1986 Fleer Sealed pack Value help.

[daviswr7]

I can't seem to get any pricing information on these packs down in vintage so I guess I'll take my question here. What would you pay for these packs? A local guy is looking to sell. He's had them for quite a while..thoughts?




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[FoxSportsCards]

GAI 9 sold for $800....Literally 30 seconds to find the auction and enter the info into watch count.

[daviswr7]

Originally Posted by FoxSportsCards

GAI 9 sold for $800....Literally 30 seconds to find the auction and enter the info into watch count.

good info. never actually had heard of watch count till now. thx

[Murphy8276]

The Jordan sticker back one is worth almost twice as much than the others. The from a full box is cool but hard to trust GAI so I would guess fair for you to break even minimum would be 600-700 for the 3 without jordan sticker and probably 1k-1200 for that one. That way you leave yourself room on each pack shall you have to liquidate.

[BigZigBoom]

I don't trust packs from GAI

[mfw13]

Originally Posted by BigZigBoom

I don't trust packs from GAI

New label should not be trusted.

Old label are fine....they were grading packs long before PSA got into the game....

[COMCMax]

Originally Posted by BigZigBoom

I don't trust packs from GAI

I would stay far away from anything with the new GAI label in the OP's post.

If you decide to go with GAI packs look for the "from a full box" notation with this old label. They were pretty strict/legit in their early stages.

1986 Fleer Basketball Unopened Wax Pack From a Full Box GAI

PS: buying any random single pack is a gamble IMO...graded or not.

[Murphy8276]

Show us the backs and the corners if you can.

[MJGOAT23]

Originally Posted by COMCMax

I would stay far away from anything with the new GAI label in the OP's post.

If you decide to go with GAI packs look for the "from a full box" notation with this old label. They were pretty strict/legit in their early stages.

1986 Fleer Basketball Unopened Wax Pack From a Full Box GAI

PS: buying any random single pack is a gamble IMO...graded or not.

Agreed. I think the prevailing theory out there is that even if it is a legit, unopened pack, it's a left over pack from a box where the Jordans were already pulled or screened for.

[daviswr7]

Here is the back to the 3 from a full box 8.5...I'll get the Other one pictured next week...how's it look?




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[COMCMax]

Originally Posted by MJGOAT23

Agreed. I think the prevailing theory out there is that even if it is a legit, unopened pack, it's a left over pack from a box where the Jordans were already pulled or screened for.

I might invest in some unopen 90's basketball wax/packs at the rate blowout members have ripping through it...it's gonna be harder to find than 1986 boxes of fleer by the end of year lol

[BigZigBoom]

Originally Posted by mfw13

New label should not be trusted.

Old label are fine....they were grading packs long before PSA got into the game....

Why do you say that the old labels should be fine? I am not questioning your opinion, but only looking for the information that you have.

[COMCMax]

Saw this today and it made me think of this thread. Wouldn't the sequence/pattern these boxes are known for make this impossible or were the stickers randomly inserted?

1986 FLEER WAX PACK - PSA 7 - MICHAEL JORDAN RC FRONT / STICKER BACK

[Jasondr91]

Originally Posted by COMCMax

Saw this today and it made me think of this thread. Wouldn't the sequence/pattern these boxes are known for make this impossible or were the stickers randomly inserted?

1986 FLEER WAX PACK - PSA 7 - MICHAEL JORDAN RC FRONT / STICKER BACK

As I understand it, YES...this is impossible. I've always said, all it takes is someone with a clean wrapper, a fake #57.....a poorly centered sticker.....a hot iron, and that bad boy is resealed!

[Murphy8276]

Originally Posted by COMCMax

Saw this today and it made me think of this thread. Wouldn't the sequence/pattern these boxes are known for make this impossible or were the stickers randomly inserted?

1986 FLEER WAX PACK - PSA 7 - MICHAEL JORDAN RC FRONT / STICKER BACK

Why do you say this impossible? All of the stickers are random in a box. You will get 3 of each but 3 players will have 4. The sequence is only for the base set "66". Please explain if you could your thoughts on this, but I believe this has already been verified as possible.

Originally Posted by Jasondr91

As I understand it, YES...this is impossible. I've always said, all it takes is someone with a clean wrapper, a fake #57.....a poorly centered sticker.....a hot iron, and that bad boy is resealed!

I don't believe BBCE would let that pack get through. He does not just look at the pack with plain sight and fingerprints are nearly impossible to hide in key areas that would exist due to a machine at a factory doing the wax job. The corners are also very difficult considering they have wax also in most cases in small amounts. I think he can be fooled, but I would say it is less than 1% of the time and this pack would have been extremely scrutinized.

[Jasondr91]

Originally Posted by Murphy8276

Why do you say this impossible? All of the stickers are random in a box. You will get 3 of each but 3 players will have 4. The sequence is only for the base set "66". Please explain if you could your thoughts on this, but I believe this has already been verified as possible.

I don't believe BBCE would let that pack get through. He does not just look at the pack with plain sight and fingerprints are nearly impossible to hide in key areas that would exist due to a machine at a factory doing the wax job. The corners are also very difficult considering they have wax also in most cases in small amounts. I think he can be fooled, but I would say it is less than 1% of the time and this pack would have been extremely scrutinized.

