Fake Autograph Card Ring - Kobe, Harper, Mays & More...

[rogermaris]

Not sure this has ever been posted before (seems it's been going on a while) but I figured I should make a post about this just in case people are unaware.

First of all, let me say that these cards are very different from the fakes coming out of China and Taiwan. The Chinese fakes were recreated from the ground up, which is why they are so easily able to pass third party authentication -- under a microscope, they look just like the real thing for the most part.

On the other hand, these forgeries appear to be based on high quality scans of real cards, with only the foil stamping and/or holograms recreated from scratch. For this reason, I do not believe any of these fakes have passed third party grading (and I don't think they'd be able to).

That being said, it's very difficult to tell from a normal scan so be advised...

1. CONFIRMED FAKE - 2000-01 Kobe Bryant Ovation Autograph

Vast majority of these being sold on ebay are fake. Here's an example of a fake one:





Here's a real one:





2. CONFIRMED FAKE - 1996 Topps Willie Mays autograph

Vast majority of these being sold on ebay are fake. Here's an example of a fake one:



Here's a real one:





3. CONFIRMED FAKE - 2009 Upper Deck Bryce Harper

Vast majority of these being sold on ebay are fake. Here's an example of a fake one:



Here's a real one:





4. CONFIRMED FAKE - 2003 Topps Team Legends Willie Mays

They love Mays! Majority of these being sold on ebay are fake:



Here's a real one:






5. CONFIRMED FAKE - 2001 Upper Deck Legends Johnny Unitas

Here’s a fake one:



And a real one:




Although I’ve seen them being sold by many sellers (some of whom are unwitting I’m sure) there are a handful of sellers for whom these cards seem to be bread and butter. In fact, you may have noticed a common background on many of the fake cards. The cards were all listed by the same seller:



Let’s take a look at his sold listings, shall we?






Now, as guilty as this guy surely is, I don’t think he’s the only one doing this. I think there are several sellers who have gotten ahold of these fake cards and are cutting, signing, and then selling them all themselves.

I also believe that this is the tip of the iceberg. There are many other sets that I suspect are being faked, which I will be dedicating the next comment to. That being said, it can be hard to confirm since these are scans of real cards, albeit low res.

[rogermaris]

nevermind

[domin824]

I LOL'ed at all those Kobe Ovations I think it's pretty obvious for the seasoned Kobe collectors, but I feel bad for the guys who don't know his signature. Those forges are terrible!

[jubei777]

scary. thanks for the info

[majestik101]

Nice work. As for that Unitas, 2001 Upper Deck Legends is notoriously fake and it's no secret that Unitas autographs are one of the most counterfeited in the industry.

[johnyensmith123]

Originally Posted by domin824

I LOL'ed at all those Kobe Ovations I think it's pretty obvious for the seasoned Kobe collectors, but I feel bad for the guys who don't know his signature. Those forges are terrible!

So the only difference you can tell is the signature from the scans? That's still very alarming.

It's very alarming that a lot of recent autograph cards are being forged as well (like Panini) and passing BGS and PSA.

[chadwich]

Any idea how long these fakes have been around?

[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by majestik101

Nice work. As for that Unitas, 2001 Upper Deck Legends is notoriously fake and it's no secret that Unitas autographs are one of the most counterfeited in the industry.

Thank you for the info. I don't really do football so I wasn't sure how much of this information was already out there. Glad to hear the hobby is already aware of that set.

Originally Posted by johnyensmith123

So the only difference you can tell is the signature from the scans? That's still very alarming.

It's very alarming that a lot of recent autograph cards are being forged as well (like Panini) and passing BGS and PSA.

Yes, the fake Panini draft autographs definitely come to mind. But those and many of the other recent forgeries were created from the ground up, so there are lot's of issues with the cards (RC logo on panini autos is the giveaway, for instance). But that's why they are able to pass PSA -- under a microscope, they're still crisp and high res because rather than scanning the cards, the forgers recreated them from scratch.

These forgeries are created from scans, so they're identical, just lower resolution and quality. That being said, on a lot of these there are still things you can look for that give the card away without even having to look at the autograph or evaluate the quality of the image/cardstock in hand. They couldn't just scan the card and call it a day, there were still elements that have to be created from scratch, and those were the ones they messed up on.

Originally Posted by chadwich

Any idea how long these fakes have been around?

From what I can tell, the oldest are at least 3 years. The Kobe Ovation autos seem to be a bit more recent. If the Kobe Hardcourt autos are being faked, those would be within the last 6 months or a year from what I can tell. Could be totally off on that though...

[domin824]

Originally Posted by johnyensmith123

So the only difference you can tell is the signature from the scans? That's still very alarming.

It's very alarming that a lot of recent autograph cards are being forged as well (like Panini) and passing BGS and PSA.

Pretty much yes, because those cards are real I think. Real blanks i mean, Back doored blanks that someone got a hold of and signed terribly themselves..

BGS and PSA go by the card and the COA on the card itself and that's why it passes them, not really by the ink or signature itself.

[bjho852]

For the 2000-01 Ovation Kobe card, even the slabbed one looks suspicious to me.

[johnyensmith123]

Originally Posted by rogermaris

Thank you for the info. I don't really do football so I wasn't sure how much of this information was already out there. Glad to hear the hobby is already aware of that set.



