MJ 98-99 PMG #/50

[nissandriver77]

Originally Posted by Hegotgame15

Well why don't you and Mr SMH get a room and leave us in the market out of your thoughts

Ummm ok again your butt hurt over your god and idol MJ, sorry but facts are the most crap in this hobby and the most scums are related to your God MJ , sorry if the truth hurts .

To be honest I have no sympathy for guys like you getting ripped off , who knows maybe half your precious MJ insert collection might just be bogus as well who knows .

And no I will not just turn a blind eye I will always stand up with others against the disease in this hobby including your beloved market.

And for your info if you think it is ok to pass off uncut sheet inserts personally cut as pack inserted cards then you my friend have rocks in your head .

[mcgahee21nfl]

Originally Posted by Pejarox7620

He must have quite a bit of uncut sheets looking at his completed. I thought he was a trust worthy guy and a straight shooter but thats far from the truth.

OP once sold me a card that had a corner that was colored with marker. He wouldn't offer a refund either.

[Hegotgame15]

Originally Posted by nissandriver77

Ummm ok again your butt hurt over your god and idol MJ, sorry but facts are the most crap in this hobby and the most scums are related to your God MJ , sorry if the truth hurts .

To be honest I have no sympathy for guys like you getting ripped off , who knows maybe half your precious MJ insert collection might just be bogus as well who knows .

And no I will not just turn a blind eye I will always stand up with others against the disease in this hobby including your beloved market.

And for your info if you think it is ok to pass off uncut sheet inserts personally cut as pack inserted cards then you my friend have rocks in your head .

Ummm ok again your butt hurt over your god and idol MJ, sorry but facts are the most crap in this hobby and the most scums are related to your God MJ , sorry if the truth hurts .

I don't believe in god, so i couldn't think MJ is a god.
Fact is MJ has the biggest market so its always going to have the most amount of scammers, simple math really.

To be honest I have no sympathy for guys like you getting ripped off , who knows maybe half your precious MJ insert collection might just be bogus as well who knows .

I don't need any sympathy from anyone thanks, don't assume you know exactly what i have because i can tell you, you have no idea, My 90's collection is my favourite but its only 1/3 of what i have.
Who knows maybe half the cards you own are bogus.

And no I will not just turn a blind eye I will always stand up with others against the disease in this hobby including your beloved market.

I'm not asking you to turn a blind eye at all, in fact its your blinded hatred that i have an issue with, if you have an actually proven FACT to state i would listen, but you don't you just jump on board with Mr SMH and start on the ENTIRE MJ market and label EVERYONE IN IT THE SAME

And for your info if you think it is ok to pass off uncut sheet inserts personally cut as pack inserted cards then you my friend have rocks in your head .
Not once have i said it was OK, go back and re-read.

[leeex1]

Don't really want to get into this, but bottom line, if the Op knew it was from a uncut sheet when listing on eBay or trying to sell in general, the fact that it was from an uncut sheet should of been disclosed.

Yeah you can say you would've disclosed it if someone asked, but it's something you should just disclose without someone asking. It's things like this that are ruining the hobby imo.

[nissandriver77]

I don't believe in god, so i couldn't think MJ is a god.
Fact is MJ has the biggest market so its always going to have the most amount of scammers, simple math really.

Wow if you never stated that I would never have known lol


I don't need any sympathy from anyone thanks, don't assume you know exactly what i have because i can tell you, you have no idea, My 90's collection is my favourite but its only 1/3 of what i have.
Who knows maybe half the cards you own are bogus.

I could give a rats what you have .


I'm not asking you to turn a blind eye at all, in fact its your blinded hatred that i have an issue with, if you have an actually proven FACT to state i would listen, but you don't you just jump on board with Mr SMH and start on the ENTIRE MJ market and label EVERYONE IN IT THE SAME

Facts would slap your face off and you still would twist to make your point, so facts are mute to you and quite frankly waste of time debating with you when it comes to your boy MJ .

And show me rubenstein where I Have labeled all collectors of MJ as scammers ?
Don't tell me your drinking your mushroom juice again.


Not once have i said it was OK, go back and re-read.

And not once have you stated it's wrong when clearly it is , every time your boy is brought up you get butt hurt FACT.

