Receving cards with scratches on ebay...overreacting?

[rafibomb]

So I don’t buy many cards on ebay but I have received 4 cards in the past few months with scratches on them that were not disclosed in the listing or photographed.

I always disclose even the smallest dimple or surface scratch and these look like someones cat attacked the cards. I returned a Kobe from Beckett marketplace that had 3 deep scratches and I don’t have a photo of that. The seller of the Jordan offered me a nice partial refund so I accepted it. I didn’t return the prizm Curry and I just received this Lebron. Would you guys be returning these or is this just to be expected with raw on ebay?


















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[RedMike]

If the seller list it as near mint at best than I probably wouldn't. If they listed as brand new or would grade well... than i would return it.

[volblorx8634]

I've been running into this recently as well. At first it bothered me, but then I started observing that so many people in their listings mention "this card won't grade a 10", "won't gem", "baby minor scratch on card", "a piece of dog fur fell on this card last year". It's ridiculous. If (the proverbial) you want a gem card, but a graded card. A raw card should not be held to a standard of gem mint.

I think an acceptable level of damage is fine on a raw card. Obviously, acceptable is a subjective term. Of the three you posted, only the LeBron is egregious. That's a lot of very noticeable scratches. The Curry and Jordan, to me, shouldn't pass the threshhold of returning.

[rafibomb]

Originally Posted by volblorx8634

I've been running into this recently as well. At first it bothered me, but then I started observing that so many people in their listings mention "this card won't grade a 10", "won't gem", "baby minor scratch on card", "a piece of dog fur fell on this card last year". It's ridiculous. If (the proverbial) you want a gem card, but a graded card. A raw card should not be held to a standard of gem mint.

I think an acceptable level of damage is fine on a raw card. Obviously, acceptable is a subjective term. Of the three you posted, only the LeBron is egregious. That's a lot of very noticeable scratches. The Curry and Jordan, to me, shouldn't pass the threshhold of returning.

Yeah I kept the Curry and Jordan. The Lebron was the one that bothered me the most. I never buy cards on ebay to send to psa or expect gem, but I do wish more sellers would list obvious flaws that aren't always noticeable in pictures.

[armyml]

I always list cards as like new and provide scans to avoid this type of thing. Any damage on the card should be noticed by the buyer before purchasing. Unless it's some huge kind of damage like a scratch then yea I would definitely disclose it. Were the cards not scanned in the pics for the auctions? People taking Picasso pics trying to sell cards!!

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[whoaitsg33]

lebron card looks like it was handled by freddy kreuger

[Nutcracker33]

I can take a pass on the curry, but definitely i will say something about that lebron.

[rynojim]

If not mentioned or obvious photos of scratches, I would get refund. I find myself asking at least 75% of the time on what appears to be scratches on card or protector. A lot of times I don’t get a response, which tends to make me think it is a scratch. I don’t know why it’s so hard to mention that there is a scratch or defect on the card. That seller would probably be pissed if they received a card like that.

I also don’t care what someone tells me what they think a card will grade at. I had someone tell me a card would grade a PSA 9 or 10. When I got it, there was a crease in the corner (not noticeable in pix) and no way it would get a 9 or 10. I got refund for it.

[BigZigBoom]

Well, I think those scratches are bad and those cards would not be considered near mint to mint. If they were not disclosed, whether verbally or in the pics, I would have an issue.

[regularp]

Originally Posted by armyml

I always list cards as like new and provide scans to avoid this type of thing. Any damage on the card should be noticed by the buyer before purchasing. Unless it's some huge kind of damage like a scratch then yea I would definitely disclose it. Were the cards not scanned in the pics for the auctions? People taking Picasso pics trying to sell cards!!

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You are part of the problem. "Look at the scans" is not indicative of condition. Some things don't show up on scans and it's not hard to look it over for five seconds and disclose scuffs/scratches/etc. on the card.

This is also one reason why high grade is commanding such a premium now. It's such a crap shoot buying raw because maybe 10% of sellers are honest about the condition of what they're selling.