I'm not sure where BBCE comes into play here. Is this their eBay ID? Some nice items, but some of the super high end listings have some crappy photos if so. That specific graded pack doesn't state it came from Steve, a full box, nada. Why NOT list that? And for THAT price? Steve knows his name is trusted in the hobby. If this is his, he needs to edit that description pronto. His relevance and connection to such an item will give a premium as the only trusted "COA" if you will. People have already discovered fake PSA labels exist, as do the ability even though rare, for PSA slabs to have been compremised. I'd trust that eBay item like a Kardashian marriage proposal.

[COMCMax]

Originally Posted by Murphy8276

Why do you say this impossible? All of the stickers are random in a box. You will get 3 of each but 3 players will have 4. The sequence is only for the base set "66". Please explain if you could your thoughts on this, but I believe this has already been verified as possible

I was under the impression the sequence applied to the stickers to ,but after doing some digging I see it could be possible if I'm reading this right. Quoted from another site.

A complete, unsearched box yields 3 or 4 Jordans, no more, no less. For that matter, it yields 3 or 4 of every card, no more, no less. Fleer's collation was excellent during the 80s basketball years.

36 packs per box x 12 cards per pack = 432 cards per box

432 cards per box divided by 132 cards per set = 3.27 sets per box

So in addition to getting three sets per box, there's a 27% chance of finding a fourth Jordan, Barkley, Ewing, etc. This math holds true for the stickers as well. Since the mid 70s when Topps went to a single series printing through the 90s when short prints were introduced back into the hobby, it has been all about the math. You simply cannot average a Rickey Henderson rookie per 1980 Topps wax box; the math does not support it. You can't average a Griffey rookie per 1989 Upper Deck wax box (low or high); the math does not support it, no matter how bad the collation is.

The cards fall in two parallel reverse alphabetical order sequence, alternating cards, 66 cards apart. Not counting the sticker (which is randomly paired with the 12 cards, but still follows the same mathematical insertion rate), starting from the top card (face up, next to the gum).

[Murphy8276]

Originally Posted by Jasondr91

I'm not sure where BBCE comes into play here. Is this their eBay ID? Some nice items, but some of the super high end listings have some crappy photos if so. That specific graded pack doesn't state it came from Steve, a full box, nada. Why NOT list that? And for THAT price? Steve knows his name is trusted in the hobby. If this is his, he needs to edit that description pronto. His relevance and connection to such an item will give a premium as the only trusted "COA" if you will. People have already discovered fake PSA labels exist, as do the ability even though rare, for PSA slabs to have been compremised. I'd trust that eBay item like a Kardashian marriage proposal.

Steve (BBCE) is the sole grader for packs for PSA. They send every pack they get to him in bulk and he authenticates and assigns the grade. I was told this by PSA that it never is done by anyone else. Beyond that, I have never seen a PSA pack grading slab compromised, but I think the no frosting would solve that worry. But Steve definitely 100% authenticated this pack. There is another posting somewhere else on a forum where a poster was telling a story about such a great surprise when they opened a front and back jordan pack--only to later be made aware they through 20k down the drain (although no recent sales of that pack--and the jordans were still graded likely 7-8s).

[COMCMax]

Originally Posted by Murphy8276

Steve (BBCE) is the sole grader for packs for PSA. They send every pack they get to him in bulk and he authenticates and assigns the grade. I was told this by PSA that it never is done by anyone else. Beyond that, I have never seen a PSA pack grading slab compromised, but I think the no frosting would solve that worry. But Steve definitely 100% authenticated this pack. There is another posting somewhere else on a forum where a poster was telling a story about such a great surprise when they opened a front and back jordan pack--only to later be made aware they through 20k down the drain (although no recent sales of that pack--and the jordans were still graded likely 7-8s).

Learn something new everyday. Must keep him busy.

One a side note. Wasn't GAI started by a PSA bigwig/grader that was pretty high up the chain?

[Jasondr91]

Originally Posted by Murphy8276

Steve (BBCE) is the sole grader for packs for PSA. They send every pack they get to him in bulk and he authenticates and assigns the grade. I was told this by PSA that it never is done by anyone else. Beyond that, I have never seen a PSA pack grading slab compromised, but I think the no frosting would solve that worry. But Steve definitely 100% authenticated this pack. There is another posting somewhere else on a forum where a poster was telling a story about such a great surprise when they opened a front and back jordan pack--only to later be made aware they through 20k down the drain (although no recent sales of that pack--and the jordans were still graded likely 7-8s).

Thanks for the info here! Now you mention it, I think I did recall hearing Steve does grade the packs. Duh on my part. Wasn't aware that ONLY he grades them. Very interesting! Thanks again!

[Archangel1775]

I believe Steve only authenticates packs, ships them back and PSA assigns the actual grade

[Murphy8276]

Originally Posted by Archangel1775

I believe Steve only authenticates packs, ships them back and PSA assigns the actual grade

PSA told me Steve recommends the grade also and they would rarely if ever skew from his advice. Even if you send a pack in for review it will take 55 business days to go to Steve for that very reason.