Kind regards

[Hegotgame15]

Originally Posted by nissandriver77

And not once have you stated it's wrong when clearly it is , every time your boy is brought up you get butt hurt FACT.

Kind regards

I get butt hurt FACT?

Yes you got me, i often get butt hurt FACT.

I don't particularly care what you think, but English might help.

Look, this is my only problem....
I can't stand people jumping in and saying the whole MJ market is completely made up of shady people, it gets annoying and makes us real and honest collectors look bad because we are constantly having to defend ourselves...

The conspiracy theorists on this board have a field day regardless of actual FACT, its all seems to be ok to just suggest they know what's going on in each and every collector's mind and no matter what someone does to defend themselves it's never enough...


I'm a MJ collector because i grow up watching him play and always wanted to put a big collection together like i had when i was a kid...

I don't need to defend who i choose to collect because you don't like him, i couldn't care less who you collect...

Anyway, these topics never stay on course because of people trying to add things like "this is what's wrong in the hobby"

Well maybe those people would enjoy the hobby if they actually participated in the hobby and not just sit on a forum all day b!itching about it FFS!

[SPauthentic84]

Originally Posted by spinotron

Basically first 1/4 is about this MJ PMG /50 used to be cheap and shilling etc and valuation of it based on a badly shill joke of Jordan red and damaged surface PMG /50.

The rest is concerned with OP, sheetcut Jambalaya, and got it graded as legit, and then did not actively disclose in selling description. But OP openly admits in this thread that it's a sheet cut, and he spent $$ to ensure it was cut exactly like Fleer did it, so no difference to real one in his mind. And he tried to max out profits for his kids' education fund, so for good reason.

People discussesd about whether OP's practice is ethical, how to draw the line. It's basically lope-sided discussion, and almost everyone agrees that OP should disclose it. And several people including me think OP killed the Jambalaya brand. OP also engaged in responding various questions. Discussions have been civil so far, no name calling. Hopefully this thread stays, as future buyers really should see this.

Since it's the very first time card doctor steps forth to be had a conversation with. It's kind of unique and insightful to see what the hobby has become.

I called OP a "turd"

Spino-you have done an awesome job of thoughtfully describing why OP is harming the hobby. I really respect the way you have used reasoning, facts and common sense to support the case.

[nissandriver77]

Originally Posted by Hegotgame15

I get butt hurt FACT?

Yes you got me, i often get butt hurt FACT.

I don't particularly care what you think, but English might help.

Look, this is my only problem....
I can't stand people jumping in and saying the whole MJ market is completely made up of shady people, it gets annoying and makes us real and honest collectors look bad because we are constantly having to defend ourselves...

The conspiracy theorists on this board have a field day regardless of actual FACT, its all seems to be ok to just suggest they know what's going on in each and every collector's mind and no matter what someone does to defend themselves it's never enough...


I'm a MJ collector because i grow up watching him play and always wanted to put a big collection together like i had when i was a kid...

I don't need to defend who i choose to collect because you don't like him, i couldn't care less who you collect...

Anyway, these topics never stay on course because of people trying to add things like "this is what's wrong in the hobby"

Well maybe those people would enjoy the hobby if they actually participated in the hobby and not just sit on a forum all day b!itching about it FFS!

Nobody cares who collects who , but as we all see the greedy scammers are getting worse , the hobby is turning more into a investors/scammers paradise and quite frankly a lot of collectors are sick if seeing a hobby we love be destroyed by stooges like the op looking to make money only with any means possible.

Can you not comprehend that ,is it to hard for you to understand?

And we all participate I guess you don't know my phandle on ozcard traders I just posted a mail day there , I only deal there and ebay and dascardboard , i used to on hobby kings, and on here with select few as a lot members here are just rude and to scared to deal with internationals which is there loss and I don't care as I deal with certain high end Cp3 collectors ,not to mention there to many scams on here so no point wasting my time .

The op derailed/hung himself on this thread so where you coming from I don't know?

I'm am on an iPhone so typing is not easy creating grammar errors.

[Kenflin]

This is what I don't understand. Why has so many people continued to attack the op? If you don't like what he did, keep it in the back of your mind and move on. You are not going to change his mind and he's not going to change yours.

