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Old 06-17-2018, 02:38 PM   #51
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Buxton literally has nothing to do with anything. He's been terrible offensively. We know that. But at least he's providing Platinum Glove level defense when he's not hitting. You can try to ignore the fact that Moncada has been useless, but it doesn't change what's happened so far. I know he's young, but he's gotta start showing that he's a quality major leaguer pretty quick
If you're already calling Moncada a bust after 458 at-bats, then Buxton is most definitely a bust by now. That's my point.
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Old 06-17-2018, 02:49 PM   #52
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Why are you trying to make this about Buxton? To humor you, I'll bite- Obviously Buxton hasn't lived up to expectations offensively, but he did at least hit .250 last year. He has his incredible speed that makes hitting .250 still dangerous, not to mention his incredible defense. Moncada doesn't have any of that speed or elite defense to bring value to the lineup if he's not hitting, and he hasn't batted over .231

Like I said, I'm genuinely interested in seeing how Moncada does and honestly am just trying to have conversations about him

For the record, I've never said that Moncada is a bust at this point, and I've never said that Buxton isn't a bust at this point

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If you're already calling Moncada a bust after 458 at-bats, then Buxton is most definitely a bust by now. That's my point.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:10 PM   #53
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One month later, not much has changed. Now hitting .230 on the year with a league leading 136 strikeouts to just 38 walks. Average power with 12 homers so far, and not being as big of a threat on the bases as you'd like with just 9 steals on the year (caught stealing twice)
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:12 PM   #54
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One month later, not much has changed. Now hitting .230 on the year with a league leading 136 strikeouts to just 38 walks. Average power with 12 homers so far, and not being as big of a threat on the bases as you'd like with just 9 steals on the year (caught stealing twice)
But he's young and he will only get better, right?
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:15 PM   #55
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One month later, not much has changed. Now hitting .230 on the year with a league leading 136 strikeouts to just 38 walks. Average power with 12 homers so far, and not being as big of a threat on the bases as you'd like with just 9 steals on the year (caught stealing twice)
I'm still a believer but the lack of progression is alarming. I'm about through giving him mulligans. Plate discipline has never really been a part of his game, even in the minors, but he absolutely has to work on it in the off season. You can't stick in the majors on a rebuilding team with this kind of performance.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:16 PM   #56
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But he's young and he will only get better, right?
Considering you whine and complain every time I talk negatively about the Cubs, you do the same thing for the Sox.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:25 PM   #57
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Age is about the only thing he has going for him right now, honestly. He's only 23, and he'll only have a year and a half MLB time under his belt after the season, but he's shown practically no improvement so far. Batting average this year is sitting exactly the same as what he posted through 54 games last year, but OBP is over 30 points lower, and I believe the strikeout rate is up and walk rate is down from last year as well

There's still time, but it just about has to be next year. For a White Sox team that wants to be turning around right now, they can't carry someone that has shown absolutely no progression in 2 and a half years in the majors. Next year is looking like the last year to prove it

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I'm still a believer but the lack of progression is alarming. I'm about through giving him mulligans. Plate discipline has never really been a part of his game, even in the minors, but he absolutely has to work on it in the off season. You can't stick in the majors on a rebuilding team with this kind of performance.
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But he's young and he will only get better, right?
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:28 PM   #58
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:30 PM   #59
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Age is about the only thing he has going for him right now, honestly. He's only 23, and he'll only have a year and a half MLB time under his belt after the season, but he's shown practically no improvement so far. Batting average this year is sitting exactly the same as what he posted through 54 games last year, but OBP is over 30 points lower, and I believe the strikeout rate is up and walk rate is down from last year as well

There's still time, but it just about has to be next year. For a White Sox team that wants to be turning around right now, they can't carry someone that has shown absolutely no progression in 2 and a half years in the majors. Next year is looking like the last year to prove it
It's strange because you see glimpses occasionally of why many thought he would be a star. Unfortunately his cold streaks have lasted far longer than his hot streaks. I know the Sox have experimented with moving him all around the lineup but his approach always seems to stay the same. He is up there looking to hack and is totally not interested in taking a walk. He gets behind in a count, as he usually does, and it's over. He just can't lay off anything. So unbelievably frustrating to see someone so talented inexplicably incapable of getting on base to utilize his entire skill set.
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Old 07-23-2018, 11:35 PM   #60
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As a Twins fan, tell me about it...

