Player breaks that don’t hit any cards question

base set · 11-19-2024, 06:25 PM

What’s the Standard Operating Procedure here?

Refund? At least shipping refund?

I tried a gamble on a Heritage Mini this spring, lost 3 or 4 of my hard earned George Washingtons. The players were not hit, no refund though the bigger loss was the time wasted watching a bunch of Hockey goobers take my George Washingtons when they clearly knew little about el Beisból.

How do most breakers handle this? What does eBay say about this straight up gambling on their platform - keep money for no package ever received? I didn’t launch a claim with Hockey Falls over $4.

But I could see taking a lighter to a couple five GWs again some bored day.

vwnut13 · 11-19-2024, 06:29 PM

You understand how a group break works, right?

base set · 11-19-2024, 06:48 PM

Yeah, completely. I don’t dabble in them often but have just always done team breaks. No guarantees, yaddayadda. Had just never seen one before that didn’t hit anything at all. Seemed like at least the shipping fee could come back. Just curious about the concept in that a small gesture like that could be a come-back-soon customer relations move. Have had breakers just randomly add other cards to poor results shipments.

Archangel1775 · 11-19-2024, 06:59 PM

Group break protocol is designated by the breaker prior to. When nothing is hit, they usually mail random base cards to you to ensure a tangible transaction is made. I'm sure a $4 refund for shipping or base cards isn't going to appease the disappointment in your gamble.

base set · 11-19-2024, 07:17 PM

Again, I didn’t even care. I knew what I was doing. But since it’s not how I collect, just wondering how the breaking (& ecommerce & money transfer) biz handles this.

Sending out random base would be one strategy I expected, but didn’t experience. Even a couple times in the past when I received random bonus cards I presumed were supposed to soothe losers in the break, there wasn’t zero results before the relatively pointless add-ons.

Is just an odd concept on ebay in particular, not other platforms, a transaction where only money is exchanged. Didn’t feel … sustainable, on ebay.

Archangel1775 · 11-19-2024, 07:22 PM

What were the breakers SOP? It's posted right? If you want you bass cards, just send them an email. I'm sure they'd send you $4 back too. Customer service is important but they gotta know you're unhappy. Companies get lazy sometimes. Are you considering a charge back?

Rbradleigh · 11-19-2024, 07:24 PM

Do Casinos refund your losses?

notfast · 11-19-2024, 07:52 PM

Refund of what?

QuinEarlyDoucet · 11-19-2024, 07:56 PM

Sucks for you Op

MiamiMarlinsFan · 11-19-2024, 08:04 PM

What happens in Vegas when you put $50 on black and the roulette ball lands on red?

ATLSevarb · 11-19-2024, 08:11 PM

I contend that breaks w/out skunk protection are illegal (in some states) games of chance. Prove me wrong. (Please. As a victim of said games of chance in the Bible Belt).

Edit to add: I’m being somewhat factious, but you can’t deny the grey area (again, in SOME states).

OhioLawyerF5 · 11-19-2024, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATLSevarb

I contend that breaks w/out skunk protection are illegal (in some states) games of chance. Prove me wrong. (Please. As a victim of said games of chance in the Bible Belt).

Edit to add: I’m being somewhat factious, but you can’t deny the grey area (again, in SOME states).

No, you are absolutely correct. It is illegal gambling for them to send nothing. Comparing to legally regulated gambling in Vegas is misplaced. Ebay requires them to send you something. If they never ship anything, ebay will refund if you file a claim if they can't provide proof of shipping. A lot of fly by night breakers have no clue about ebay's rules, let alone gambling laws.

awz50 · 11-19-2024, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuinEarlyDoucet

Sucks for you Op

Quote:

Originally Posted by notfast

Refund of what?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rbradleigh

Do Casinos refund your losses?

Tough crowd

base set · 11-19-2024, 08:35 PM

For the 4th time - I spent $4 on a lottery and got nothing. I didn’t care. I didn’t bother to dig into the policy of that particular breaker and it is irrelevant now. Breaking is work and I paid $4 for the services rendered. I was a little sarcastic about the triviality, trying to keep the subject light.

But it begs the question of what happens when other ebay customers spend $ and get - nothing. That’s not going to happen on a 100 caser.

