Really weird shill bidding

[Anish]

This has happened to me a couple of times in the last week: I am outbid on something and the bid becomes astronomical - over 13k in this case - due to two private feedback bidders.

But before it ends, there are bid cancellations and one of the private feedback bidders ends up getting it for just over what I bid.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-14-Nat...app-cvip-panel

What is going on? Has anyone else dealt with this?

[pejc300]

This is all over the boards. This is a huge problem right now and quite scary if you are a seller.

[shrevecity]

Sounds more like bid shielding not shilling. Its a scam where a buyer will use 2 IDs to bid an item way up to stop others from bidding then as late as they can they cancel one of the bids then they win it for the high bid. Its always going to be just over the 3 parties highest bid.

[Gcervantes2]

Not sure why eBay has not implemented a retraction penalty.

I think the older your account the higher your retraction limit should be but new and fresh accounts should not be allowed to do this.

Its also crazy how you can have multiple ebay accounts and easily protect your investment. You send yourself an order cancellation and you are good to go you can re list it and try to get the price you want again.

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by shrevecity

Sounds more like bid shielding not shilling. Its a scam where a buyer will use 2 IDs to bid an item way up to stop others from bidding then as late as they can they cancel one of the bids then they win it for the high bid. Its always going to be just over the 3 parties highest bid.

Hmm...that's sounds most likely what's going on. They're going to need to start cracking down hard on bid retractions if this is the case. Like so many and it's a bannable offense because that's some b.s. and sucks for both the rest of the buyers and the seller.

[pejc300]

In all my years I had never heard of bid shielding before. I also did not know people could do this on eBay, but it has definitely entered the sports card market. This is bad.

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by Anish

This has happened to me a couple of times in the last week: I am outbid on something and the bid becomes astronomical - over 13k in this case - due to two private feedback bidders.

But before it ends, there are bid cancellations and one of the private feedback bidders ends up getting it for just over what I bid.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-14-Nat...app-cvip-panel

What is going on? Has anyone else dealt with this?

If you're not following it's basically this:
You bid $100 and have a max of say $150 thinking the card is worth that.
Bidder B bids $1000 bringing the price to $105. Bidder C bids $1500 bringing the price to $1005. Now no one else bids because the price is way over what it's worth. At the last second, bidder C cancels his bid and bidder B wins for $105. This is why a lot of sellers refuse to do auctions on ebay.

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by pejc300

In all my years I had never heard of bid shielding before. I also did not know people could do this on eBay, but it has definitely entered the sports card market. This is bad.

It's been around for a long time in the market. People just weren't so blatant about it like they are now. They are bidders with literally hundreds of retractions and ebay does nothing about it.

[KhalDrogo]

If you auction something yourself or through consignment, you need to check the bid history at the end for every item.

Bid shielding is becoming rampant, and eBay needs to step in and block all bid restrictions within 24 hours of auction end.

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

If you're not following it's basically this:
You bid $100 and have a max of say $150 thinking the card is worth that.
Bidder B bids $1000 bringing the price to $105. Bidder C bids $1500 bringing the price to $1005. Now no one else bids because the price is way over what it's worth. At the last second, bidder C cancels his bid and bidder B wins for $105. This is why a lot of sellers refuse to do auctions on ebay.

If you had a max bid in of 150 then it would end at 155 if the bid that remains was 1000. But that is the gist of what is happening.

[shrevecity]

Originally Posted by pejc300

In all my years I had never heard of bid shielding before. I also did not know people could do this on eBay, but it has definitely entered the sports card market. This is bad.

This scam is as old as Ebay.

[Blake050]

They did that to a couple of Giannis cards I was watching on Sunday night. You can see the shill bids in the pictures, then they retracted the bids.

https://ibb.co/9tn8bMS
https://ibb.co/J5HdrKg

[RogerGodahell]

Is there a setting where you can block people with so many bid retraction? That might be a quick fix if you're a seller. Not sure it's available though. Probably should be if it isn't.

[Onepocketj]

Originally Posted by shrevecity

If you had a max bid in of 150 then it would end at 155 if the bid that remains was 1000. But that is the gist of what is happening.

I was saying he bid $100 and was thinking of going up to $150. That's why it would go to $105 when someone bid $1000 and why he wouldn't bid anymore.

