MUST READ TRIMMING THREAD: COMC- HawkDynasty,cccardfactory,LORDSTANLEY2012|PWCC|ih8ca

[auburn35]

Here's a nice 27 card run of BGS 10 (1 9.5) that appears to have been submitted by the HawkDynasty group and graded on April 18th, 2019.

11239899 2005-06 Parkhurst Sidney Crosby RC 10 https://www.comc.com/Cards/Hockey/20.../Graded/BGS/10
11239900 2016-17 Upper Deck Canvas Mathew Barzal YG 10
11239902 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC 10
11239903 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC 10
11239904 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC 10
11239905 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC 10
11239906 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC 9.5
11239907 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Juan Soto 10
11239908 2018 Bowman Chrome Rookie Autographs Miguel Andujar 10
11239910 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 10 Black Label
11239911 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 10 Black Label
11239913 2018 Topps Heritage Chrome Purple Refractors Juan Soto 10
11239914 2018 Topps Heritage Chrome Purple Refractors Juan Soto 10
11239916 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr. 10
11239917 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr. 10
11239918 2018 Topps Chrome Update Autograph Refractors Walker Buehler 10
11239920 2018 Bowman's Best Early Indications Autographs Jo Adell 10
11239924 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC 10
11239925 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC 10
11239926 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC 10
11239927 2018 Bowman's Best Juan Soto RC 10
11239931 2017 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Refractors Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 10
11239932 2017 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Refractors Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 10
11239933 2017 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Refractors Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 10
11239934 2017 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Refractors Vladimir Guerrero Jr. 10
11239940 2013 Topps Chrome Purple Refractors Nolan Arenado 10
11239942 2018 Topps Chrome Update Pink Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr. 10 https://www.comc.com/Cards/Baseball/.../Graded/BGS/10

[SHowley2003]

Post #116 in this thread was the final piece of evidence I needed that PSA is absolutely in on the trim-job gig. That card is easily more than 1/64 of an inch short. That should have been rejected as not meeting minimum size requirement.

[3124508 on COMC]

Originally Posted by ih8ca

I just want to say I appreciate all my customers. I hit the 1 million dollar mark in sales since 2016. Now it looks like I need to start spending more money and get some cards for you guys.

$1 million in COMC sales between 2016 and May 10, 2019 alone.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by SHowley2003

Post #116 in this thread was the final piece of evidence I needed that PSA is absolutely in on the trim-job gig. That card is easily more than 1/64 of an inch short. That should have been rejected as not meeting minimum size requirement.

PSA only measures cards if they look small.

[metsandweezer]

I can’t wait until all these people end up in prison. It’s such a shame. Literally ruining the hobby. You have to think that PSA/BGS is getting a cut ($) from these people. These cards are ridiculously small.

[pspa123]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

PSA doesn't measure cards if they look small.

Fixed it for you.

[dustin42]

Don't think this has been posted here. it is special.

https://blog.comc.com/2019/07/02/600...e-on-july-3rd/

[SHowley2003]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

PSA only measures cards if they look small.

Well maybe they don’t measure cards at all if certain individuals submit them. The short (pun intended) version of the story is that when I was going through my sales and purchases today to see if I ever dealt with any of these COMC accounts I remained I did buy 1 graded card from Hawkdynasty. It was a $10 card that I personally had submitted 5 different copies for grading and all 5 came back as not meeting the minimum size requirements. It ends up that it was a set that was designed with poor specs and almost always measured small. For 3+ years, despite finding many raw copies, I couldn’t find a single PSA graded copy. The only one I have ever seen was on COMC & sold by Hawkdynasty.

You also say PSA only measures cards if the look small? Can the human eye easily detect a variance of 1/64”? I don’t think so. If they don’t measure every card they are doing a huge disservice to the customer.

[RandysHobby]

Ouch. I have 2.5K in purchases from this guy VIA COMC over the years...

[Bowman1951]

Originally Posted by metsandweezer

I can’t wait until all these people end up in prison. It’s such a shame. Literally ruining the hobby. You have to think that PSA/BGS is getting a cut ($) from these people. These cards are ridiculously small.

I’m going to be a bit un-PC here and predict NOBODY goes to prison for any of this because it’s a bunch of old white guy crime that people rarely do time for.