Moncada will have to have a month long streak of solid baseball, plus a good start next year to convince me he's legit. I'm just not seeing it so far. A couple of week long hot streaks aren't cutting it

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It's strange because you see glimpses occasionally of why many thought he would be a star. Unfortunately his cold streaks have lasted far longer than his hot streaks. I know the Sox have experimented with moving him all around the lineup but his approach always seems to stay the same. He is up there looking to hack and is totally not interested in taking a walk. He gets behind in a count, as he usually does, and it's over. He just can't lay off anything. So unbelievably frustrating to see someone so talented inexplicably incapable of getting on base to utilize his entire skill set.
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Old 07-24-2018, 12:31 AM   #61
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In the past hour Moncada has worked a walk after being behind in the count 1-2, got a base hit, and stole a base. Guess he's listening. LOL
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:18 AM   #62
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As a Twins fan, tell me about it...

Moncada will have to have a month long streak of solid baseball, plus a good start next year to convince me he's legit. I'm just not seeing it so far. A couple of week long hot streaks aren't cutting it
Good thing you aren't the GM of the White Sox then.

I kid, but in all seriousness there are some things I have to comment on. First, I'll say, I'm a Sox fan and a Moncada fan. I am biased in my view and hope that Moncada becomes a good/great player. Despite my fandom it would be disingenuous for me to say that I am happy with his performance thus far this year. He's regressed in some areas, and he's had some very correctable mental errors at 2b. That said, there are some bad takes in this thread.

Those saying that the Sox can't afford to carry a player like Moncada during this period must not have watched a single Sox game this year. They are nothing short of awful. Moncada is SECOND on the team in WAR to only Tim Anderson. His net impact on the team is 1.3 WAR player which has dropped a few points after a bad series in Seattle this weekend. Even with that bad series he's hitting .260+ with an 863 OPS in his past 15 games.

Moncada's "baseball card statistics" have regressed a bit this year. His walk rate is down three points from last season as is his OBP, which is discouraging. His walk rate however is 65th best in baseball ahead of players like Jose Altuve, Giancarlo Stanton

He's tied for 52 in the MLB in extra base hits. 6th best among MLB second baseman. Only 6 2nd baseman have more homers or steals. His ISO power is 9th best amongst his peers.

Also, for the comment about plate discipline (made by a different poster), it's just not accurate to say Moncada is an undisciplined hacker at the plate. Moncada's issue has been a lack of contact (which may be worse), not undisciplined hacking. In fact his swing rate at pitches outside the zone is the 25 lowest in all of baseball. His swing rate inside the zone is also 123 (meaning 123 swing at a higher percentage). His first pitch strike rate is 65.9, 14th highest in MLB. What it suggests is someone who if anything, is to COMPLACENT in their approach. In waiting for the perfect pitch, he's starting out down a strike and is left swinging at tougher pitches when he has to defend (he also is amongst the top in MLB in looking Ks). It suggests that Moncada needs an adjustment to his approach, not that he is carelessly free swinging. I would venture to say his eye is among the best in the game, but his approach is in need of adjustment.

There are lots of other advanced statistics to suggest Moncada has a bright future (ISO power, hard hit rates, etc.) and his xBH numbers are very strong for his position. This of course has to all be balanced with the strikeouts , and the VERY correctable fielding errors. With just a hair under a season worth of ABs across two years now, he is a 2.5 WAR player, which while not a superstar level, is far from bust territory. In fact, that puts him a hair higher than Javier Baez at a similar point in his career.

Does this mean Moncada, is the next Baez or a surefire superstar? Of course not. But it suggests that the bust label is not accurate and that patience is warranted for a young talented player on a VERY bad team. If the Sox are (or are not contending) in 2020, and 25 year old Moncada is still posting these numbers, then it's a legitimate take.

