Beckett just got Kencope'D

[murrke03]

Originally Posted by kencope

You may have missed the several times it's been posted, but in order to buy into that theory you'll need to explain to me how the Andrew Luck Topps Chrome SSP Autos that people have been given as replacements for other cards don't add to the total population.

When did you get te luck card? What year?

The hobby has changed how it handles replacements in recent years.

[FreeMan12406]

Oh, another quick question....

On your eBay listings, you list the fact that is was as uncut sheet at the very bottom of your listing, in smaller print than your listing, and after your shipping services.

This card was manufactured by Fleer as part of an extremely limited sheet. The sheet was then cut using the same process and to the exact same specifications as Fleer. The card is 100% authentic.

Just curious why you don't advertise the card as cut from a sheet better?

[murrke03]

Originally Posted by SportsItUpCards

Ooooh, ok, sorry.... I apologies. So you worked at Fleer, so you know their process and everything. For a second I thought you were an average Joe buying up sheets, putting a class bowl around it to cut, and passing them off as the real deal, with NO disclaimer.... I see you use disclaimers! So yes, my fault. What else have you learned while working at Fleer? I always love learning new things. Of course if you don't mind sharing.

It's a shame he probably could have just bought a two dollar exacto and traced an existing card.

At least he cleared up that he is indeed lying and deceiving in his auction when he states they were cut in same process and to same specs. They clearly weren't.

[SportsItUpCards]

Originally Posted by murrke03

It's a shame he probably could have just bought a two dollar exacto and traced an existing card.

Yeah... No. Buying a Van Horn cheap copy and tracing it would be the cheap way out and have no flash at all. Might as well go out with a bang and do it right! Metal plates and all.....

I think the majority would care nothing for the collectors, and they would cut draw over one and start cutting, so Ken is the MAN for investing thousands on plates and all to pass it off as the real thing.

You're the MAN, Ken!

[FreeMan12406]

Originally Posted by kencope

You may have missed the several times it's been posted, but in order to buy into that theory you'll need to explain to me how the Andrew Luck Topps Chrome SSP Autos that people have been given as replacements for other cards don't add to the total population.

Are you well versed in fallacies? What you are engaging in is called "fallacy of division."

But just to tickle your fancy, prove that the Andrew Luck in question came from an uncut sheet, and was only then cut to be made as a replacement.

[FreeMan12406]

Originally Posted by 1eyed_jack

I think in terms of this portion of the argument, BGS graded the cards highly, so what moral or ethical implications aside, I think it's safe the say the cards were cut as good and accurate as Fleer did.

The last graded Jordan he sold according to his eBay, the edges were graded a 7.5

I would say that isn't very accurate.

[SportsItUpCards]

Originally Posted by FreeMan12406

Are you well versed in fallacies? What you are engaging in is called "fallacy of division."

But just to tickle your fancy, prove that the Andrew Luck in question came from an uncut sheet, and was only then cut to be made as a replacement.

Who's this Luck everyone speaks of? He's not a basketball player that I've never heard of, is he? Or another sport?

Ken.......... Have you been busy with OTHER sports as well!? you dirt dog, YOU. You've been around the block, huh. Wow smh

[1eyed_jack]

Originally Posted by FreeMan12406

Are you well versed in fallacies? What you are engaging in is called "fallacy of division."

But just to tickle your fancy, prove that the Andrew Luck in question came from an uncut sheet, and was only then cut to be made as a replacement.

fallacies, fallacies, one for you and two for me

[murrke03]

Originally Posted by SportsItUpCards

Yeah... No. Buying a Van Horn cheap copy and tracing it would be the cheap way out and have no flash at all. Might as well go out with a bang and do it right! Metal plates and all.....

I think the majority would care nothing for the collectors, and they would cut draw over one and start cutting, so Ken is the MAN for investing thousands on plates and all to pass it off as the real thing.

You're the MAN, Ken!

Don't you know fleer specificstions were that the card edges should grade 7.5 right after being cut!

[kencope]

You made the statement, the burden of proof is upon you. Your claim is that it was wrong to have the Jambalayas go from uncut sheet form to final form. Your basis for this argument is that it adds to the total population and should only be done when the same card is taken in for replacement.