I truly feel that way and until someone is behind bars, trimming will continue even if this all ends up blowing over somehow. There should at least be some who are made examples of but most of these dudes will get good enough lawyers and all plead out somehow.

Just like the college Admissions scandal that will likely not see any jail time involving it.....

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1429812001

[Pink Pussycat]

Originally Posted by ehp6737

Amazing and incredible work. Everyone here in the BO community, and really the industry as a whole, owes you guys a debt of gratitude for what you are doing. So thank you.

As I continue to read all these incredible threads, I think the focus of all this needs to start shifting to the biggest problem of all, and the biggest deplorables of all.......PSA/BGS/SGC.

All day long until we are blue in the face we can call out trimmed cards, as well as expose those who alter them and those who faciliate their sale (fraud).
However the big three are at this point clearly willing and knowing participants. Most of us "regular" collectors are just praying our pack pulled SP Jeters and 82 Ripkens dont come back miniszrq.

If you are a card doctor or the bank behind it, you do not spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on cards, crack them out, and then alter them, unless you knew there was a wink wink deal in place with PSA and BGS. In my mind it is 100% certianity that PSA/BGS are either completely corrupt or at the very least severly compromised at multiple levels.

I wish you guys would now turn your unbelievable detective and sluething skills and focus on the biggest fish of all. Ultimately they are the doorway that all this trash must first pass through. No different than a money launderer washing his money. If you can turn off those faucets, then all the corruption stacked up behind it ceases to exist.

This is the best and most important follow-up post of all, IMO.

There needs to be a very deep FBI investigation into the TPGs, as they are the "Gateway" that makes all the fraud possible.

[dustin42]

Originally Posted by Bowman1951

I’m going to be a bit un-PC here and predict NOBODY goes to prison for any of this because it’s a bunch of old white guy crime that people rarely do time for.

I truly feel that way and until someone is behind bars, trimming will continue even if this all ends up blowing over somehow. There should at least be some who are made examples of but most of these dudes will get good enough lawyers and all plead out somehow.

Just like the college Admissions scandal that will likely not see any jail time involving it.....

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/1429812001

There is no aunt Becky or uncle Jesse here.

[Bowman1951]

Originally Posted by dustin42

There is no aunt Becky or uncle Jesse here.

I mean if the FBI wants to make an example out of Moser because he’s not any sort of famous actor, by all means......we will be applauding.

But I still don’t think anyone serves jail time because it’s nothing more than old white dudes doing boring crimes with a childlike hobby. Time will tell.

[DunceMode]

Originally Posted by LCM1223

Think I may find a new hobby

Sounds like the boda guys have a new hobby busting these creeps, perhaps you could join them.

All jokes aside, I've purchased a lot of cards from hawkdynasty and lordstanley, but only 2017 and newer psa graded base cards worth less than $20. Do you guys think they are trimming low end stuff like that?

[rngrdanny22]

Originally Posted by DunceMode

Sounds like the boda guys have a new hobby busting these creeps, perhaps you could join them.

All jokes aside, I've purchased a lot of cards from hawkdynasty and lordstanley, but only 2017 and newer psa graded base cards worth less than $20. Do you guys think they are trimming low end stuff like that?

Well, yeah.

[SHowley2003]

Originally Posted by DunceMode

Sounds like the boda guys have a new hobby busting these creeps, perhaps you could join them.

All jokes aside, I've purchased a lot of cards from hawkdynasty and lordstanley, but only 2017 and newer psa graded base cards worth less than $20. Do you guys think they are trimming low end stuff like that?

Were they trimming those $20 graded cards? What would a raw version of the same card sell for? If a raw sells for $15 and a graded sells for $20 then probably not. If a raw sells for $1-5 and a graded sells for $20 then yeah I would assume they were altered or submitted knowing they would get a “frequent flyer” bump in grading.

[the27guy]

I don’t even want to guess how many hours of work went into that first post. Thank you to each of the people who helped. I didn’t understand all of it - but I understood enough to get the idea.

Like everyone else here I would guess, I’m just incredibly frustrated by this.

As a forum, the most valuable work that’s being done is the finding of this behavior.

