beating a dead horse - PWCC and shilling

[slugger3469]

PWCC has a card for auction that I have been waiting a LONG time to come up.

It's a 10 day auction, started 11/3. On 11/6 a bid was placed. Couple more have come in since.

I just happened to remember folks on here talking about how ridiculous PWCC & Probstein are with shilling, so I decided to check on bid history just to see. Wow. Just wow. They aren't even trying to hide it at this point...

The person who placed the 1st bid has a 100% bid history w/ PWCC, and has placed 731 bids on 127 different items in the last 30 days. If the isn't the text book definition of shill bidding, someone show me what is.

The high bidder right now has a 77% bid history, 84 bids on 79 items in 30 days. In fact, there's only 1 bidder who doesn't have a 52%+ bid history.

The part that irks me the most is that I'm still going to bid because I NEED this card, but that I'm probably going to pay a good bit more for it that I should have.

And as we all know, there are no repercussions for sellers like PWCC for pulling crap like this.

Rant over. Thanks for reading my venting session.

[hairyharold]

PWCC isn't the one shilling. it's the people who are consigning that item

[HOFAutoRookies]

PWCC tries to do a great job blocking them from bidding. Maybe they weren't aware yet.

And, you don't NEED a card.

[tchronis24]

Originally Posted by HOFAutoRookies

PWCC tries to do a great job blocking them from bidding. Maybe they weren't aware yet.

And, you don't NEED a card.

You know what he means.

[Archangel1775]

From another thread......maybe report them to PWCC and eBay?

My name is Betsy Huigens; Brent and I own PWCC Auctions. Our company has always considered the integrity of our auctions our number one priority. We take a proactive approach towards monitoring bidders and have taken action when appropriate. The purpose of this post is to announce the next phase of policing. I've historically monitored and managed our comments on the message boards (like this one), so I know how important auction integrity is to the collecting community. It gives me great personal satisfaction to take the next step in ensuring our venue is the most trusted and honest marketplace in the world.

As members of the eBay selling community, we don't operate in a vacuum. The same independence of software that offers transparency and protects maximum bids also somewhat constrains our ability to make quick, sweeping change. Having said that, our relationship with eBay has allowed us to convey the importance of auction integrity to the right people and are excited by the action eBay has taken. Specifically, starting with our last auction (Premier Auction #7) eBay began a "pilot" project with PWCC specifically enabling us to take action when we notice a concerning bidder.

In close partnership with eBay, we are formally announcing the following policy which we will employ to monitor bidding, effective immediately. Considering our policy, we reserve the right to contact users whose behavior falls outside this policy, and in some cases, with the support of eBay we will restrict bidding privileges and eBay may even issue suspensions on specific user IDs from the eBay marketplace.

Bid Retractions:

The overwhelming majority of bid retractions are in violation of eBay's stated policy. With few exceptions, all bid retractions on a PWCC auction are reported to eBay and result in an eBay-issued warning. A second retraction will result in that user ID being blocked from further participation in PWCC auction and eBay suspending bidding privileges for a period of time across the eBay platform. A third retraction will result in permanent suspension from eBay. Please spread the word.

eBay wide, any user ID that has a high number of bid retractions on the eBay platform will be blocked from participating in PWCC auctions. We believe that the majority of users who abuse the bid retraction tool will cease this behavior. We have to establish a starting point, so to start any user ID we identify that has greater than 25 bid retractions over the past six month will be blocked from participating in PWCC auctions. Any user ID we identify with between 10 and 25 retractions will be notified of our policy and warned. In time, we plan to reduce the allowed number of retractions to 10 , and perhaps as low as five. Note: a user's bid retraction count is not a statistic we can automatically filter; we appreciate the help of the collecting community in identifying user IDs which how quantities beyond our defined limits.

String Bidding:

String bidding is a new term we've coined to define a series of sequential bids at the eBay minimum bid increment. This practice can be perceived as bid manipulation because it increases the odds of a bidder exposing the maximum bid of another bidder without becoming the high bidder him or herself. Any instances of string bidding will be flagged and bidders warned and logged. Subsequent infractions may result in that user ID being blocked.