I can't seem to figure out the purpose of continuing to go back and fourth. It seems like even if the op called himself a dirtbag it still wouldn't be enough, lol. Everyone seems to take this stuff waaaay to personal.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's good to point out noticeable issues, but to continue to go back and fourth seems pointless. The cool part of collecting is that every individual collects what they feel is cool (not others opinions). Would I prefer that the op state where his card came from? Of course, but now I'm aware so I know that if I had interest then it might change. The difference is that you will not see me continue to attack and go on and on because of something like this.

The pmg is a very nice card by the way. Congrats

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by Kenflin

This is what I don't understand. Why has so many people continued to attack the op? If you don't like what he did, keep it in the back of your mind and move on. You are not going to change his mind and he's not going to change yours.

I can't seem to figure out the purpose of continuing to go back and fourth. It seems like even if the op called himself a dirtbag it still wouldn't be enough, lol. Everyone seems to take this stuff waaaay to personal.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's good to point out noticeable issues, but to continue to go back and fourth seems pointless. The cool part of collecting is that every individual collects what they feel is cool (not others opinions). Would I prefer that the op state where his card came from? Of course, but now I'm aware so I know that if I had interest then it might change. The difference is that you will not see me continue to attack and go on and on because of something like this.

The pmg is a very nice card by the way. Congrats

So you believe that turning a blind eye to crimes that deteriorate the hobby when it comes to ethics is the solution?

That we should point out wrong doings but dont pursue actions? Is that your solution? If thats the case, then you are more of a problem to the hobby than the guy who commits the unethical behaviour.

"So he cut up sheets and sold them without any disclosure, who cares!!" Imagine a world where accountability was ignored!! Ohhh wait Ive got a great example of a current situation where turning a blind eye to a problem and not doing anything about it has led to the demise of society... The rape cases in India. A society that turned a blind eye and chose not to take it seriously when women get raped. Look at it now. That is a prime example of what you suggest..

Don't get me wrong, I think it's good to point out noticeable issues, but to continue to go back and fourth seems pointless.

[nissandriver77]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

So you believe that turning a blind eye to crimes that deteriorate the hobby when it comes to ethics is the solution?

That we should point out wrong doings but dont pursue actions? Is that your solution? If thats the case, then you are more of a problem to the hobby than the guy who commits the unethical behaviour.

"So he cut up sheets and sold them without any disclosure, who cares!!" Imagine a world where accountability was ignored!! Ohhh wait Ive got a great example of a current situation where turning a blind eye to a problem and not doing anything about it has led to the demise of society... The rape cases in India. A society that turned a blind eye and chose not to take it seriously when women get raped. Look at it now. That is a prime example of what you suggest..

Could not have said it better myself.

[hychang5]

I was going to wait until I could get to an actual keyboard to post, but I have to respond to this. This is not at simple as you put it, what OP has done has not just made HIS card questionable. He has effectively made Jambalaya insert of EVERYONE questionable now. We can't say, ok, it's known, now move on.

Originally Posted by Kenflin

This is what I don't understand. Why has so many people continued to attack the op? If you don't like what he did, keep it in the back of your mind and move on. You are not going to change his mind and he's not going to change yours.

I can't seem to figure out the purpose of continuing to go back and fourth. It seems like even if the op called himself a dirtbag it still wouldn't be enough, lol. Everyone seems to take this stuff waaaay to personal.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's good to point out noticeable issues, but to continue to go back and fourth seems pointless. The cool part of collecting is that every individual collects what they feel is cool (not others opinions). Would I prefer that the op state where his card came from? Of course, but now I'm aware so I know that if I had interest then it might change. The difference is that you will not see me continue to attack and go on and on because of something like this.

The pmg is a very nice card by the way. Congrats

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by nissandriver77

Could not have said it better myself.

I honestly dont know who is worse... Someone who commits a crime or someone who watches a crime commited and does nothing about it or to stop it.