[dkcardman]

Dang. Do these people open their packs in a sandbox?

[packfan15412]

Honestly those would bother me forsure! I get that we shouldn't expect Gems on raw cards but on condition sensitive cards like Prizm, Optic, Select, Mosaic the slightest dimple or scratch ruins the card... I think its BS if people don't describe any flaws in the card like the ones you got because they know they won't get as much money for them... those are brutal. I understand if its a thick card like nt or flawless that has bad corners or edges as thats normal... but for brands like Prizm Optic Select Mosaic condition is everything... Just my 2 cents.

[volblorx8634]

Originally Posted by packfan15412

Honestly those would bother me forsure! I get that we shouldn't expect Gems on raw cards but on condition sensitive cards like Prizm, Optic, Select, Mosaic the slightest dimple or scratch ruins the card... I think its BS if people don't describe any flaws in the card like the ones you got because they know they won't get as much money for them... those are brutal. I understand if its a thick card like nt or flawless that has bad corners or edges as thats normal... but for brands like Prizm Optic Select Mosaic condition is everything... Just my 2 cents.

I disagree with this, although I respect that it's your opinion. Why is the card ruined by the slightest dimple or scratch? If you want a card without any flaws, isn't that gem mint? But you said that you get that we shouldn't expect gems on raw cards?

You're probably right that people won't get as much money for cards if they disclose minor flaws, but I think that is dumb in and of itself, assuming the flaws are truly minor. If there's legitimate damage like that LeBron, I agree it needs to be disclosed and should garner less money. But the Curry and Jordan to me aren't an issue, it's not pristine, but it's minor wear on a card that's several years old.

[mc1]

Those are some ugly scratches. I wouldnt want those cards.

[packfan15412]

Thanks brother. Just because a card doesn't have a scratch or dimple doesn't mean its gonna gem you gotta consider centering and edges into it... but we all know these brands are extremely condition sensitive... the slightest scratch ruins the appearance of the card for many people. People don't disclose issues like that for a reason and its because they're gonna lose money on it if they do. For me if i'm paying top dollar for a card i'm expecting it to be fairly clean, I can see that cards are not centered, but I can't see the scratches or flaws that are hidden by the seller. For me if I see scratches or flaws on a card like this i'm gonna pass on it... if its clean but non centered id be interested. This has always been an interesting topic and everyone has their own opinion! Would like to hear others!

Originally Posted by volblorx8634

I disagree with this, although I respect that it's your opinion. Why is the card ruined by the slightest dimple or scratch? If you want a card without any flaws, isn't that gem mint? But you said that you get that we shouldn't expect gems on raw cards?

You're probably right that people won't get as much money for cards if they disclose minor flaws, but I think that is dumb in and of itself, assuming the flaws are truly minor. If there's legitimate damage like that LeBron, I agree it needs to be disclosed and should garner less money. But the Curry and Jordan to me aren't an issue, it's not pristine, but it's minor wear on a card that's several years old.

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by RedMike

If the seller list it as near mint at best than I probably wouldn't. If they listed as brand new or would grade well... than i would return it.

None of the ones in the original post look near mint to me. Those all look like trash. And the scratches almost never show up in the eBay photos.

[Gio47]

Originally Posted by Nutcracker33

I can take a pass on the curry, but definitely i will say something about that lebron.

Agreed, raw 2012 prizm cards all have those scratches at this point.

[armyml]

Originally Posted by regularp

You are part of the problem. "Look at the scans" is not indicative of condition. Some things don't show up on scans and it's not hard to look it over for five seconds and disclose scuffs/scratches/etc. on the card.

This is also one reason why high grade is commanding such a premium now. It's such a crap shoot buying raw because maybe 10% of sellers are honest about the condition of what they're selling.

Damn bro little harsh don't you think? Perhaps I should have clarified more in my post. I didn't just say "look at the scans" and like I said before if I see a scratch or print line or indent I let the seller know. I list cards "like new" and not brand new as well. The zoom feature in Ebay is also great. I spend a good few minutes or so checking corners and surface on all the cards I buy. I buy just as much as I sell on Ebay so I sell with a buyers mentality. I'm not some big shop looking to screw over the little guy. My point is that if a high quality scan is there, there are no secrets to the condition of the card. Shady pictures and weird angles are one thing, but speed-reading a listing and glancing at the pic with the intention of hitting the BIN cuz you're so excited is something else entirely.