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Old 07-24-2018, 01:40 AM   #63
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Your insight is appreciated, but I have a couple things to note in response-

I think the fact that Moncada is 2nd in WAR on the Sox is more of a testament to how bad the team is this year rather than a sign that Moncada's better than his numbers may suggest. There's certainly no reason to abandon hopes for him yet, and no, he's not hurting the team any more than the next guy by being in the lineup every day (though you could certainly argue that he should get some time at AAA to try to get things figured out)

Regarding the solid past 2 weeks, that's fine, but that's really all he's been able to do. He'll be hot for a bit here and there, but nothing sustained at all

The extra base hits are nice, but I'd argue that those are canceled out by his terrible average and sky high strikeout rate. Your paragraph about him having a good eye and not being a free swinger is interesting, but I agree with the idea that that could be even more of a negative than if he was a free swinger. If he's already striking out at the rate at he is without swinging at bad pitches, that's not good. I'd venture to say it's much easier to teach a player to lay off of stuff out of the zone than it is to simply make contact with stuff in the zone

Lastly, and tied in to everything I've said above, ff course there's time for him to figure it out. Like I said, he's super young, he's not hurting the Sox much since the team is so bad, and he doesn't have a lot of time in the bigs yet. Still, you would have hoped for him to A) Start off at a higher level after being hyped up as such a big prospect, and/or B) Having shown some to ANY improvements by this point other than getting hot for a week or so at a time. Nobody's calling him a bust (other than my buddy HR who put the words into my mouth for me ) but it isn't a good start by any means. Nobody's saying hope is lost - yet - but the concern is rightfully growing

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Good thing you aren't the GM of the White Sox then.

I kid, but in all seriousness there are some things I have to comment on. First, I'll say, I'm a Sox fan and a Moncada fan. I am biased in my view and hope that Moncada becomes a good/great player. Despite my fandom it would be disingenuous for me to say that I am happy with his performance thus far this year. He's regressed in some areas, and he's had some very correctable mental errors at 2b. That said, there are some bad takes in this thread.

Those saying that the Sox can't afford to carry a player like Moncada during this period must not have watched a single Sox game this year. They are nothing short of awful. Moncada is SECOND on the team in WAR to only Tim Anderson. His net impact on the team is 1.3 WAR player which has dropped a few points after a bad series in Seattle this weekend. Even with that bad series he's hitting .260+ with an 863 OPS in his past 15 games.

Moncada's "baseball card statistics" have regressed a bit this year. His walk rate is down three points from last season as is his OBP, which is discouraging. His walk rate however is 65th best in baseball ahead of players like Jose Altuve, Giancarlo Stanton

He's tied for 52 in the MLB in extra base hits. 6th best among MLB second baseman. Only 6 2nd baseman have more homers or steals. His ISO power is 9th best amongst his peers.

Also, for the comment about plate discipline (made by a different poster), it's just not accurate to say Moncada is an undisciplined hacker at the plate. Moncada's issue has been a lack of contact (which may be worse), not undisciplined hacking. In fact his swing rate at pitches outside the zone is the 25 lowest in all of baseball. His swing rate inside the zone is also 123 (meaning 123 swing at a higher percentage). His first pitch strike rate is 65.9, 14th highest in MLB. What it suggests is someone who if anything, is to COMPLACENT in their approach. In waiting for the perfect pitch, he's starting out down a strike and is left swinging at tougher pitches when he has to defend (he also is amongst the top in MLB in looking Ks). It suggests that Moncada needs an adjustment to his approach, not that he is carelessly free swinging. I would venture to say his eye is among the best in the game, but his approach is in need of adjustment.

There are lots of other advanced statistics to suggest Moncada has a bright future (ISO power, hard hit rates, etc.) and his xBH numbers are very strong for his position. This of course has to all be balanced with the strikeouts , and the VERY correctable fielding errors. With just a hair under a season worth of ABs across two years now, he is a 2.5 WAR player, which while not a superstar level, is far from bust territory. In fact, that puts him a hair higher than Javier Baez at a similar point in his career.

Does this mean Moncada, is the next Baez or a surefire superstar? Of course not. But it suggests that the bust label is not accurate and that patience is warranted for a young talented player on a VERY bad team. If the Sox are (or are not contending) in 2020, and 25 year old Moncada is still posting these numbers, then it's a legitimate take.
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:49 AM   #64
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Good thing you aren't the GM of the White Sox then.