But for people selling 500 spots to break a handful of boxes, that’s gonna happen a lot. What does ebay do when a complaint comes in? Is one of my questions.

My other is - what is the average decision here, by a breaker? Sending a random card would be one way to show a product was received. Is that common? Do some do refunds?

rms13 · 11-19-2024, 08:36 PM

Some will refund shipping, some will just ship you some commons or something else no value as a consolation prize.

OhioLawyerF5 · 11-19-2024, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by base set

For the 4th time - I spent $4 on a lottery and got nothing. I didn’t care. I didn’t bother to dig into the policy of that particular breaker and it is irrelevant now. Breaking is work and I paid $4 for the services rendered. I was a little sarcastic about the triviality, trying to keep the subject light.

But it begs the question of what happens when other ebay customers spend $ and get - nothing. That’s not going to happen on a 100 caser.

But for people selling 500 spots to break a handful of boxes, that’s gonna happen a lot. What does ebay do when a complaint comes in? Is one of my questions.

My other is - what is the average decision here, by a breaker? Sending a random card would be one way to show a product was received. Is that common? Do some do refunds?

They have to ship something. Some of them just ship a business card. But ebay requires a shipment.

base set · 11-19-2024, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

No, you are absolutely correct. It is illegal gambling for them to send nothing. Comparing to legally regulated gambling in Vegas is misplaced. Ebay requires them to send you something. If they never ship anything, ebay will refund if you file a claim if they can't provide proof of shipping. A lot of fly by night breakers have no clue about ebay's rules, let alone gambling laws.

Thanks. Left the thread open too long, missed your answer.

whitmm · 11-19-2024, 09:17 PM

How do Hobby Legends' auctions work with eBay's rules then? I see their listings call it a sweepstakes and have a no purchase necessary statement. They also have a statement that says you could receive nothing.

That's not exactly a fly by night breaker.

seanbros55 · 11-19-2024, 09:26 PM

This is a troll post, right?

I mean, what kind of turd with 9000 post starts this thread?

OhioLawyerF5 · 11-19-2024, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitmm

How do Hobby Legends' auctions work with eBay's rules then? I see their listings call it a sweepstakes and have a no purchase necessary statement. They also have a statement that says you could receive nothing.

That's not exactly a fly by night breaker.

You answered your own question. No purchase necessary is the most common way companies avoid gambling laws. It's literally why it's on every box of baseball cards.

Orangejello727 · 11-19-2024, 09:55 PM

You "Knowingly" participated in a transaction with the potential of getting nothing. You agreed to knowing this and consented. Onus is put on you to be honest participant and not game the system to benefit from misuse knowing full well of the intention.

If you know that getting nothing was a risk and still paid shipping for nothing, your best move forward was not to participate at all. But you did and which is a binding acceptance of the outcome. What you are attempting to do is go back on your paritpication for unlawful gain.

Most of the time I rather not getting anything if I dont hit decent cards. I ask breakers not to send anything of low value because storage space is more valuable than junk worthless base.

whitmm · 11-19-2024, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

You answered your own question. No purchase necessary is the most common way companies avoid gambling laws. It's literally why it's on every box of baseball cards.

Do we know what the listing the OP won said?

That's kind of the missing information.

OhioLawyerF5 · 11-19-2024, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitmm

Do we know what the listing the OP won said?

That's kind of the missing information.

Ebay didn't use to allow any sweepstakes. They recently switched to regulating it by only allowing approved breakers. In doing so, they banned random team breaks and require their approved breakers to follow the "lottery law" which requires no purchase necessary and an alternative method of entry. So they went from no sweepstakes to only sweepstakes as long as it's an approved breaker. Hobby Legends only began to include the NPN language when they became an approved breaker. They didn't always do that. They used to send something no matter what.

Regardless, we don't really need to know that info for OP, as he was mostly just ranting about the fact that breaking is no longer even pretending to not be gambling, it's a straight up sweepstakes now.

Quake1028 · 11-19-2024, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whitmm

How do Hobby Legends' auctions work with eBay's rules then? I see their listings call it a sweepstakes and have a no purchase necessary statement. They also have a statement that says you could receive nothing.

That's not exactly a fly by night breaker.