[crackberry]

cutting uncut sheets and selling it as pack insert cards is wrong - no ifs or buts.

if you don't condemn this practice then this is the wrong hobby for you. that or you're trying to justify you own collection's "worth". the legitimacy of these inserts will be forever questioned and only the fools will pay excessively for these.

a non-direct but similar example is the 08-09 topps photoshoot autos. as soon as the blank cards hit the market the value plummeted!!!

no offense but college is probably the last thing your kid/s needs if this is the way they are funded

[Sikkcaden]

Breezed through the past few pages, but it is my understanding that a lot of counterfeit clothing items in China are made at the SAME factory by the SAME employees (after hours). It's the same process, same everything but sold for cheaper. I feel as thought this loosely relates to this. It is a Jambalaya. It's the same exact thing. However, it's not the authorized version so it should sell for cheaper.

[xavieronly1]

Originally Posted by crackberry

cutting uncut sheets and selling it as pack insert cards is wrong - no ifs or buts.

if you don't condemn this practice then this is the wrong hobby for you. that or you're trying to justify you own collection's "worth". the legitimacy of these inserts will be forever questioned and only the fools will pay excessively for these.

a non-direct but similar example is the 08-09 topps photoshoot autos. as soon as the blank cards hit the market the value plummeted!!!

no offense but college is probably the last thing your kid/s needs if this is the way they are funded

I actually think college is very important for his kids, so that they can find a way to get away from him.

[Kenflin]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

So you believe that turning a blind eye to crimes that deteriorate the hobby when it comes to ethics is the solution?

That we should point out wrong doings but dont pursue actions? Is that your solution? If thats the case, then you are more of a problem to the hobby than the guy who commits the unethical behaviour.

"So he cut up sheets and sold them without any disclosure, who cares!!" Imagine a world where accountability was ignored!! Ohhh wait Ive got a great example of a current situation where turning a blind eye to a problem and not doing anything about it has led to the demise of society... The rape cases in India. A society that turned a blind eye and chose not to take it seriously when women get raped. Look at it now. That is a prime example of what you suggest..

Woah. You can't realistically compare rape to cardboard pictures of men can you? Rape is a societal issue. Card collecting was meant for children. It seems as though you missed the whole point of my post. I have no idea how you gathered that I suggested that you turn a blind eye to the situation. Once you've stated your issue, why is so important for you to go back and fourth?

Originally Posted by hychang5

I was going to wait until I could get to an actual keyboard to post, but I have to respond to this. This is not at simple as you put it, what OP has done has not just made HIS card questionable. He has effectively made Jambalaya insert of EVERYONE questionable now. We can't say, ok, it's known, now move on.

I understand where you are coming from but not being able to move on is a personal issue. Things are only as difficult as the individual wants them to be.

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

I honestly dont know who is worse... Someone who commits a crime or someone who watches a crime commited and does nothing about it or to stop it.

This will be my last comment on this situation. No one wants you to stand by and say nothing. Once it's said move on. It's up to the op if he wishes to disclose more information about his personal items. Yes I agree that it would be very informative to collectors worldwide, but if the op chooses to leave the listing as is, then what can you honestly do? Their isn't a sports card police out there, lol.

You may consider it a crime, the op may not. I'm not here to argue whether that is true or not. The bottom line is everyone has seen the comments posted already, so why put in so much volunteer work to never reach a conclusion. This is what wives do, not men. I would figure that most of you would have something besides card collecting going on in your lives than arguing points that will never get resolved.

On that note I will move on to something else besides this thread. I hope everyone will have a blessed weekend.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by Sikkcaden

Breezed through the past few pages, but it is my understanding that a lot of counterfeit clothing items in China are made at the SAME factory by the SAME employees (after hours). It's the same process, same everything but sold for cheaper. I feel as thought this loosely relates to this. It is a Jambalaya. It's the same exact thing. However, it's not the authorized version so it should sell for cheaper.

I recently did a case study on this issue. Actually it was for my wife who is currently taking part time courses for her designation. One of the people that speaks out about this is the CEO of H&M Clothing. After some indepth study and some decent facts, most of this is not true. Its actually more misleading than not true.

The H&M CEO reiterated his sentiments as he was put under the spotlight for using other manufacturers fabric. He basically cleared up the point that his garments are made in the same factories that also produce other high end garments like Gucci and Louis V. It was to clear the issue that sometimes garment companies like Louis V leave excess materials post production run in which these sweat shops use to make extras, thereby selling them on the black market. Essentially they are Louis V material just with no marketing behind it sold by a certified dealer. Then those companies came back and verified that they DO NOT leave excess material behind for any extra production. They needed to make this clear to strengthen their brand awareness and integrity.

