2018 Hall of Fame Ballot

[duwal]

Originally Posted by rats60

Never. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing that I needed to cheat to win a game. It's not like the minimum salary isn't enough to set yourself up for life. It would make anything I accomplished worthless. Are you ok with Bernie Madoff cheating people? Would you be like Bernie if you knew you wouldn't get caught? How much is your reputation worth? Steroid guys are looked at as lepers among their peers, and not just baseball. Just look at Lance Armstrong.

Calling BS on this one.

1) Madoff was cheating people out of their life savings. Steroids are only one part in which players/managers/organizations have been known to cheat throughout the entire history of the sport including already inducting players known for their cheating ways

2) The minimum salary back then was nothing compared to today. There is no way that a bottom of the roster guy earning the minimum would be able to "set themselves up for life". 1990 the minimum salary in baseball was $100,000, in 1995 it was $109,000. Someone playing in the main steroid era from 1985-2000 would not be making the type of money that would last them throughout the rest of the decades that they would be living

3) Pretty sure most people would not care about what their reputation would be from people that they have never met or talked to especially if the means of "ruining" their reputation meant that they could really help out and support their family and give them a better life compared to if they had not taken steroids. If I was a baseball player why on earth would I care what your opinion, as a casual fan, would be?

[mfw13]

The bigger issue for me is the fact that Bud Selig was inducted.

How can you punish players for using steroids, but at the same time reward the commissioner who turned a blind eye to the whole sordid affair because it benefited the owners in the form of higher attendance and TV ratings?

You can't have it both ways....i.e. tacitly allowing steroids by not putting your proverbial foot down, and then punishing players for it after the fact.

[rj.cataldo]

Originally Posted by mfw13

The bigger issue for me is the fact that Bud Selig was inducted.

How can you punish players for using steroids, but at the same time reward the commissioner who turned a blind eye to the whole sordid affair because it benefited the owners in the form of higher attendance and TV ratings?

You can't have it both ways....i.e. tacitly allowing steroids by not putting your proverbial foot down, and then punishing players for it after the fact.

agreed. ultimately people can punish the steroid users all they want, but a lot of people including the fans, turned a blind eye. the fact is, bonds and clemens are two of the best ever and were hofers before they allegedly started. the point has been made, and its time to let them in.

[509Native12]

I am truly happy for Edgar and the Mariner's organization
I don't really have a opinion towards players who Used!? Or didn't...
Their own business

I do however believe in forgiveness!
With that being said, and without sounding judgmental

Please come down from your soapbox , and Get Charlie Hustle ( Pete Rose ) All Time Hits leader in the Hall !!

[babybull]

Originally Posted by duwal

Calling BS on this one.

1) Madoff was cheating people out of their life savings. Steroids are only one part in which players/managers/organizations have been known to cheat throughout the entire history of the sport including already inducting players known for their cheating ways

2) The minimum salary back then was nothing compared to today. There is no way that a bottom of the roster guy earning the minimum would be able to "set themselves up for life". 1990 the minimum salary in baseball was $100,000, in 1995 it was $109,000. Someone playing in the main steroid era from 1985-2000 would not be making the type of money that would last them throughout the rest of the decades that they would be living

3) Pretty sure most people would not care about what their reputation would be from people that they have never met or talked to especially if the means of "ruining" their reputation meant that they could really help out and support their family and give them a better life compared to if they had not taken steroids. If I was a baseball player why on earth would I care what your opinion, as a casual fan, would be?

Boy, is this true, and boy, is this sad. The "casual fans" buy tickets, jerseys, baseball cards. Of course, a player shouldn't give a flying fig about us.

[Scottish Punk]

yes rats60 post is the ultimate in false equivalency. That is the same argument I could have if I asked if you drank coffee in the morning. That is cheating since you are taking a performance enhancing drug.

Speaking of having it both ways. Another example is that the HOF didn't seem to have an issue putting in Tony Larussa as a manager. Of course, he had no idea that Canseco and McGuire were taking anything. Right.