I’m probably in the minority on this, but I feel badly for COMC here. They’re in the business of selling cards on behalf of others and they provide a service that a good portion of us use and appreciate. How are they supposed to detect trimming on cards that are graded? How are they supposed to detect it on cards that aren’t? This isn’t easy. It’s just a sucky situation.

I agree with those of you calling for the individual who submitted trimmed cards to COMC to be required to give all information and items be removed from the site.

But more and more, I feel like we should be pointing at graders and asking them for reform. I’ve said it dozens of times now.... I just want to know the dimensions of the card in the case.... the graders need to provide that data electronically and allow us to decide if the card is trimmed. Every single time.

In the coming years, I believe that we will care far more about how big a card is than what it’s graded. You’d rather have a card that’s graded a 6 and is the size expected than a 10 that’s 1/64 of an inch too small.

Thanks again guys. Keep going. Keep finding stuff. It is discouraging. But it’s 100% needed.

[geomon]

Originally Posted by SHowley2003

Well maybe they don’t measure cards at all if certain individuals submit them. The short (pun intended) version of the story is that when I was going through my sales and purchases today to see if I ever dealt with any of these COMC accounts I remained I did buy 1 graded card from Hawkdynasty. It was a $10 card that I personally had submitted 5 different copies for grading and all 5 came back as not meeting the minimum size requirements. It ends up that it was a set that was designed with poor specs and almost always measured small. For 3+ years, despite finding many raw copies, I couldn’t find a single PSA graded copy. The only one I have ever seen was on COMC & sold by Hawkdynasty.

You also say PSA only measures cards if the look small? Can the human eye easily detect a variance of 1/64”? I don’t think so. If they don’t measure every card they are doing a huge disservice to the customer.

This is why it should be required that every card that is submitted for grading be measured.

[hockeyguy2006]

Originally Posted by geomon

This is why it should be required that every card that is submitted for grading be measured.

They have machines that can do this using a camera. They are used in manufacturing.

[ThoseBackPages]

Originally Posted by DunceMode

Sounds like the boda guys have a new hobby busting these creeps, perhaps you could join them.

All jokes aside, I've purchased a lot of cards from hawkdynasty and lordstanley, but only 2017 and newer psa graded base cards worth less than $20. Do you guys think they are trimming low end stuff like that?

Welcome back.

of course!

[Geoff G]

Where would one find the factory specs or measurements for cards .. how do I know or find out what a card should measure out as?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ninjacookies]

Originally Posted by Geoff G

Where would one find the factory specs or measurements for cards .. how do I know or find out what a card should measure out as?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Only the grading card companies have these mysterious spec sheets. Which are basically never used anyways.

[RandysHobby]

Originally Posted by the27guy

I don’t even want to guess how many hours of work went into that first post. Thank you to each of the people who helped. I didn’t understand all of it - but I understood enough to get the idea.

Like everyone else here I would guess, I’m just incredibly frustrated by this.

As a forum, the most valuable work that’s being done is the finding of this behavior.

I’m probably in the minority on this, but I feel badly for COMC here. They’re in the business of selling cards on behalf of others and they provide a service that a good portion of us use and appreciate. How are they supposed to detect trimming on cards that are graded? How are they supposed to detect it on cards that aren’t? This isn’t easy. It’s just a sucky situation.

I agree with those of you calling for the individual who submitted trimmed cards to COMC to be required to give all information and items be removed from the site.

But more and more, I feel like we should be pointing at graders and asking them for reform. I’ve said it dozens of times now.... I just want to know the dimensions of the card in the case.... the graders need to provide that data electronically and allow us to decide if the card is trimmed. Every single time.

In the coming years, I believe that we will care far more about how big a card is than what it’s graded. You’d rather have a card that’s graded a 6 and is the size expected than a 10 that’s 1/64 of an inch too small.

Thanks again guys. Keep going. Keep finding stuff. It is discouraging. But it’s 100% needed.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Every single graded card needs a more precise review. This is on PSA, not COMC. I feel real bad for COMC, assuming they are truly in the dark here, which I think they are.

[auburn35]

Originally Posted by dustin42

Don't think this has been posted here. it is special.

https://blog.comc.com/2019/07/02/600...e-on-july-3rd/

Here's the list of cards graded during the same run as the two BGS cards, highlighted in this advertisement. All graded on May 13th, 2019. I went through at random and linked the items to either the COMC listing or the couple that 3124508 on COMC already has posted, as being altered.