[Bruin7]

YIKES - this is an example where a PSA 9 is superior to purchasing RAW online

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by regularp

You are part of the problem. "Look at the scans" is not indicative of condition. Some things don't show up on scans and it's not hard to look it over for five seconds and disclose scuffs/scratches/etc. on the card.

This is also one reason why high grade is commanding such a premium now. It's such a crap shoot buying raw because maybe 10% of sellers are honest about the condition of what they're selling.

I agree. I honestly don’t like graded cards, and I don’t consider myself to be a stickler for condition, but some of these look like they were rubbed with sandpaper, and even I’m getting to the point where I’ll buy graded if I can justify the price difference.

Many sellers don’t disclose flaws in the hopes that the buyer won’t bother returning. I expect raw cards with no disclosed damage to be roughly the equivalent of PSA 8 or better (centering aside). Any worse and the damage should be disclosed, in my opinion.

[messier2]

The problem sometimes with these "rip and list" "hot" products, sellers don't have time to examine each and every card closely for scratches, etc. They rip and list!

So, for many of them, it's not intentional that they did not disclose some scratches...just how their business model is set.

[JustRachel]

There definitely is a threshold after which flaws need to be disclosed. It seems that threshold is different for everyone. My personal limit is difficult to quantify. I certainly do not expect gem and not all scratches are egregious enough to warrant a complaint, but some certainly are.

When a seller leaves out an important condition note (I suppose by my own definition of important), I feel like I'm getting ripped off...and I absolutely hate feeling like that. I simply won't accept a card if I feel the condition was not represented adequately and that caused me to overpay for a card. I want my money back, and I feel sellers that misrepresent items deserve to be punished.

Selling crappy cards without disclosure is ripping people off, pure and simple.

OP, you got ripped off on that LeBron. I have zero sympathy for that seller. He needs to take the loss for his crappiness. Maybe then, he won't rip off the next person. Moreover, legit sellers are always better off when BS artists are run out of business.

My two cents....

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by volblorx8634

I disagree with this, although I respect that it's your opinion. Why is the card ruined by the slightest dimple or scratch? If you want a card without any flaws, isn't that gem mint? But you said that you get that we shouldn't expect gems on raw cards?

You're probably right that people won't get as much money for cards if they disclose minor flaws, but I think that is dumb in and of itself, assuming the flaws are truly minor. If there's legitimate damage like that LeBron, I agree it needs to be disclosed and should garner less money. But the Curry and Jordan to me aren't an issue, it's not pristine, but it's minor wear on a card that's several years old.

A lot of this is very case by case for me. Ive kept numerous cards with flaws that didn’t show up in photos or scans, but they were flaws I wouldn’t expect a reasonable person to necessarily disclose. A minor dimple, minor scuff, print line, etc. are fine with me.

I also have lower expectations based on the value of the card. If it’s a $5 card, I don’t expect the seller to look it over that closely. If it’s $500 or in the thousands, I don’t care if it’s graded or not... tell me exactly what I’m getting. I’m still forgiving of a dinged corner that shows in photos, but not this cheese grater to the surface nonsense.

I’ve bought cards with flaws I didn’t expect the seller to disclose, then resold them and disclosed the flaws because it wasn’t quite up to my standards, then ate the loss. Again... case by case. I expect integrity is all, to be honest.

[BonanzaGrade]

Raw card sellers sell because the card won’t grade well.

Raw card buyers buy because its cheaper and they hope it will grade a 10.

[isles4life]

Originally Posted by BonanzaGrade

Raw card sellers sell because the card won’t grade well.

Raw card buyers buy because its cheaper and they hope it will grade a 10.

I sell raw cards because I don't grade. I don't have the patience to go through the process or the trust in the concept tbh.