Hobby Legends 10000000% sends SOMETHING in the mail. You may only get a pack of cards or two and a pack of penny sleeves, but hey, they aren't just pocketing your shipping charge.

base set · 11-19-2024, 10:59 PM

The original listing is totally irrelevant and I did not give 2 turds that the player didn’t hit. I didn’t contact the breaker or ebay; this was 6 months ago. I generally just open my own boxes & packs rather than buying into breaks. It was however boring AF to watch Hockey specialists struggle through a Baseball break, with numerous errors and missed significances of good $20 cards while they put every no name RC into plastic like it was a big deal. That’s rant-able. They knew nothing about the product ahead of time.

I just failed to understand how a breaker could sell probably scores of slots that didn’t generate cards, not send out any cards, and then what happens next, given the workings of e-commerce, as I didn’t have any experience with breaks so small that a “no cards” result was possible. The concept is perfectly understandable on a straight YouTube breaking channel as compared to having ebay as a 3rd party to the transaction.

Our Buckeye Lawyer has traced out a little current history of this very well. It doesn’t surprise that it has had to evolve some over the years, again on ebay. I enjoy my very occasional gambles on card purchases, I really don’t care how others do it. But I could definitely see challenges for businesses doing this, thus my questions. It’s good to be updated on this.

It does sound like pointlessly sending a business card is a thing of the past then, which is an improvement.

11-19-2024, 06:25 PM	#1
base set Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: NW Michigan Posts: 9,536	Player breaks that don’t hit any cards question What’s the Standard Operating Procedure here? Refund? At least shipping refund? I tried a gamble on a Heritage Mini this spring, lost 3 or 4 of my hard earned George Washingtons. The players were not hit, no refund though the bigger loss was the time wasted watching a bunch of Hockey goobers take my George Washingtons when they clearly knew little about el Beisból. How do most breakers handle this? What does eBay say about this straight up gambling on their platform - keep money for no package ever received? I didn’t launch a claim with Hockey Falls over $4. But I could see taking a lighter to a couple five GWs again some bored day.

11-19-2024, 06:59 PM	#4
Archangel1775 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Cali baby! Posts: 21,909	Group break protocol is designated by the breaker prior to. When nothing is hit, they usually mail random base cards to you to ensure a tangible transaction is made. I'm sure a $4 refund for shipping or base cards isn't going to appease the disappointment in your gamble. __________________ *There are the intangibles that set someone apart from the pack.So the blur isn't your inability to see his greatness, it's merely the inability to measure it.*

11-19-2024, 07:22 PM	#6
Archangel1775 Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Cali baby! Posts: 21,909	What were the breakers SOP? It's posted right? If you want you bass cards, just send them an email. I'm sure they'd send you $4 back too. Customer service is important but they gotta know you're unhappy. Companies get lazy sometimes. Are you considering a charge back? __________________ *There are the intangibles that set someone apart from the pack.So the blur isn't your inability to see his greatness, it's merely the inability to measure it.*

11-19-2024, 07:52 PM	#8
notfast Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Location: MD Posts: 4,051	Refund of what? __________________ notfast1 on IG.

11-19-2024, 07:56 PM	#9
QuinEarlyDoucet Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: MI Posts: 13,843	Sucks for you Op __________________ Bring me your Tim Brown cards.

11-19-2024, 06:29 PM	#2
vwnut13 Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Vermont Posts: 6,126	You understand how a group break works, right?

11-19-2024, 06:48 PM	#3
base set Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: NW Michigan Posts: 9,536	Yeah, completely. I don’t dabble in them often but have just always done team breaks. No guarantees, yaddayadda. Had just never seen one before that didn’t hit anything at all. Seemed like at least the shipping fee could come back. Just curious about the concept in that a small gesture like that could be a come-back-soon customer relations move. Have had breakers just randomly add other cards to poor results shipments.

11-19-2024, 07:17 PM	#5
base set Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: NW Michigan Posts: 9,536	Again, I didn’t even care. I knew what I was doing. But since it’s not how I collect, just wondering how the breaking (& ecommerce & money transfer) biz handles this. Sending out random base would be one strategy I expected, but didn’t experience. Even a couple times in the past when I received random bonus cards I presumed were supposed to soothe losers in the break, there wasn’t zero results before the relatively pointless add-ons. Is just an odd concept on ebay in particular, not other platforms, a transaction where only money is exchanged. Didn’t feel … sustainable, on ebay.