11323092 2017-18 Panini Flawless Flawless Patch Autographs Gold De'Aaron Fox/10 9.5
COMC advertisement card

11323093 2013 Topps Museum Collection Signature Swatches Triple Relic Autographs Gold Ken Griffey Jr. 9.5 https://www.comc.com/Cards/Baseball/...Graded/BGS/9_5
11323094 2004 Bowman Signs of the Future Joey Votto A 9.5
11323095 2011 Topps Gypsy Queen Autographs Frethtddie Freeman 9.5
11323096 2013 Topps Chrome Rookie Autographs Gold Refractors Christian Yelich 9.5
COMC advertisement card

11323097 2014 Bowman Sterling Prospect Autographs Francisco Lindor 9.5
11323098 2016 Topps Heritage Real One Autographs Trea Turner HN 9.5
11323099 2017 Bowman's Best Best of '17 Autographs Jo Adell 9.5
11323100 2018 Topps Archives '93 All Stars Dual Autographs Jose Altuve/George Springer 9.5
11323101 2018 Topps Gypsy Queen Autographs Miguel Andujar 9.5
11323102 2018 Topps Clearly Authentic Autographs Blue Mike Trout 9.5
11323103 2018 Topps Chrome Update Autograph Refractors Ozzie Albies 9.5
11323104 2018 Topps Chrome Rookie Autographs Blue Wave Refractors Jack Flaherty 9.5
11323105 2018 Topps Chrome Update Autograph X-fractors Walker Buehler 10 https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...77&postcount=2
11323106 2018 Topps Chrome Sapphire Autographs Victor Robles 9.5
11323107 2018 Bowman's Best Best of '18 Autographs Shohei Ohtani 9.5
11323108 2001 SP Game Used Edition Authentic Fabric Autographs Ken Griffey Jr. 9
11323109 1997 Donruss Signature Significant Signatures Ernie Banks 9.5 https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...77&postcount=2
11323110 1990 Leaf Frank Thomas RC 9.5
11323111 1993 SP Derek Jeter FOIL RC 9
11323112 1997 Metal Universe Blast Furnace Ken Griffey Jr. 10
11323113 1998 Finest Refractors Cal Ripken 9.5
11323114 1998 Flair Showcase Legacy Collection Row 3 Ken Griffey Jr. 9.5
11323115 2000 Finest Refractors A.Rodriguez/K.Griffey Jr. 9.5
11323116 2008 Topps Red Hot Rookie Redemption Clayton Kershaw 9.5
11323117 2010 Topps Chrome Wrapper Redemption Refractors Buster Posey 10
11323118 2011 Topps Update Mike Trout RC 9
11323119 2011 Finest X-Fractors Freddie Freeman 9.5
11323120 2011 Bowman Chrome Draft Refractors Jose Altuve 9.5
11323121 2011 TRISTAR Obak T212 Mini Mike Trout 9.5 https://www.comc.com/Cards/Baseball/...Graded/BGS/9_5
11323122 2013 Finest Refractors Mike Trout 10
11323123 2013 Bowman Chrome Draft Blue Wave Refractors Nolan Arenado 9.5
11323124 2015 Topps Chrome Refractors Mike Trout 9.5
11323125 2017 Bowman's Best Top Prospects Purple Refractors Ronald Acuna 9.5
11323126 2017 Bowman's Best Purple Refractors Alex Bregman 10
11323127 2017 Topps Heritage Chrome Purple Refractors Cody Bellinger 10
11323128 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 9.5
11323129 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 10
11323130 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 9.5
11323131 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 9.5
11323132 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 9.5
11323133 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 10
11323134 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 10
11323135 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 9.5
11323136 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 9.5
11323137 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 9.5
11323138 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 9.5
11323139 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 9.5
11323140 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 9.5
11323141 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 9.5
11323142 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 9.5
11323143 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 9.5