Unpaid Items:

As has been the policy for several years, any unpaid item on a PWCC auction results in a permanent block of that user ID from participating in PWCC auctions.
Additionally, any user id which has two or more unpaid item strikes across the eBay platform are filtered and restricted from bidding with PWCC.

The time has come for us to respect this hobby as a commodities marketplace. Since implementing this policy last month we have already placed blocks on over 50 user IDs. It is our belief that the majority of bidders whose behavior falls outside our policy are otherwise reliable and considerate members of the trading card marketplace. As such, it is our strong belief that in due time, problematic behavior will become a thing of the past. We encourage other eBay sellers to take a similar stance and aid us in supporting the integrity of the eBay platform.

Again, the integrity of our auctions is our number one priority. We ask that the collecting community on this board an others assist PWCC in identifying concerning bid behavior on any of our auctions. Please notify PWCC of any suspicious behavior by sending an email to bidmonitoring@pwccauctions.com. I can be reached at betsy@pwccauctions.com if you have any questions, comments, or suggestions. We thank everyone for their commitment to the hobby.

Thank you for your kind assistance in this process.

Betsy Huigens
PWCC Auctions, LLC
PWCC Auctions eBay Broker
betsy@pwccauctions.com

[kyle1707]

Originally Posted by hairyharold

PWCC isn't the one shilling. it's the people who are consigning that item

its a scam and everyone knows it including eBay... PWCC and consigners


I would be shocked if 50% of what they sell actually sells...

[TarjetasBéisbol]

Originally Posted by HOFAutoRookies

PWCC tries to do a great job blocking them from bidding. Maybe they weren't aware yet.

And, you don't NEED a card.

Originally Posted by tchronis24

You know what he means.

Yes we know what he means but using the word "NEED" and adding the caps is just ridiculous. That is the problem with some collectors, they think they actually need something when it is only a want. Learn how to let cards go and your entire outlook on collecting will totally change and you will feel so much better.

[duwal]

Originally Posted by kyle1707

its a scam and everyone knows it including eBay... PWCC and consigners

[mjohnatgt]

Send Brent a message pointing out the particulars. Oddly enough, they cannot see the bid percentage; it's hidden from sellers.

[kapper]

PWCC is such #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@ - its comical. I sold off 150 high end cards last month with them - 50% of the cards ultimately didn't sell because buyers didn't pay. Every auction that didn't receive payment had a 100% feedback, had a high % of sales with PWCC and all of them didn't pay.

PWCC allows this to happen and allow the market to artificially inflate the perceived value of the cards they sell.

The prices on ebay are a joke and often are not representative of what the market value is

[NeedChapmans]

Originally Posted by kapper

PWCC is such #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@ - its comical. I sold off 150 high end cards last month with them - 50% of the cards ultimately didn't sell because buyers didn't pay. Every auction that didn't receive payment had a 100% feedback, had a high % of sales with PWCC and all of them didn't pay.

PWCC allows this to happen and allow the market to artificially inflate the perceived value of the cards they sell.

The prices on ebay are a joke and often are not representative of what the market value is

Can you provide a few links to some of the cards that did not sell (but their auctions closed)?

I'd like to take a look at them ...

[mjohnatgt]

If Brent holds true to his word, all of those bidders will now be suspended from bidding in future PWCC auctions. Let's see if the bark is as good as the bite.

[THE(NEXT)LEVEL]

Originally Posted by kapper

PWCC is such #@#@#@#@#@#@#@#@ - its comical. I sold off 150 high end cards last month with them - 50% of the cards ultimately didn't sell because buyers didn't pay. Every auction that didn't receive payment had a 100% feedback, had a high % of sales with PWCC and all of them didn't pay.

PWCC allows this to happen and allow the market to artificially inflate the perceived value of the cards they sell.

The prices on ebay are a joke and often are not representative of what the market value is

That's an inordinate amount to not sell. Really raises the red flag of potential "professional" shillers inflating these auctions. Maybe its not always the consignor who shills their cards.

[BGT Masters]

Originally Posted by HOFAutoRookies

PWCC tries to do a great job blocking them from bidding. Maybe they weren't aware yet.

And, you don't NEED a card.