By rebuttal is that cards are "added" to the total population all of the time. I gave you an example of that. By the way, all cards produced come from uncut sheets.

Originally Posted by FreeMan12406

Are you well versed in fallacies? What you are engaging in is called "fallacy of division."

But just to tickle your fancy, prove that the Andrew Luck in question came from an uncut sheet, and was only then cut to be made as a replacement.

[kencope]

Of course I have. I deal in basketball very little. Most of my inventory is in football and baseball with a limited amount of basketball and golf.

Originally Posted by SportsItUpCards

Who's this Luck everyone speaks of? He's not a basketball player that I've never heard of, is he? Or another sport?

Ken.......... Have you been busy with OTHER sports as well!? you dirt dog, YOU. You've been around the block, huh. Wow smh

[SportsItUpCards]

Originally Posted by murrke03

Don't you know fleer specificstions were that the card edges should grade 7.5 right after being cut!

Tell me about it.... smh

Don't you like how he skips things he can't answer because he was caught! But he answers to things he knows he can argue SMDH

At least we know his games, and can warm others..... That's the bottom line.

[oldgoldy97]

:turkey::turkey::turkey::turkey::turkey::turkey::turkey::turkey::turkey:

[SportsItUpCards]

Originally Posted by oldgoldy97

:turkey::turkey::turkey::turkey::turkey::turkey::turkey::turkey::turkey:

Dead horses don't talk...... and they certainly don't insult people.

[murrke03]

Clearly these are not cut anywhere near the same process and specificstions as the originals.

Ken you should edit your listings because you are lying and deceiving

[FreeMan12406]

Originally Posted by kencope

You made the statement, the burden of proof is upon you. Your claim is that it was wrong to have the Jambalayas go from uncut sheet form to final form.

I have a problem with people lying about whether a card is pack pulled or cut themselves because "they don't see a problem with it."

Well hell, I'm sure some child molester's don't see a problem with what they are doing either.

You only stated (in a poor way) to potential buyers that is was cut by you after this whole fiasco.

Originally Posted by kencope

Your basis for this argument is that it adds to the total population and should only be done when the same card is taken in for replacement.

Take a 1/1's for example. Card companies in the past (notably Upper Deck) have released uncut sheets in boxes of cards before. Sometimes the sheet is for the 1/1's in that set. What if someone cut the sheets up, and now there are more than just the one. That is adding to the total population and couldn't possibly be apart of the 1/1's print run because it's just a 1/1.

Originally Posted by kencope

By rebuttal is that cards are "added" to the total population all of the time. I gave you an example of that. By the way, all cards produced come from uncut sheets.

What is the Andrew Luck's print run?

[kencope]

I've never lied about any of this. That's the best part. Why would I ever have told anyone this if I was trying to cover something up? Nobody "uncovered" anything, I've been completely upfront and honest about it. I told people I was going to do it before I did it. I've answered every question over, and over, and over again openly and honestly while under no obligation to do so. What about that is lying? If I was trying to deceive I would have just told everyone that these cards were not cut from sheets, end of story.

Child molestors? Really? Don't go there.

Your 1/1 example isn't a good one.

No idea what the print run of the Andrew Luck is. Rumored to be around 20, but I have no idea. No idea what the Jambalaya print run is either.

Originally Posted by FreeMan12406

I have a problem with people lying about whether a card is pack pulled or cut themselves because "they don't see a problem with it."

Well hell, I'm sure some child molester's don't see a problem with what they are doing either.

You only stated (in a poor way) to potential buyers that is was cut by you after this whole fiasco.




Take a 1/1's for example. Card companies in the past (notably Upper Deck) have released uncut sheets in boxes of cards before. Sometimes the sheet is for the 1/1's in that set. What if someone cut the sheets up, and now there are more than just the one. That is adding to the total population and couldn't possibly be apart of the 1/1's print run because it's just a 1/1.




What is the Andrew Luck's print run?

[murrke03]

Ken you have lied about this. You still are.

[SportsItUpCards]

Originally Posted by murrke03

Ken you have lied about this. You still are.

