Michael Jordan 1986 Fleer RC's trimmed by Robert Block & graded PSA & BVG 10

corndog · 06-23-2019, 08:36 PM

PSA Cert #41976677

1986 Fleer Michael Jordan RC #57

Value gain of $23,013.00

This card was purchased by Robert Block with his Ebay ID of bottomdollarbuyer from PWCC as a PSA-9 on December 21, 2017 for $3,583.00. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1591686
Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-10 for $26,600.00 on March 20, 2019. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1956079

Regarding the Jordan 1986 Fleers, every one of those cards are capable of being traced due to the C1S stock used to print them with. On the back side, most of the printing was done using screened dots. When screened "blocks" are printing on uncoated stock, it never lays down smooth like coated stock. The paper substrate, when looked at with a loupe, has peaks and valleys that make the screened image lay down with differing pressure. The waves, ripples, dark/light effects are caused by these peaks and valleys. In printing, one of the more common terms for this appearance is that it looks "mottled". If you look at the entirety of the back of the Jordan posted below you can see much more of this effect than what I marked.

With a lot of time, many of the 10's can be traced back to originally being graded as 9's or 8's. Once you match the back you can then look at the front to see what changed.

Note: Robert Block's masked buying ID on VCP is m***b. This has been confirmed through various sources and means of tracking. Block has purchased an enormous amount of Beckett and PSA graded 1986 Jordans and it will take quite some time to find them as I am also involved with the PWCC/Moser scandal. I will try to add to this list as I find them.

This is what a Robert Block purchase looks like on VCP:

Yellow squares are print and/or fiber identifiers.
Red squares identify a very slight trim at the bottom that got rid of most of the chipping. He took probably .010 to .015 thousandths off with the trim. It is that minimal.

3124508 on COMC · 06-23-2019, 08:53 PM

F Robert Block.

I'll pull this sub shortly.

Also will work on a thread for some crowd-sourced whack-a-mole.

mindcycle · 06-23-2019, 09:01 PM

Excellent work, thanks for sharing. This dude really needs to be arrested and charged with fraud. I hope we see that happening soon.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

3124508 on COMC · 06-23-2019, 09:02 PM

m***b purchases of Fleer Jordan RCs per VCP:

PSA 7: 26
PSA 7.5: 4
PSA 8: 82
PSA 8.5: 7
PSA 9: 75
PSA 10: 0

BGS 8: 11
BGS 8.5: 36
BGS 9: 49
BGS 9.5: 2 (These were purchases from PWCC and Block's friend dmarcus8. Probably shill buys if I had to guess.)

babyfaceposey · 06-23-2019, 09:06 PM

Insane. How these guys are not locked up yet is a disgrace.

corndog · 06-23-2019, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3124508 on COMC

F Robert Block.

I'll pull this sub shortly.

Also will work on a thread for some crowd-sourced whack-a-mole.

41976677 PSA-10 (the card above^^^
41976678 PSA-10 sold by PWCC on 01/30/19 for $21,100.00
41976679 PSA-10 sold by PWCC on 03/31/19 for $28,300.00

3124508 on COMC · 06-23-2019, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corndog

41976677 PSA-10 (the card above^^^
41976678 PSA-10 sold by PWCC on 01/30/19 for $21,100.00
41976679 PSA-10 sold by PWCC on 03/31/19 for $28,300.00

Yep. Working on it now.

3124508 on COMC · 06-23-2019, 09:19 PM

41976677 1986-87 Fleer Jordan 10 PWCC
41976678 1986-87 Fleer Jordan 10 PWCC
41976679 1986-87 Fleer Jordan 10 PWCC
41976680 1969 Topps Reggie Jackson 4 PWCC
41976681 1989 Upper Deck Griffey 10 PWCC
41976682 1989 Bowman Tiffany Griffey 9 No Sale
41976683 1987-88 Fleer Jordan 9 No Sale
41976684 1986-87 Fleer Sticker Jordan 8 No Sale
41976685 1986-87 Fleer Sticker Jordan 10 PWCC
41976686 1981 Topps Montana 8 No Sale
41976687 1981 Topps Montana 8 No Sale
41976688 1986-87 Fleer Barkley 10 No Sale
41976689 1986-87 Fleer Mullin 8.5 No Sale
41976690 1986-87 Fleer Barkley 10 PWCC
41976691 1986-87 Fleer Barkley 10 PWCC
41976692 1986-87 Fleer Wilkins 10 No Sale