I kid, but in all seriousness there are some things I have to comment on. First, I'll say, I'm a Sox fan and a Moncada fan. I am biased in my view and hope that Moncada becomes a good/great player. Despite my fandom it would be disingenuous for me to say that I am happy with his performance thus far this year. He's regressed in some areas, and he's had some very correctable mental errors at 2b. That said, there are some bad takes in this thread.

Those saying that the Sox can't afford to carry a player like Moncada during this period must not have watched a single Sox game this year. They are nothing short of awful. Moncada is SECOND on the team in WAR to only Tim Anderson. His net impact on the team is 1.3 WAR player which has dropped a few points after a bad series in Seattle this weekend. Even with that bad series he's hitting .260+ with an 863 OPS in his past 15 games.

Moncada's "baseball card statistics" have regressed a bit this year. His walk rate is down three points from last season as is his OBP, which is discouraging. His walk rate however is 65th best in baseball ahead of players like Jose Altuve, Giancarlo Stanton

He's tied for 52 in the MLB in extra base hits. 6th best among MLB second baseman. Only 6 2nd baseman have more homers or steals. His ISO power is 9th best amongst his peers.

Also, for the comment about plate discipline (made by a different poster), it's just not accurate to say Moncada is an undisciplined hacker at the plate. Moncada's issue has been a lack of contact (which may be worse), not undisciplined hacking. In fact his swing rate at pitches outside the zone is the 25 lowest in all of baseball. His swing rate inside the zone is also 123 (meaning 123 swing at a higher percentage). His first pitch strike rate is 65.9, 14th highest in MLB. What it suggests is someone who if anything, is to COMPLACENT in their approach. In waiting for the perfect pitch, he's starting out down a strike and is left swinging at tougher pitches when he has to defend (he also is amongst the top in MLB in looking Ks). It suggests that Moncada needs an adjustment to his approach, not that he is carelessly free swinging. I would venture to say his eye is among the best in the game, but his approach is in need of adjustment.

There are lots of other advanced statistics to suggest Moncada has a bright future (ISO power, hard hit rates, etc.) and his xBH numbers are very strong for his position. This of course has to all be balanced with the strikeouts , and the VERY correctable fielding errors. With just a hair under a season worth of ABs across two years now, he is a 2.5 WAR player, which while not a superstar level, is far from bust territory. In fact, that puts him a hair higher than Javier Baez at a similar point in his career.

Does this mean Moncada, is the next Baez or a surefire superstar? Of course not. But it suggests that the bust label is not accurate and that patience is warranted for a young talented player on a VERY bad team. If the Sox are (or are not contending) in 2020, and 25 year old Moncada is still posting these numbers, then it's a legitimate take.
Let me say that I appreciate the thought you put into this post. I can dig it, I really can.

But I know what I see. I see a guy with zero plate discipline who hacks at everything. I've watched plenty of his at bats which usually lead me to slamming my laptop closed after he flails at another pitch well out of the zone for strike three.

I love Moncada. I collect Moncada. I want him to figure it out and become a superstar for several reasons, mainly for my wallet. But I'm not blind.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:59 AM   #65
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Let me say that I appreciate the thought you put into this post. I can dig it, I really can.

But I know what I see. I see a guy with zero plate discipline who hacks at everything. I've watched plenty of his at bats which usually lead me to slamming my laptop closed after he flails at another pitch well out of the zone for strike three.

I love Moncada. I collect Moncada. I want him to figure it out and become a superstar for several reasons, mainly for my wallet. But I'm not blind.


Well I didnít suggest you were blind, but as someone who lives in Chicago and watches probably 5 Sox games a week, Iíve had a different experience. Iíve been far more frustrated with Moncada having the bat on his shoulder for far too many first pitch strikes or being caught looking on close pitches on strike three. He has swing and miss in his game, and probably always will, but IMO there is a difference between swing and miss and hacking at bad pitches.

Iím not suggesting your personal experiences watching arenít accurate, but Iím going to make an assumption (perhaps an unfair one) that you are out of market, and perhaps donít watch the (white) Sox daily, even if you have MLB tv. My only point is that the numbers donít reconcile with the position that Yoan Moncada is striking out because heís chasing a lot of pitches out of the zone. He does however have poor contact rAtes which probably make him look a bit more of a ďhackerĒ than others.