11-19-2024, 07:24 PM	#7
Rbradleigh Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Kent, WA Posts: 1,726	Do Casinos refund your losses?

11-19-2024, 08:04 PM	#10
MiamiMarlinsFan Member Join Date: Jun 2020 Location: Florida Posts: 13,756	What happens in Vegas when you put $50 on black and the roulette ball lands on red?

11-19-2024, 08:11 PM	#11
ATLSevarb Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Posts: 210	I contend that breaks w/out skunk protection are illegal (in some states) games of chance. Prove me wrong. (Please. As a victim of said games of chance in the Bible Belt). Edit to add: I’m being somewhat factious, but you can’t deny the grey area (again, in SOME states). Last edited by ATLSevarb; 11-19-2024 at 08:14 PM.

11-19-2024, 08:35 PM	#14
base set Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: NW Michigan Posts: 9,536	For the 4th time - I spent $4 on a lottery and got nothing. I didn’t care. I didn’t bother to dig into the policy of that particular breaker and it is irrelevant now. Breaking is work and I paid $4 for the services rendered. I was a little sarcastic about the triviality, trying to keep the subject light. But it begs the question of what happens when other ebay customers spend $ and get - nothing. That’s not going to happen on a 100 caser. But for people selling 500 spots to break a handful of boxes, that’s gonna happen a lot. What does ebay do when a complaint comes in? Is one of my questions. My other is - what is the average decision here, by a breaker? Sending a random card would be one way to show a product was received. Is that common? Do some do refunds?

11-19-2024, 08:36 PM	#15
rms13 Member Join Date: Mar 2021 Location: California Posts: 7,040	Some will refund shipping, some will just ship you some commons or something else no value as a consolation prize.

11-19-2024, 09:17 PM	#18
whitmm Banned Join Date: Jan 2019 Location: Wisc Posts: 11,373	How do Hobby Legends' auctions work with eBay's rules then? I see their listings call it a sweepstakes and have a no purchase necessary statement. They also have a statement that says you could receive nothing. That's not exactly a fly by night breaker.

11-19-2024, 09:26 PM	#19
seanbros55 Member Join Date: Oct 2016 Location: From the 508 to the 707 Posts: 5,407	This is a troll post, right? I mean, what kind of turd with 9000 post starts this thread?

11-19-2024, 09:55 PM	#21
Orangejello727 Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 19,093	You "Knowingly" participated in a transaction with the potential of getting nothing. You agreed to knowing this and consented. Onus is put on you to be honest participant and not game the system to benefit from misuse knowing full well of the intention. If you know that getting nothing was a risk and still paid shipping for nothing, your best move forward was not to participate at all. But you did and which is a binding acceptance of the outcome. What you are attempting to do is go back on your paritpication for unlawful gain. Most of the time I rather not getting anything if I dont hit decent cards. I ask breakers not to send anything of low value because storage space is more valuable than junk worthless base.

11-19-2024, 10:59 PM	#25
base set Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: NW Michigan Posts: 9,536	The original listing is totally irrelevant and I did not give 2 turds that the player didn’t hit. I didn’t contact the breaker or ebay; this was 6 months ago. I generally just open my own boxes & packs rather than buying into breaks. It was however boring AF to watch Hockey specialists struggle through a Baseball break, with numerous errors and missed significances of good $20 cards while they put every no name RC into plastic like it was a big deal. That’s rant-able. They knew nothing about the product ahead of time. I just failed to understand how a breaker could sell probably scores of slots that didn’t generate cards, not send out any cards, and then what happens next, given the workings of e-commerce, as I didn’t have any experience with breaks so small that a “no cards” result was possible. The concept is perfectly understandable on a straight YouTube breaking channel as compared to having ebay as a 3rd party to the transaction. Our Buckeye Lawyer has traced out a little current history of this very well. It doesn’t surprise that it has had to evolve some over the years, again on ebay. I enjoy my very occasional gambles on card purchases, I really don’t care how others do it. But I could definitely see challenges for businesses doing this, thus my questions. It’s good to be updated on this. It does sound like pointlessly sending a business card is a thing of the past then, which is an improvement.