[joejoemay]

I do like these discussions and I totally respect everyone's opinions...crazy interesting and I love the passion. I totally get the coffee reference above (drinking it right now) and it made me what to post...the stuff many of the guys were using was legal at the time right? Not going to do a ton of research here as it's just my thoughts and I am not a voter. So as some one said earlier why knock them for trying to get a leg up? Using the technology at hand (unless specifically ban) shouldn't be even a thing...though I know not everyone was just drinking protein shakes but no one was wanting to police them back when they were slamming the balls left and right then, why are we starting now? The 2nd and 3rd effects on other (supposedly clean) players is now effecting their HOF chances. If Bonds and Clemens where in already; think of where those votes would have gone these last few years? So some of these guys get pounded twice (once on the field and when trying to reach the Hall).
Listen the Hall of Fame is not a hall for saints or is it listed as a Medal of Honor it's a place showing off legends of a sport, some famous, some infamous and all just human beings...adding a guy who is the all time home run leader (I won't say king...that's Ruth and then Aaron) doesn't clear him of any sin nor does it (in my opinion) diminish Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth's accomplishments. My suggestion would be to put it right there on his plaque as a huge part of his write up..."King of the Steroid Era" it would make it just as much a slap in the face as an honor and we could all move on. The rules are in place now (3 steroid) strikes and you are out....they were not enforced back in the day we shouldn't be enforcing them now years after the fact. These guys are only human and they got to play a game for a living, lets not elevate them above others but recognized them for what they did but also call them out for how they did it.

[duwal]

Originally Posted by joejoemay

I do like these discussions and I totally respect everyone's opinions...crazy interesting and I love the passion. I totally get the coffee reference above (drinking it right now) and it made me what to post...the stuff many of the guys were using was legal at the time right? Not going to do a ton of research here as it's just my thoughts and I am not a voter. So as some one said earlier why knock them for trying to get a leg up? Using the technology at hand (unless specifically ban) shouldn't be even a thing...though I know not everyone was just drinking protein shakes but no one was wanting to police them back when they were slamming the balls left and right then, why are we starting now? The 2nd and 3rd effects on other (supposedly clean) players is now effecting their HOF chances. If Bonds and Clemens where in already; think of where those votes would have gone these last few years? So some of these guys get pounded twice (once on the field and when trying to reach the Hall).
Listen the Hall of Fame is not a hall for saints or is it listed as a Medal of Honor it's a place showing off legends of a sport, some famous, some infamous and all just human beings...adding a guy who is the all time home run leader (I won't say king...that's Ruth and then Aaron) doesn't clear him of any sin nor does it (in my opinion) diminish Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth's accomplishments. My suggestion would be to put it right there on his plaque as a huge part of his write up..."King of the Steroid Era" it would make it just as much a slap in the face as an honor and we could all move on. The rules are in place now (3 steroid) strikes and you are out....they were not enforced back in the day we shouldn't be enforcing them now years after the fact. These guys are only human and they got to play a game for a living, lets not elevate them above others but recognized them for what they did but also call them out for how they did it.

The problem is we don't know exactly when the steroid era actually started. We know that some have used steroids in their sports since the late 50's. We don't know for sure if we can 100% hold our heroes (like Aaron) higher than Bonds accomplishments. People say look at Bonds home run totals, his best year came when he was 36 years old and should have been slowing down. Well Hank Aaron had his best home run total, slugging percentage and OPS in his 18th season when he was 37. We only know really the time that people took them pretty rampantly from the mid 80's to early in the 2000's when MLB finally set up a penalty system for those caught. But these didn't suddenly pop up in the mid 80's as something to possibly increase performances. It was around and available in the 60's and 70's for all who wanted to try while being under the league's detection

[jeterfan95]

I just came to the conclusion that during the 90's, MLB was very lack on PED use in the sport. A good part of that was because the Player's Association was protecting against it, but regardless. Players like Bonds and Clemens essentially found a loophole in the agreement and exploited it. Just think of it as some high school kid throwing a party when his parents are out of town. Players were being deterred from using PEDs, but there wasn't any way they could get caught unless they went straight into the commissioner's office and injected themselves. I don't condone what these players did, but I can't really punish them for it. I'm incapable of picking through the masses and deciding who cheated and who didn't. I don't know what drugs or energy boosters certain players were taking in the 70's. While most players greatly benefited from using, I don't believe all did. Barry Bonds didn't get his hand/eye coordination from any cream or needle.

