Pwcc shilling

[Vladfan1990]

Their shill bidding is so bad, what can anyone do to finally stop it, just about every auction they run is shill bid, A Stef PSA 10 chrome sold for like 3100, exact same card like 9 days later sold for 2200 by pwcc, guess they forgot to shill the 2200 dollar one. When you look at bid history pretty much all of the highest bidders bid more than 50 percent with pwcc, so if people are bidding on their own cards and winning they should be getting strikes for not paying.

[3124508 on COMC]

I'm fairly confident PWCC gives buyers strikes. I'm also fairly confident they block NPB. Lastly, I'm confident that they have more than just a few loyal customers.

[Vladfan1990]

then how do you explain all the crazy high bid percentages time and time again, thats all they buy from is pwcc, one guy on here posted earlier someone was winning pwcc auctions last 84 bids 79 were pwcc, everyone thought Maestro was doing things the right way until he got busted, I think pwcc and probstein are doing the same thing, if they were blocking bidders why do the same bidders keep being allowed to bid

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by Vladfan1990

then how do you explain all the crazy high bid percentages time and time again, thats all they buy from is pwcc, one guy on here posted earlier someone was winning pwcc auctions last 84 bids 79 were pwcc, everyone thought Maestro was doing things the right way until he got busted, I think pwcc and probstein are doing the same thing, if they were blocking bidders why do the same bidders keep being allowed to bid

Your making an assumption that these bidders aren’t paying.

[Vladfan1990]

i know from experience they dont pay I have sent to pwcc, people weren't paying with Maestro took them a long time to get caught

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by Vladfan1990

i know from experience they dont pay I have sent to pwcc, people weren't paying with Maestro took them a long time to get caught

Can you show where a NPB on one of your auctions was bidding with PWCC subsequent to your auction's pay period closing? That would be interesting.

[Vladfan1990]

go look at most of the high dollars isn't that hard to see the trend, i'm watching 3 high dollar ones that are live i bet top 3 bidders in each all have atleast 40 percent of their bids with pwcc, i buy a good amount on ebay and my bid activity with one seller would probably be like 4 percent max

[rcmb3220]

Originally Posted by Vladfan1990

i know from experience they dont pay I have sent to pwcc, people weren't paying with Maestro took them a long time to get caught

The way I read your sentence it sounds like you’ve shilled your own items in pwcc auctions. You might want to clarify that.

[shrevecity]

Sure there are consignors who are shilling their items, however there is nothing PWCC or Ebay can do to stop that it is the nature of consignment. They also have buyers who only buy from them and are legit just like Target has buyers who only buy from them when Wal-Mart has the same item much cheaper.

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by Vladfan1990

go look at most of the high dollars isn't that hard to see the trend, i'm watching 3 high dollar ones that are live i bet top 3 bidders in each all have atleast 40 percent of their bids with pwcc, i buy a good amount on ebay and my bid activity with one seller would probably be like 4 percent max

40% is not that much. Sounds like you just got your precious feeling hurt because you got outbid. My bid % is often 80 to 90% with sellers when I buy auctions, I use mostly BIN. How many retractions do they have? Are there any instances where they retract and rebid on the same item? Those are the more important questions.

How do you know they are not paying?

[Vladfan1990]

1951 mantle psa 7 by pwcc 352584844219
last 3 sold between 22k and 27k
ended over 31k
last 2 bidders 91 and 100 percent bid activity with pwcc, nothing suspicious

[Vladfan1990]

1952 mantle psa 3.5
143114350087
last 3 like 22k to 27k this one over 30k
bid activity both under 10 percent still 3k over last

[Vladfan1990]

1952 mantle psa 5
last one sold under 37k this one 52k
57 percent bid activity for winner
thats my case clearly something isn't right wish they would let people know which items didn't get paid for

[shrevecity]

Again that is not that much. Just because it sells for more does not prove anything either. They do have some loyal buyers with deep pockets.

In the end there is nothing they can do if a consignor decides to shill an auction. There is nothing Ebay can do about it either as it is technically not shill bidding under the definition.

[chezball]

I honestly don't why anyone goes near their auctions.

[JWBlue]

People justifiably complain about it but what is the solution?

Par for the course in the Wild Wild West that is card collecting.

[13goyankees13]

Originally Posted by shrevecity

Again that is not that much. Just because it sells for more does not prove anything either. They do have some loyal buyers with deep pockets.

In the end there is nothing they can do if a consignor decides to shill an auction. There is nothing Ebay can do about it either as it is technically not shill bidding under the definition.

eBay defines shill bidding as bidding to artificially increase price, search standing, or desirability. There's no requirement that it's the same person who is selling it.

That doesn't mean ebay will put effort into looking for those types of shill bids or will even do anything about it if they know for sure it is a shill bid.

[ih8ca]

I am curious what are you saying about the 1952 topps mantle psa 5 and the 1951 Bowman psa 7 pwcc sold last night?

[Vladfan1990]

i think they are being shilled, if pwcc isn't shilling why is pwcc letting the seller list more cards, they should be telling sellers no more listing to a seller whos cards are constantly not getting paid for, always seem to be an endless supply of bidders who bid a high percentage on pwcc, Id also say as a service pwcc should make a public list of items that didnt' get paid for, instead it seems when a vintage card goes crazy high it seems like its being put into the average of the last 10 years of sales of that card, if you have a card that usuaally sells for like 20k and last 2 by pwcc sell for 30k, you have an impact on last sales

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by 13goyankees13

eBay defines shill bidding as bidding to artificially increase price, search standing, or desirability. There's no requirement that it's the same person who is selling it.