Yes, the fake Panini draft autographs definitely come to mind. But those and many of the other recent forgeries were created from the ground up, so there are lot's of issues with the cards (RC logo on panini autos is the giveaway, for instance)

These forgeries are created from scans, so they're identical, just lower resolution and quality. That being said, on a lot of these there are still things you can look for that give the card away without even having to look at the autograph or evaluate the quality of the cardstock in hand. They couldn't just scan the card and call it a day, there were still elements that have to be created from scratch, and those were the ones they messed up on.



From what I can tell, at least 3 years. The Kobe Ovation autos might be a bit more recent. If the Kobe Hardcourt autos are being faked, those would be within the last 6 months or a year from what I can tell. Could be totally off on that though...

Thanks for your work and the info, really appreciate it.

[johnyensmith123]

Originally Posted by domin824

Pretty much yes, because those cards are real I think. Real blanks i mean, Back doored blanks that someone got a hold of and signed terribly themselves..

BGS and PSA go by the card and the COA on the card itself and that's why it passes them, not really by the ink or signature itself.

There was a thread about fake Panini Ingram Autos and fake copies (not backdoored) that apparently made it past BGS and PSA, so I don't think they're necessarily all backdoored. OP is suggesting that these are not backdoored blanks but rather fakes that the forgers made themselves using scans, etc.

That's why it's so alarming.

[atomant989]

scary. i actually bid on some of those kobe autos and luckily loss

man i must be blind as bat. besides closely looking at the auto i cant really tell the difference with the cards itself




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[rogermaris]

Originally Posted by domin824

Pretty much yes, because those cards are real I think. Real blanks i mean, Back doored blanks that someone got a hold of and signed terribly themselves..

BGS and PSA go by the card and the COA on the card itself and that's why it passes them, not really by the ink or signature itself.

Neither these nor the fake panini autographs being certified by PSA are blanks, unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.

These are scans of real cards that have been reprinted. The fake Panini Next Day autographs were created from the ground up by forgers.

[domin824]

Originally Posted by johnyensmith123

There was a thread about fake Panini Ingram Autos and fake copies (not backdoored) that apparently made it past BGS and PSA, so I don't think they're necessarily all backdoored. OP is suggesting that these are not backdoored blanks but rather fakes that the forgers made themselves using scans, etc.

That's why it's so alarming.

Oh I missed that part, after reading it thoroughly yes it is alarming. Only thing I can tell people is to do comparables and research the autograph of the player they're buying.

[domin824]

Here's a authentic signed copy for reference. Looks pretty obvious that the fakes are fakes!



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[bjho852]

Originally Posted by domin824

Here's a authentic signed copy for reference. Looks pretty obvious that the fakes are fakes!

Thank you. I was thinking of posting mine once I go home, when I mentioned in the previous message that even the slabbed one in the OP looks suspicious to me.

[Chain]

Thank you for this information OP.

I was in the market for some Mays autos, and noticed the difference between the autos you posted and the other ones he has. However, not really being very familiar with cards from other sports, I just shrugged it off as being explainable variance.

Thankfully I did not win any of the Mays.

On a side note, are there also a lot of fakes floating around for Jerry Rice?

[3124508 on COMC]

lyonhrt7777 sells a ton of these.

[JWBlue]

Is it true cards that are numbered are extremely difficult to counterfeit?

[GOLDPRIZM]

Thanks rogermaris for bring this up, I have been meaning to start a thread on the Kobe Ovations autos but haven't had time to dig up examples/facts. I did a quick search on the completed auctions (for Kobe Ovations autos) the other day cause I was sick of seeing them pop up left and right, at that time there was 50+ and I don't think there was even a handful of real ones. These look so bad and not even close to his auto.

I also think you are right about the Kobe Hardcourt ones as well, there are plenty of fakes for those too.

[UltimateDeron]

Originally Posted by GOLDPRIZM

Thanks rogermaris for bring this up, I have been meaning to start a thread on the Kobe Ovations autos but haven't had time to dig up examples/facts. I did a quick search on the completed auctions (for Kobe Ovations autos) the other day cause I was sick of seeing them pop up left and right, at that time there was 50+ and I don't think there was even a handful of real ones. These look so bad and not even close to his auto.

I also think you are right about the Kobe Hardcourt ones as well, there are plenty of fakes for those too.

I, too, wanted to make a thread about it but didn't really have the time to do so.

I got duped on a lot sold by one of the accounts that had 1 of each of the fakes in it.. Kobe, Mays, Unitas, Harper, Ali, etc.

I was researching the Kobe and found many and I mean MANY being sold by the same few accounts all located in the New York/New Jersey area. These accounts were all selling the same 5-6 cards.

Luckily I got my money back, but was a complete waste of time to begin with.

[corndog]

Need names of these people.
It brings needed problems for those tied to counterfeiting and those problems last a long time.

Great job OP!

[Beavers98]

Yes, Great job OP. I had bid on a few of those Ovation Autos. Glad I was outbid.

[djohn]

I knew about all the reprint fakes, which are usually easy to tell due to the feel of the card, missing foil, incorrect foil, or coloring being off. I was also aware of the bankrupcty cards and other blank cards getting fake autos added. However I had no idea they were making quality versions of autographed cards and adding autographs to them. This is going to add to my concern when buying now. Thanks