[kyle1707]

Sorry if i go over board with Larry

Chipper was my Favorite player ... I think because of TBS

Lots of articles of late with HOF coming..

Found another stat

Hanging with The Babe, Stan The Man and The Iron Horse
Jones joins Ruth, Stan Musial, Lou Gehrig, Mel Ott and Ted Williams as one of only six players in MLB history to record a .300 batting average, a .400 on-base percentage, a .500 slugging percentage, 450 home runs, 1,500 walks, 1,600 RBIs and 1,600 runs.

[JustinVerlander07]

Congrats to Chipper, Thome, Vlad and Hoffman on getting in. Looks like we'll get Edgar and probably Mussina in next year as holdovers.

Also, shame on the voter(s) who used their ballot to cast ballots with Carlos Lee, Livan Hernandez and Kerry Wood on them.

[JLChinn]

Ugh. #EdgarHOF2019

[Wolves4Life]

Not sure how Manny who failed two known MLB tests got more votes than Sammy Sosa who failed ZERO.

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by Wolves4Life

Not sure how Manny who failed two known MLB tests got more votes than Sammy Sosa who failed ZERO.

Manny was a far better player?

[Wolves4Life]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Congrats to Chipper, Thome, Vlad and Hoffman on getting in. Looks like we'll get Edgar and probably Mussina in next year as holdovers.

Also, shame on the voter(s) who used their ballot to cast ballots with Carlos Lee, Livan Hernandez and Kerry Wood on them.

Kerry Wood could of been a HOF'er (not 1st year obviously) if Dusty Baker didn't ruin him.

[Wolves4Life]

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

Manny was a far better player?

Cause of Steroids, Sure.

[Homerun]

So happy Thome made it on the first try.

Legend on and off the field.

[Verufian]

Originally Posted by JLChinn

Ugh. #EdgarHOF2019

He’ll get in next year. The last 10 people who received 70-74.9% got in the year after. It’s a shame he isn’t in yet.

[AnthonyCorona]

Glad to see Hoffman made it but really thought Edger would get it this year.

Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk

[JustinVerlander07]

Originally Posted by Wolves4Life

Cause of Steroids, Sure.

When did Manny start using? Do you know Sosa didn't? No? Cool.

Manny had a wRC+ 30 points higher, obviously defense or base running aren't going to be in Sosa's favor. The ONLY attribute he had was a large home run total, that was it, literally. Manny was one of the best right handed hitters in the game.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by mfw13

The bigger issue for me is the fact that Bud Selig was inducted.

How can you punish players for using steroids, but at the same time reward the commissioner who turned a blind eye to the whole sordid affair because it benefited the owners in the form of higher attendance and TV ratings?

You can't have it both ways....i.e. tacitly allowing steroids by not putting your proverbial foot down, and then punishing players for it after the fact.

Same way Goodell will get in NFL one day

[HOFAutoRookies]

‪WOW!!! What a HoF class!!! Yes, I did tear up. Chipper was one of my favorites ever, so happy with the results and so blessed to have seen these guys play! Thome was an absolute joy to watch on and off the field. And Vlady!? Hell yeah!

Wish Johan got a few more but understandable. I don't believe he's a one and done ballot candidate a HoF'er but wish he could have stayed on another year.

[Cavaliercards]

Originally Posted by Wolves4Life

Not sure how Manny who failed two known MLB tests got more votes than Sammy Sosa who failed ZERO.

Congress and Manny isn't banned from his former team until he comes clean, Sosa is

[Cavaliercards]

Really glad Chipper got in.

[JLChinn]

Originally Posted by Verufian

He’ll get in next year. The last 10 people who received 70-74.9% got in the year after. It’s a shame he isn’t in yet.

He was like +12% this year and he'll for sure be in next year. I just hate how it'll take him the full 10. He deserves to be in