11323144 2018 Topps Chrome Ronald Acuna RC 9.5
11323145 2018 Topps Chrome Pink Refractors Ronald Acuna 9.5
11323146 2018 Topps Chrome Prism Refractors Ronald Acuna 9.5
11323147 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC 9.5
11323148 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC 9.5
11323149 2018 Topps Chrome Update Juan Soto RC 10
11323150 2018 Topps Chrome Refractors Shohei Ohtani 10
11323151 2018 Topps Heritage Chrome Purple Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr. 9.5
11323152 2018 Topps Heritage Chrome Purple Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr. 9.5
11323153 2018 Topps Heritage Chrome Juan Soto 9.5
11323154 2018 Topps Heritage Chrome Gleyber Torres 9.5
11323155 2018 Bowman's Best Atomic Refractors Juan Soto 9.5
11323156 2018 Bowman's Best Purple Refractors Juan Soto 10
11323157 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Juan Soto 9.5 https://www.comc.com/Cards/Baseball/...Graded/BGS/9_5
11323158 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Juan Soto 0
11323159 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr. 10
11323160 2018 Bowman's Best Refractors Ronald Acuna Jr. 9.5
11323161 2018 Bowman Chrome National Convention Red Prism Refractors Hank Aaron 9.5
11323162 2018 Bowman Orange Walker Buehler 9.5
11323163 2018-19 Donruss Significant Signatures Green Trae Young 9.5
11323164 1996 Topps Stars Reprint Autographs George Mikan 9.5
11323165 2014-15 Select Signatures Prizms Copper Julius Erving 10
11323166 2018-19 Donruss Optic Rated Rookies Signatures Luka Doncic 9.5
11323167 2013-14 SP Authentic Giannis Antetokounmpo 9.5
11323168 2013-14 SP Authentic Giannis Antetokounmpo 9.5
11323169 2013-14 SP Authentic Giannis Antetokounmpo 9.5
11323170 2013-14 SP Authentic Giannis Antetokounmpo 9.5
11323171 2013-14 SP Authentic Giannis Antetokounmpo 9.5
11323172 2018-19 Donruss Optic Luka Doncic RR RC 9.5
11323173 1993-94 Finest Michael Jordan 9.5
11323174 2013-14 Select Giannis Antetokounmpo RC 9.5
11323175 1996-97 Bowman's Best Shots Refractors Michael Jordan 9.5
11323176 1998-99 E-X Century Dunk 'N Go Nuts Tracy McGrady 9.5 https://www.comc.com/Cards/Basketbal...Graded/BGS/9_5
11323177 1996-97 E-X2000 Star Date 2000 Allen Iverson 9.5
11323178 2003-04 Fleer Tradition LeBron James RC 9.5
11323179 2018 Score Rookie Autographs Leighton Vander Esch 9.5
11323180 2017 Leaf Valiant Prismatic Purple Pat Mahomes II 10
11323181 2017 Prestige Rookie Autographs Patrick Mahomes II 9.5
11323182 2004 SP Game Used Edition Rookie Exclusives Autographs Philip Rivers 9.5
11323183 2012 Panini Contenders Bobby Wagner AU/290* RC 9.5 https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...77&postcount=2
11323184 2012 Fleer Retro Autographics 1998 Russell Wilson 9.5
11323185 1999 SP Authentic Player's Ink Green Randy Moss 9
11323186 2012 Topps Black Kam Chancellor 9
11323187 2007 Finest Refractors Adrian Peterson 9.5
11323188 1997 Finest Refractors Walter Jones 10
11323189 2004 Topps Chrome Philip Rivers RC 9.5
11323190 2007 Finest Blue Refractors Tom Brady 9.5
11323191 2015-16 Upper Deck MVP Connor McDavid 9.5
11323192 2016-17 SP Authentic Auston Matthews FW AU RC 9.5
11323193 2018-19 Upper Deck Elias Pettersson YG RC 9.5
11323194 2018-19 Upper Deck Elias Pettersson YG RC 9.5
11323195 2018-19 Upper Deck Elias Pettersson YG RC 9.5
11323196 2018-19 Upper Deck Elias Pettersson YG RC 9.5
11323197 2016-17 Upper Deck Brayden Point YG RC 9.5
11323198 2016-17 Upper Deck Exclusives Sebastian Aho YG 9.5 https://www.comc.com/Cards/Hockey/20...Graded/BGS/9_5
11323199 2016-17 Upper Deck Clear Cut Patrik Laine YG 9.5

[NickM]

Originally Posted by Dragonman

FYI Hawk Dynasty is running a 10% sale if anyone is interested.

10% off which edge?