That doesn't mean ebay will put effort into looking for those types of shill bids or will even do anything about it if they know for sure it is a shill bid.

They have recently reworded that then, it used to say with the sellers knowledge. Ebay has also made it harder to catch shill bidders by hiding buyers ID and removing bid history searches. The talk is bid histories are about to become viewable only to the seller and bidders in the future.

Me and other sellers once reported a large electronics seller who had a bidder who bid on everything. He had well over 10,000 bids with 100% with the seller as well as nearly 4000 retractions. When you dug you could see the classic give away places a bid becomes the high bidder. Immediatly retracts and rebids just below the under bidders max. He would do this 3 or 4 times on some listings. Ebays response there is no evidence.

Ebay make money off shill bidding so they have no incentive to do anything.

These large consigners cannot stop consignors from bidding on their own items, but at the same time they have some loyal buyers who are willing to pay more to buy the item from them. This is a common occurrence. We see it all the time in the retail world a person would rather pay more for an item on Amazon or Target than they will for the same item at Wal-Mart.

If you don't like them the only solution is to hit the back button, they are not going anywhere anytime soon.

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by Vladfan1990

i think they are being shilled, if pwcc isn't shilling why is pwcc letting the seller list more cards, they should be telling sellers no more listing to a seller whos cards are constantly not getting paid for, always seem to be an endless supply of bidders who bid a high percentage on pwcc, Id also say as a service pwcc should make a public list of items that didnt' get paid for, instead it seems when a vintage card goes crazy high it seems like its being put into the average of the last 10 years of sales of that card, if you have a card that usuaally sells for like 20k and last 2 by pwcc sell for 30k, you have an impact on last sales

Shill bidders do not bid to win if they are they are stupid, they bid to be the second place bidder in a bidding war. This is where the retractions become a big tell. Many will bid way up then get the max bid and then retract and rebid just under the high bid.

What can they really do to stop it? Nothing really short of not taking consignments. Why do you only complain about PWCC when same thing happens with Probstein and other consignment sellers. I think that answer is obvious.

[ih8ca]

Originally Posted by Vladfan1990

i think they are being shilled, if pwcc isn't shilling why is pwcc letting the seller list more cards, they should be telling sellers no more listing to a seller whos cards are constantly not getting paid for, always seem to be an endless supply of bidders who bid a high percentage on pwcc, Id also say as a service pwcc should make a public list of items that didnt' get paid for, instead it seems when a vintage card goes crazy high it seems like its being put into the average of the last 10 years of sales of that card, if you have a card that usuaally sells for like 20k and last 2 by pwcc sell for 30k, you have an impact on last sales

I guarantee that both those cards were not shilled by the consigned. 100% guarantee. Do you know how I know. BOTH THOSE CARDS BELONG TO ME. The vintage market is very crazy and hard to understand pricing and values. I have bought and sold cards at up to 500 percent of market because they look good and see potential in the cards going up a grade or two.
I do agree that there is problems shill bidding, non pays etc. I deal in every market between $1 cards and six figure cards. I sell a lot of stuff through pwcc, because I feel they are the best platform to sell cards. I have even bought cards from major auction houses and flipped them through pwcc and doubled and tripled up on cards. In my experience is that just about all vintage cards get paid for. Modern cards is another store. I believe I get paid for 95% of my modern sales. I feel the reasons that pwcc gets the best money for cards are

1 they have great presentation of the items
2 they do a great shop at marketing
3 they offer financing/layaway/advances etc
4 they provide data to help make decisions on purchases

You can tell that a card is not paid for by looking up pwcc auction archives and searching the item. PWCC puts $.00 as a sales price on consigners reports if the item is not paid for. I am not sure about returned item. Last auction there was a 2017 topps vintage stock Aaron judge psa 10 that was canceled because there was a problem with the card after the auction closed. The item does not show up on the archives search of pwcc auctions. Type in this search 2002 sp authentic ming psa 10. The second one has a sale price of $.00
PWCC and every other consignment service are having problems with consigners shill bidding. I know that pwcc tries to monitor the bids on higher ticket items. It is hard to monitor bids on 16,000 plus items per month. The best way to protect yourself is to get a sniper program .

[Vladfan1990]

Why would he include cards that arent paid for in his recent sales where he compares cards to stocks makes no sense thats just inflating prices to make it seems like the card haa gone up alot example crosby bgs 9 cup was at 40k with days left why wasnt that listing killed

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by Vladfan1990

Why would he include cards that arent paid for in his recent sales where he compares cards to stocks makes no sense thats just inflating prices to make it seems like the card haa gone up alot example crosby bgs 9 cup was at 40k with days left why wasnt that listing killed

Sellers are charged fees to end auctions early based on the high bid. So why would he eat that fee?

[ih8ca]

Originally Posted by Vladfan1990

Why would he include cards that arent paid for in his recent sales where he compares cards to stocks makes no sense thats just inflating prices to make it seems like the card haa gone up alot example crosby bgs 9 cup was at 40k with days left why wasnt that listing killed

Why would he kill an auction left with time on it? Sounds like all you are doing is complaining that pwcc gets more money and there has to be shilling involved.