Could it be he convinced himself and thinks that everyone else is convinced also?

I mean, besides his backers, I don't see ANYONE okay with this shady practice.

Anyway.... Carry on, Ken! You're the MAN!!!!!

[kencope]

Right, besides the people that agree with me you don't see anyone who agrees with me.

Thanks, appreciate that, will do.

Originally Posted by SportsItUpCards

Could it be he convinced himself and thinks that everyone else is convinced also?

I mean, besides his backers, I don't see ANYONE okay with this shady practice.

Anyway.... Carry on, Ken! You're the MAN!!!!!

[FreeMan12406]

I would also assume you only went with Beckett because no one else would grade cards from uncut sheets?

Babe Waxpak: To cut or not to cut card sheets, that is a complex dilemma : Record Searchlight

Da Babe checked in with the three leading grading companies.

"Our policy is not to intentionally grade a sheet-cut card," said Joe Orlando, president of PSA/DNA (www.psacardcom).

Sean Skeffington, of Welcome to SGC!, said his company doesn't grade cards cut from sheets.

That might be true, but in the world of card collecting and values, a 9.5 or 10 grade for the Griffey card is going to rake in a lot more dough than an uncut sheet.

Mark Anderson, director Beckett's Grading Services (Beckett.com), said his company might grade a card cut from a sheet post-factory if it meets "exacting standards" — whatever those might be.

Da Babe isn't up on all the processes being used today to produce cards, but collectors and graders have to remember that most cards ever produced were cut from sheets at the factory.

When we're talking about cards made before Upper Deck changed production standards, most graders say they almost always can tell the difference between a card cut off a sheet at the factory years ago and a card trimmed from a sheet two weeks ago. It's all about the striations and marks on the edges of the card that are easily seen upon magnification.

"Yes, you are correct that generally, graders can easily identify sheet-cut cards, but certain modern sets are a little more problematic to distinguish. A slick, all-white stock like 1989 UD, where all the cards are cut super smooth and the sizes varied, would be one of the most difficult to tell."

"But I think all of that is too much for your readers," Anderson said. "The question is probably not so much, 'can you', but rather, 'should you'? Beckett alone has graded nearly 28,000 copies of the 1989 Upper Deck No. 1 Ken Griffey Jr. card, making it the most graded card in existence. Thus, even with an elusive 9.5 or 10 grade, the card is much rarer in uncut sheet form, and far more unique."

"One note is to ask is why sheets still exist. In most cases, sheets that still exist were often the result of quality control kicks. They had creases, misprints, registration issues, or other surface defects so they often got kicked to a reject pile. Thus, just cutting a card off of a sheet is still no guarantee of a high grade. Every aspect of the cutting has to be exact, the centering perfect, the edges and corners spared from any nick during the process, and the surface has to be immaculate. Many of the holograms are chipped on those cards right on the sheets, and there are several common indentations and printer's streaks on that card."

So Da Babe sticks to his guns and says the uncut sheet might be worth $10 to $40 to the right collector and we'll just leave the speculation about trimming out that Griffey card as that — speculation, except to note that PSA says a Grade 9 card books at $50 and a Grade 10 lists for $200.

[kencope]

Yes Freeman, Beckett was my only grading option of the Big 3.

[callou2131]

You're completely correct that I didn't have that disclaimer in the first run of auctions, but it wasn't because I was "called out".





Originally Posted by callou2131 View Post
He only did that after he was called out.

Are you serious? So not only are you a disgrace you are also a flat out Liar as well. You NEVER would have put that disclaimer in if everyone didn't find out how you were cheating people!

[SportsItUpCards]

Originally Posted by callou2131

You're completely correct that I didn't have that disclaimer in the first run of auctions, but it wasn't because I was "called out".





Originally Posted by callou2131 View Post
He only did that after he was called out.

Are you serious? So not only are you a disgrace you are also a flat out Liar as well. You NEVER would have put that disclaimer in if SportsItUpCards didn't find out how you were cheating people!

There, I fixed it for you! :turkey:

[kencope]

Find out? Find out because I told everyone I was doing it beforehand? Or because I immediately and clearly answered yes when asked? Way to crack that case detectives!