AbraCalabro · 06-23-2019, 09:23 PM

dmarcus8 does more than just shill buying

http://www.hobbykings.com/forum/view...e8f89bf02bb73b

6celtics33 · 06-23-2019, 09:28 PM

3 PSA 10 Jordans from one submitter didn’t set off any red flags I guess

And they say a 10 has to get approved by multiple people right?

KhalDrogo · 06-23-2019, 09:42 PM

This is the kind of catalyst needed to keep this moving. A bunch of tainted PSA 10 Fleer Jordan will attract a new pool of collectors. Excellent work guys.

ThoseBackPages · 06-23-2019, 09:55 PM

horrible!

ThoseBackPages · 06-23-2019, 09:56 PM

is he soaking them? the 10 fills more of the slab then the 9 does

superdan49 · 06-23-2019, 09:58 PM

This could be a huge story. Keep it up, friends.

KhalDrogo · 06-23-2019, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

is he soaking them? the 10 fills more of the slab then the 9 does

The 9 sits under the border guard just a little bit on the bottom.

shakobe · 06-23-2019, 10:04 PM

Clearly there was trimming done from the PSA 9 to the PSA 10 especially the corners but what i would like to add is that anyone else notice how the edges of the 10 show clear whitening? How does that pass the grader’sscrutiny? Is there some sort of insider issue with PSA as well?

Springerj23 · 06-23-2019, 10:19 PM

Big fish have a clear advantage with PSA. If that is not known, you are lying to yourself. I appreciate the detectives on here, and hope they are correct in their findings. The serial numbered stuff is obvious and quite easy. This here, not so much. I don’t doubt their findings, but it is not concrete. The theories are just that and until somebody catches these people in the act, it won’t stop. What I am getting at is this would not hold up in court of law. It’s not what you know, or the the truth, it’s what you can prove. Until one of these clowns admits their guilts, it won’t stop....
Could end up ruining the hobby...

ThoseBackPages · 06-23-2019, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

The 9 sits under the border guard just a little bit on the bottom.

yea, i see that, but still. may still be within requirements

mk6283 · 06-23-2019, 10:43 PM

I suspected this was happening with the 86 Fleer rookie. The price jump from a PSA 9 to PSA 10 was far too enticing for the crooks. This is probably just the tip of the iceberg. Outstanding work OP.

The emergence of PSA/BGS has caused collectors to put far too much of an emphasis on technical grades. The focus of the hobby needs to shift to rarity, with technical grades being a far secondary factor in valuation. The main benefit of slabs should be authentication and protection—hopefully the grading companies can try to get that part right.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

theLUCKYshow · 06-23-2019, 11:09 PM

Unbelievable work!

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

ilikenicecards · 06-23-2019, 11:37 PM

Also the premium for PSA 10s is completely ridiculous. Some people like to waste money.

drobfan8 · 06-24-2019, 12:15 AM

These jerks should do prison time.

Although even the Wolf of Wall street top dog scumbags ripping millions and millions only end up getting 2 years, and not hard time.

Scum of the earth

15ncounting · 06-24-2019, 12:17 AM

I blame PSA!

mc1 · 06-24-2019, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThoseBackPages

yea, i see that, but still. may still be within requirements

That’s cute. You actually think they even measure the cards when they grade them.

regularp · 06-24-2019, 12:39 AM

So there's a fleck of white like a printer mark above the yellow border near the top right of the card that's showing in the 9 and not in the 10. Same with a speck near his right elbow in the middle of the card.

Are those just from the scan?