All that said, we can agree upon one thing. He needs to get better in many facets of the game. I too have a LOT of Moncada cards, but they are for PC, not an investment of any sort. Iím not as worried about the quick stardom such as players like Juan Soto, as I am it it for the long haul; but I admit, my expectations were higher and Iíd like to see more from him.

Iím hoping he can progress in the second half and show more progress in 2019. For now I continue to be patient and hope in 2020 heís leading us into contention.




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Old 07-24-2018, 07:36 AM   #66
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I hear a lot on Chicago sports radio about possibly moving him to third. He's not a good second baseman and the argument is moving to an easier position might free him up mentally to focus on his offense. I don't watch enough Sox baseball to have an opinion - just wondering what you guys think.
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Old 07-24-2018, 08:12 AM   #67
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Considering you whine and complain every time I talk negatively about the Cubs, you do the same thing for the Sox.
If this was true, my post count would be over 10,000.

You seem to post more about the Cubs than you do the Sox or even Chris Sale. When will the chip be lifted off your shoulder? Life's too short to let a team and their fans consume you the way the Cubs occupy your head. Let it go man....let it go.
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Old 07-24-2018, 09:06 AM   #68
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If this was true, my post count would be over 10,000.

You seem to post more about the Cubs than you do the Sox or even Chris Sale. When will the chip be lifted off your shoulder? Life's too short to let a team and their fans consume you the way the Cubs occupy your head. Let it go man....let it go.
Oh the irony.

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Old 07-24-2018, 09:32 AM   #69
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Moancada is one of those off-season sales I'm counting my blessings on. Can't believe I sold a blue gem for $700...
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Old 07-24-2018, 01:31 PM   #70
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If this was true, my post count would be over 10,000.

You seem to post more about the Cubs than you do the Sox or even Chris Sale. When will the chip be lifted off your shoulder? Life's too short to let a team and their fans consume you the way the Cubs occupy your head. Let it go man....let it go.
Well I definitely occupy your head...so there's that.
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Old 07-24-2018, 02:29 PM   #71
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Well I definitely occupy your head...so there's that.
Yeah that makes sense. Let's review what happened over the past day or so...

1) Hollywood makes a post about him not progressing.
2) I respond to Hollywood saying he's young and will only get better.
3) You go on one of your temper tantrums saying I complain about you posting about the Cubs.

Lol...my post had nothing to do with you, yet you right off the bat were triggered. Why are you so angry all the time?
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Old 07-24-2018, 03:09 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by Big35Hurt View Post
Yeah that makes sense. Let's review what happened over the past day or so...

1) Hollywood makes a post about him not progressing.
2) I respond to Hollywood saying he's young and will only get better.
3) You go on one of your temper tantrums saying I complain about you posting about the Cubs.

Lol...my post had nothing to do with you, yet you right off the bat were triggered. Why are you so angry all the time?
You were clearly trolling. I don't know why you always act like the victim.
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Old 07-24-2018, 03:14 PM   #73
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Sorry to be on-topic here..
I guess the only question for me is will his prices continue to plummet to the point that I'll be picking up stuff in the offseason? Seems like he could be headed for one of my post-hype sleeper buy lists if this continues.
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Old 07-24-2018, 03:19 PM   #74
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Sorry to be on-topic here..
I guess the only question for me is will his prices continue to plummet to the point that I'll be picking up stuff in the offseason? Seems like he could be headed for one of my post-hype sleeper buy lists if this continues.
Depends how the rest of his season goes. I personally think he's about to catch fire and have bought a couple recently (blue gem included), but if he doesn't end the season strong he will definitely be a good offseason buy.
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Old 07-24-2018, 03:27 PM   #75
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Depends how the rest of his season goes. I personally think he's about to catch fire and have bought a couple recently (blue gem included), but if he doesn't end the season strong he will definitely be a good offseason buy.
Agreed. Also. For better or worse, many are heavily invested in him and that may help w prices if n when he catches fire. Heís shown glimpses, but has yet to put together a level of consistency that would warrant a rise in prices. Heís got a lot of work to do.
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