[shootit]

Originally Posted by shrevecity

If you had a max bid in of 150 then it would end at 155 if the bid that remains was 1000. But that is the gist of what is happening.

say i put in a bid at 120, ebay will tell me ive been outbid but when they retrace the winning bid will be at 125 right? can u bid on a listing an amount lower than the high bid?

[RogerGodahell]

Originally Posted by shootit

say i put in a bid at 120, ebay will tell me ive been outbid but when they retrace the winning bid will be at 125 right? can u bid on a listing an amount lower than the high bid?

No you can't bid lower than the high amount once it's already been raised. Maybe you could if you were quick. But it sounds like they probably do the retractions at the last second before the auction ends so no one else can get any bids in and it falls back to the 3rd party involved in the scheme.

[pejc300]

Originally Posted by Onepocketj

It's been around for a long time in the market. People just weren't so blatant about it like they are now. They are bidders with literally hundreds of retractions and ebay does nothing about it.

Originally Posted by shrevecity

This scam is as old as Ebay.

I've seen a lot of bid retractions over the years, usually with people who own the same card and bid it up but then don't want to get stuck so they retract, but not at the last second. This might have been around for a while, but I have never had it happen to one of my auctions and this is the first I've heard of it being a problem with cards on these boards in the 10 years I've been here. I'm sure it's happened a lot, but I don't think like this or to this degree.

[ninjacookies]

> Ebay
> cares




I do recall seeing this stuff happening a few years ago, but not to this magnitude. I don't want to stereotype when speculating, but I'd wager good money they're the same dudes auctioning vintage OVO keychains and Off White varsity jackets.

[mjohnatgt]

It's been mentioned in three different threads I've read on Blowout (mostly down in the eBay forum) in the past month, but I rarely saw it before that. Probably a tactic from the sneakerheads that have invaded because of Gary Vee.
Definitely a flaw in eBay, probably preying on the fact that so many use sniping software now (although that's been flaky as well). Once the price has exceeded the bid limit you've set up on gixen or gavelsnipe, those sites ignore it from then on, right? Maybe the sniping companies need to add some code to their software to continue monitoring for bid cancellations and then place your bids anyways (even if it's already beat).

[LeonfromNC]

At the end of the day no one is going to use the sale as it’s a fake comp and most likely the seller will have to relist the card anyways.

This happened with the Giannis exquisite auto rc I was watching 2 weeks ago.

See here:

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showthread.php?t=1387503

Thing is I just contacted the seller and he said both high bidders have zero feedback so he just sold the card to me instead.

Not only did I get the card I wanted but I actually got it cheaper than market value due to the idiot who tried to bid shield it.

So win win for me

[ballhawkdawk]

Originally Posted by Anish

This has happened to me a couple of times in the last week: I am outbid on something and the bid becomes astronomical - over 13k in this case - due to two private feedback bidders.

But before it ends, there are bid cancellations and one of the private feedback bidders ends up getting it for just over what I bid.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-14-Nat...app-cvip-panel

What is going on? Has anyone else dealt with this?

Same thing happened to me a couple weeks ago. An hour before the auction ended it spiked to like $3,500+. Card was realistically worth $1,500 - $2,500. At the last second (literally) it drops to like $1,100. I messaged Probstein about it but never got a response.

[k13]

See it happening a lot more lately.
The more money in the hobby the dirtier it will get.

[Josie27]

eBay will not do anything. It would cost time and money for eBay to do something therefore they will sit idly by and do f-all. Unless something has a negative impact on stock price very few large corporations, if any, give a flying F about ethics or rules. Or you for that matter.

As the popular justification for damn near everything on this forum...welcome to modern day capitalism. Trim and shill away.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

[shrevecity]

They still have to be doing it very late in the listing. Ebay does not allow retraction of bids on items that have less than 4 hours to go unless the bid is placed in the last 4 hours.

Most large sellers may never even see this like the Probstein listing where this happened. Unless he went right into the bid history there is a good chance he would never look at it. I run 10 to 20 auctions at a time and I never look at histories of the bids and such. Just not worth my time.

[Anish]

“Shielding” is exactly what it is - thanks for the replies

I messaged another seller about this and he said he was aware and cancelled the sale. However, I haven’t heard back from Probstein and I don’t know if he’s caught on.

There’s really no reason to allow bid cancellations; if you win and can’t pay just take the unpaid item hit.