You can use the same factories, same people. But quality is not found in those who work to put something together in these cases. Its found in the brand recognition and confidence/trust in the reputation of the company itself.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by Kenflin

Woah. You can't realistically compare rape to cardboard pictures of men can you? Rape is a societal issue. Card collecting was meant for children. It seems as though you missed the whole point of my post. I have no idea how you gathered that I suggested that you turn a blind eye to the situation. Once you've stated your issue, why is so important for you to go back and fourth?



I understand where you are coming from but not being able to move on is a personal issue. Things are only as difficult as the individual wants them to be.



This will be my last comment on this situation. No one wants you to stand by and say nothing. Once it's said move on. It's up to the op if he wishes to disclose more information about his personal items. Yes I agree that it would be very informative to collectors worldwide, but if the op chooses to leave the listing as is, then what can you honestly do? Their isn't a sports card police out there, lol.

You may consider it a crime, the op may not. I'm not here to argue whether that is true or not. The bottom line is everyone has seen the comments posted already, so why put in so much volunteer work to never reach a conclusion. This is what wives do, not men. I would figure that most of you would have something besides card collecting going on in your lives than arguing points that will never get resolved.

On that note I will move on to something else besides this thread. I hope everyone will have a blessed weekend.

People like you need to be taken for a ride in order for the lesson to be learned. THe comment of noting it and moving on does nothing to help society better itself. Your suggestion that we just note it and move along as if it never happend is the reason why people tend to break laws, commit crimes and unethical behaviour.

On this note, you will move on to something else beside this thread... By doing so, have you made a difference in stoping the wrong? Or did you just notice it, do nothing and let it keep going on knowing full well its wrong and you could have done something about it?

When someone wrongs you, do you usually move on as well? or just move on when it doesnt impact you directly?

[xavieronly1]

Originally Posted by Kenflin

Woah. You can't realistically compare rape to cardboard pictures of men can you? Rape is a societal issue. Card collecting was meant for children. It seems as though you missed the whole point of my post. I have no idea how you gathered that I suggested that you turn a blind eye to the situation. Once you've stated your issue, why is so important for you to go back and fourth?

I don't know what dungeon you live in, but $2000 card is not meant for children collection. It is meant for children education..

And besides, thread like this does not need to have conclusion. It will just lead to new discovery. Perhaps, someone will even post more stuff about OP on his business practice.

[LincecumPC]

Extremely disappointing thread. The motivation by the OP is to maximize his revenue on his cards, and he knew the best way to do that for this particular card is to not disclose the full facts of the origination of the card. If you think that is a moral selling practice, you are delusional.

Obviously trying to save money for your kids' education is a great thing. But that doesn't mean you should resort to questionable selling practices.

[nissandriver77]

Originally Posted by mcgahee21nfl

OP once sold me a card that had a corner that was colored with marker. He wouldn't offer a refund either.

Wow the OP seems to be a piece of work .

[asujbl]

If I buy a new car - take the whole thing apart - and pay a body shop to put it back together can I then sell it as a new car to someone? or should I disclose that it was altered in some way even though it was put back together the same way Honda would do it?

It's still a Honda car. It's still got Honda part. It just wasn't put together by Honda themselves when I'm selling it.

Would you want to know about it?

Or does my analogy suck? Maybe it does. This thread hurt my head.

[burke23]

Originally Posted by asujbl

If I buy a new car - take the whole thing apart - and pay a body shop to put it back together can I then sell it as a new car to someone? or should I disclose that it was altered in some way even though it was put back together the same way Honda would do it?

It's still a Honda car. It's still got Honda part. It just wasn't put together by Honda themselves when I'm selling it.

Would you want to know about it?

Or does my analogy suck? Maybe it does. This thread hurt my head.

Funny - that same analogy is what popped into my head yesterday when reading this thread.

[cowboyzqna]

"Steady as a preacher" Crazy that Ken "acts" like this is OK.
.. I say act because he knows its wrong but that all mighty dollar whispered something different.

Sad deal.