06-23-2019, 08:36 PM	#1
corndog BODA Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: From a table in McDonalds, with lovely fake flowers on it. Posts: 14,706	Michael Jordan 1986 Fleer RC's trimmed by Robert Block & graded PSA & BVG 10 PSA Cert #41976677 1986 Fleer Michael Jordan RC #57 Value gain of $23,013.00 This card was purchased by Robert Block with his Ebay ID of bottomdollarbuyer from PWCC as a PSA-9 on December 21, 2017 for $3,583.00. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1591686 Same card was sold by PWCC as a PSA-10 for $26,600.00 on March 20, 2019. PWCC Marketplace link: https://www.pwccmarketplace.com/items/1956079 Regarding the Jordan 1986 Fleers, every one of those cards are capable of being traced due to the C1S stock used to print them with. On the back side, most of the printing was done using screened dots. When screened "blocks" are printing on uncoated stock, it never lays down smooth like coated stock. The paper substrate, when looked at with a loupe, has peaks and valleys that make the screened image lay down with differing pressure. The waves, ripples, dark/light effects are caused by these peaks and valleys. In printing, one of the more common terms for this appearance is that it looks "mottled". If you look at the entirety of the back of the Jordan posted below you can see much more of this effect than what I marked. With a lot of time, many of the 10's can be traced back to originally being graded as 9's or 8's. Once you match the back you can then look at the front to see what changed. Note: Robert Block's masked buying ID on VCP is m*b. This has been confirmed through various sources and means of tracking. Block has purchased an enormous amount of Beckett and PSA graded 1986 Jordans and it will take quite some time to find them as I am also involved with the PWCC/Moser scandal. I will try to add to this list as I find them. This is what a Robert Block purchase looks like on VCP: Yellow squares are print and/or fiber identifiers. Red squares identify a very slight trim at the bottom that got rid of most of the chipping. He took probably .010 to .015 thousandths off with the trim. It is that minimal. __________________ He has no rival, He has no equal.** Last edited by corndog; 08-01-2019 at 06:10 AM.

06-23-2019, 08:53 PM	#2
3124508 on COMC BODA Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 9,129	F Robert Block. I'll pull this sub shortly. Also will work on a thread for some crowd-sourced whack-a-mole. __________________ 3124508@protonmail.com The Short Guide to the PWCC Card Trimming & Alteration Fraud

06-23-2019, 09:19 PM	#8
3124508 on COMC BODA Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 9,129	41976677 1986-87 Fleer Jordan 10 PWCC 41976678 1986-87 Fleer Jordan 10 PWCC 41976679 1986-87 Fleer Jordan 10 PWCC 41976680 1969 Topps Reggie Jackson 4 PWCC 41976681 1989 Upper Deck Griffey 10 PWCC 41976682 1989 Bowman Tiffany Griffey 9 No Sale 41976683 1987-88 Fleer Jordan 9 No Sale 41976684 1986-87 Fleer Sticker Jordan 8 No Sale 41976685 1986-87 Fleer Sticker Jordan 10 PWCC 41976686 1981 Topps Montana 8 No Sale 41976687 1981 Topps Montana 8 No Sale 41976688 1986-87 Fleer Barkley 10 No Sale 41976689 1986-87 Fleer Mullin 8.5 No Sale 41976690 1986-87 Fleer Barkley 10 PWCC 41976691 1986-87 Fleer Barkley 10 PWCC 41976692 1986-87 Fleer Wilkins 10 No Sale __________________ 3124508@protonmail.com The Short Guide to the PWCC Card Trimming & Alteration Fraud

06-23-2019, 09:23 PM	#9
AbraCalabro Temporarily Suspended Join Date: May 2013 Location: Believe in Saint Abra. Posts: 10,748	dmarcus8 does more than just shill buying http://www.hobbykings.com/forum/view...e8f89bf02bb73b __________________ -FREE TRISTAN- LeBron Exquisite /99 - altered & damaged - A master class in corruption. NEVER FORGET: https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1255123

06-23-2019, 09:42 PM	#11
KhalDrogo Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Posts: 39,288	This is the kind of catalyst needed to keep this moving. A bunch of tainted PSA 10 Fleer Jordan will attract a new pool of collectors. Excellent work guys. __________________ I love PSA!

