit under .250 with 16 HR in 69 games. That's fine. But last year was a train wreck. Yeah he hit 30 HR, congrats. He hit .211! And he's absolute trash in the outfield. I don't care if you hit 40 HR, you're a big liability if you only hit .211 and play poor defense- BR's WAR would agree, he totaled 0.0 last year. Why would you automatically give that stat line the job without considering any alternatives?

Last thing- People are forgetting about this thing called spring training- You have some time to see if Ohtani is going to look competent at the plate before you have to make a decision who gets the time in that slot. To not even consider giving him a chance, if the Cubs had gotten him, his absolutely ridiculous. All that said, the Cubs didn't get him, so everything I just said is a moot point

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A few things I'd ask here. Why even entertain him DH'ing if he's just a pitcher?It has to be that you feel his ability to hit is legitimate at the big league level. Schwarber had what I'm going to assume is his "floor" season in terms of AVG/ K's/ OBP and still platooned 30 HRs at the age of 24. You also have other internal options to replace Schwarber if you don't like him in that spot anymore.

I agree that the lottery ticket analogy is perfect. If it pans out, what a steal.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:03 PM   #88
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You did b/c he's in the discussion for top prospect right now with Acuna
He may have been discussed, but there was virtually no chance with his TJ.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:03 PM   #89
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If your number 2 prospect barely breaks the top 100 and you have more aging stars (Cano, Cruz, etc) than up and coming stars (Haniger?, etc), you're already in a bad spot

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He was the Mariners #2 prospect. He was big name to us, even if he barely broke the Top 100 nationally.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:04 PM   #90
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He may have been discussed, but there was virtually no chance with his TJ.
I mean for the top 100 prospects for next year, he's in the discussion for top overall prospect. He's not a pitcher so the TJ surgery has zero effect on his status
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:05 PM   #91
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I mean for the top 100 prospects for next year, he's in the discussion for top overall prospect. He's not a pitcher so the TJ surgery has zero effect on his status
So do I, and I disagree with your last sentence.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:07 PM   #92
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I agree with the one post - Yu Darvish will sign with the Angels now.
I heard an interesting take on the MLB Network that Ohtani may not want to sign where Darvish does. Their thought was he would sort have to be deferential to Darvish since he would be Ohtani's elder or however you want to phrase. Don't know if that holds water in this day and age but I could see it making sense.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:08 PM   #93
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Stupid question. Are Angels going to send Ohtani to minors to adjust or is he just going to start with the big club no matter how good or bad his ST goes?
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:08 PM   #94
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So do I, and I disagree with your last sentence.
TJ surgery has proven to have zero effect on position players. It's not his throwing arm either
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:09 PM   #95
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Biggest American star
Biggest Japanese star

Good for the Angels
It's great news, hotter than the fires in L.A.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:09 PM   #96
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That doesn't matter so much anymore. Ohtani is signed, nothing he can do if the Angels were to sign Darvish now

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I heard an interesting take on the MLB Network that Ohtani may not want to sign where Darvish does. Their thought was he would sort have to be deferential to Darvish since he would be Ohtani's elder or however you want to phrase. Don't know if that holds water in this day and age but I could see it making sense.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:09 PM   #97
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Stupid question. Are Angels going to send Ohtani to minors to adjust or is he just going to start with the big club no matter how good or bad his ST goes?
He's been said to be Major League ready. If he struggles, Salt Lake's ticket sales will improve dramatically.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:11 PM   #98
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My main point was the lottery ticket point. Nobody in the league has the combination of his upside with such an incredibly low financial commitment. But my side point is I would absolutely give Ohtani a chance to take over for Schwarber in the OF. People are too emotional on Schwarbs. Yes, he was huge in the postseason a few years ago, but that's really it. 2015 regular season he hit under .250 with 16 HR in 69 games. That's fine. But last year was a train wreck. Yeah he hit 30 HR, congrats. He hit .211! And he's absolute trash in the outfield. I don't care if you hit 40 HR, you're a big liability if you only hit .211 and play poor defense- BR's WAR would agree, he totaled 0.0 last year. Why would you automatically give that stat line the job without considering any alternatives?

Last thing- People are forgetting about this thing called spring training- You have some time to see if Ohtani is going to look competent at the plate before you have to make a decision who gets the time in that slot. To not even consider giving him a chance, if the Cubs had gotten him, his absolutely ridiculous. All that said, the Cubs didn't get him, so everything I just said is a moot point

The good news for Schwarber fans is he did hit .260 for the 2nd half of the 17 season
I see him being a consistent 35-40 HR/. 250 guy who plays below average D for the foreseeable future
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:12 PM   #99
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Not a surprise at all, he wants to build his own legacy.
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:16 PM   #100
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Will Otani be in 2018 bowman?
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