If you want to be "that guy" technically he does need the card. Whether you use need as a noun or verb it still fits. He needs a particular card because its very important to him. Or circumstances in which it is a necessary. If someone is trying to complete a player PC or a set and its a rare card or a 1/1 it then becomes important to them to get a rare or one of a kind card to complete the set. Just because his need isn't one such as food, or oxygen doesn't mean he cannot say he needs something.

[mfw13]

With all due respect, the blame for shilling should be placed on the unethical people who shill their own auctions.

As far as I know, Brent does not have enough employees to monitor the bidding and bidders on every single auction he runs, nor should he be expected to. That should be EBay's job.

And for anybody who is really bothered by shilling, simply use a sniping service. You can't be shilled if nobody knows until there is 1 second left in the auction what your high bid is.

[babybull]

Originally Posted by slugger3469

PWCC has a card for auction that I have been waiting a LONG time to come up.

It's a 10 day auction, started 11/3. On 11/6 a bid was placed. Couple more have come in since.

I just happened to remember folks on here talking about how ridiculous PWCC & Probstein are with shilling, so I decided to check on bid history just to see. Wow. Just wow. They aren't even trying to hide it at this point...

The person who placed the 1st bid has a 100% bid history w/ PWCC, and has placed 731 bids on 127 different items in the last 30 days. If the isn't the text book definition of shill bidding, someone show me what is.

The high bidder right now has a 77% bid history, 84 bids on 79 items in 30 days. In fact, there's only 1 bidder who doesn't have a 52%+ bid history.

The part that irks me the most is that I'm still going to bid because I NEED this card, but that I'm probably going to pay a good bit more for it that I should have.

And as we all know, there are no repercussions for sellers like PWCC for pulling crap like this.

Rant over. Thanks for reading my venting session.

If bidders stop buying their cards, that is the biggest repercussion that can be handed out.

[kapper]

PWCC is used to inflate high card prices.

Perfect example is the 1986 Fleer Jordan Rookie PSA 10

These auctions are run up and the auctions are never paid for. No bad feedback can be given to the buyer and vintage card prices / PSA records the sale in their price guides.

The Jordan's over the summer were all selling for 30k+ - I knew multiple people trying to sell the same cards and all had the same experience.

[kapper]

Originally Posted by THE(NEXT)LEVEL

That's an inordinate amount to not sell. Really raises the red flag of potential "professional" shillers inflating these auctions. Maybe its not always the consignor who shills their cards.

God as my witness - I've never bid on ANY of my own auctions that have been sold through PWCC (or any other auction period!)

[Bhenry4]

The issue is that it isn't the owner of the card that is shilling. It's people with the same card that are bidding up these auction to inflate the value of their own card.

[mfw13]

The simplest solution would be to ban any ID with more than one bid retraction per year. Honest buyers almost never retract bids (I've had to retract one bid in 17 years of buying on EBay).

The stated standard of 10-25 every six months is way too lenient.

[kapper]

Originally Posted by Bhenry4

The issue is that it isn't the owner of the card that is shilling. It's people with the same card that are bidding up these auction to inflate the value of their own card.

it's both but I agree with you that same card owners are equally responsible

[rutgersjpm]

They should just make an accounts nonpayment percentage more public public and give sellers the ability to give negatives for nonpayment. Problem is, shilling means more money for eBay.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[mfw13]

If is something which annoys you that much, either contact Brent on Blowout, or send them an email (Betsy's email is upthread, and Brent's is easy to figure out).

[dodgerfanjohn]

Originally Posted by kapper

PWCC is used to inflate high card prices.

Perfect example is the 1986 Fleer Jordan Rookie PSA 10

These auctions are run up and the auctions are never paid for. No bad feedback can be given to the buyer and vintage card prices / PSA records the sale in their price guides.

The Jordan's over the summer were all selling for 30k+ - I knew multiple people trying to sell the same cards and all had the same experience.

I don't understand this. $30k seems an amount worth suing over. Of course it becomes difficult if the bidders are outside the US.

[kapper]

Originally Posted by dodgerfanjohn

I don't understand this. $30k seems an amount worth suing over. Of course it becomes difficult if the bidders are outside the US.

It's Brent's auction - he's not suing anyone! I don't blame him - he needs to keep the circus going.