06-23-2019, 09:01 PM	#3
mindcycle Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 5,043	Excellent work, thanks for sharing. This dude really needs to be arrested and charged with fraud. I hope we see that happening soon. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

06-23-2019, 09:02 PM	#4
3124508 on COMC BODA Join Date: Jun 2016 Posts: 9,129	mb purchases of Fleer Jordan RCs per VCP:* PSA 7: 26 PSA 7.5: 4 PSA 8: 82 PSA 8.5: 7 PSA 9: 75 PSA 10: 0 BGS 8: 11 BGS 8.5: 36 BGS 9: 49 BGS 9.5: 2 (These were purchases from PWCC and Block's friend dmarcus8. Probably shill buys if I had to guess.) __________________ 3124508@protonmail.com The Short Guide to the PWCC Card Trimming & Alteration Fraud

06-23-2019, 09:06 PM	#5
babyfaceposey Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Pensacola, Florida Posts: 8,259 Babyfaceposey	Insane. How these guys are not locked up yet is a disgrace.

06-23-2019, 09:28 PM	#10
6celtics33 Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Posts: 8,183	3 PSA 10 Jordans from one submitter didn’t set off any red flags I guess And they say a 10 has to get approved by multiple people right?

06-23-2019, 09:55 PM	#12
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 84,215 ThoseBackPages	horrible! __________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

06-23-2019, 09:56 PM	#13
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 84,215 ThoseBackPages	is he soaking them? the 10 fills more of the slab then the 9 does __________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

06-23-2019, 09:58 PM	#14
superdan49 BODA Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 4,238	This could be a huge story. Keep it up, friends. __________________ Cardboard Detective Emeritus superdan49@protonmail.com — Anonymous Tip-line

06-23-2019, 10:04 PM	#16
shakobe Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 716	Clearly there was trimming done from the PSA 9 to the PSA 10 especially the corners but what i would like to add is that anyone else notice how the edges of the 10 show clear whitening? How does that pass the grader’sscrutiny? Is there some sort of insider issue with PSA as well?

06-23-2019, 10:19 PM	#17
Springerj23 Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Newburgh, IN Posts: 1,499	Big fish have a clear advantage with PSA. If that is not known, you are lying to yourself. I appreciate the detectives on here, and hope they are correct in their findings. The serial numbered stuff is obvious and quite easy. This here, not so much. I don’t doubt their findings, but it is not concrete. The theories are just that and until somebody catches these people in the act, it won’t stop. What I am getting at is this would not hold up in court of law. It’s not what you know, or the the truth, it’s what you can prove. Until one of these clowns admits their guilts, it won’t stop.... Could end up ruining the hobby...

06-23-2019, 10:43 PM	#19
mk6283 Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Posts: 514 mksportscards	I suspected this was happening with the 86 Fleer rookie. The price jump from a PSA 9 to PSA 10 was far too enticing for the crooks. This is probably just the tip of the iceberg. Outstanding work OP. The emergence of PSA/BGS has caused collectors to put far too much of an emphasis on technical grades. The focus of the hobby needs to shift to rarity, with technical grades being a far secondary factor in valuation. The main benefit of slabs should be authentication and protection—hopefully the grading companies can try to get that part right. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Collector of MJ, Gretzky, Jeter, Favre, 90s, Golds, and more. Instagram: @mksportscards

06-23-2019, 11:09 PM	#20
theLUCKYshow Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Novato, CA Posts: 5,455 theluckshow	Unbelievable work! Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk __________________ Always looking for high end Harry Giles AKA the Future

06-23-2019, 11:37 PM	#21
ilikenicecards Banned Join Date: Apr 2019 Posts: 490	Also the premium for PSA 10s is completely ridiculous. Some people like to waste money.

06-24-2019, 12:15 AM	#22
drobfan8 Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 17,070 drobfan8 drobfan8	These jerks should do prison time. Although even the Wolf of Wall street top dog scumbags ripping millions and millions only end up getting 2 years, and not hard time. Scum of the earth __________________ Wanted, 03/04 Exquisite Base Gold Tim Duncan and 05/06 Exquisite Base Gold /25 Michael Jordan

06-24-2019, 12:17 AM	#23
15ncounting Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 1,333	I blame PSA!

06-24-2019, 12:39 AM	#25
regularp Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 6,858	So there's a fleck of white like a printer mark above the yellow border near the top right of the card that's showing in the 9 and not in the 10. Same with a speck near his right elbow in the middle of the card. Are those just from the scan?