I don’t think buying baseball cards is gambling

[ScooterD]

In the past 2-3 years, posts in this forum have focused on gambling and gamblers. Why is that?

The courts have found that buying sports cards is not gambling, so why do people keep saying that it is or calling others who participate in the hobby/business “gamblers,” “degenerate gamblers,” “Johns,” “muppets,” “Fozzies,” etc?

Prices have gone up - yes - and I understand why people aren’t happy with that; however, why are there so many posts focused on “gamblers” and “gambling” when the price point is set by the manufacturer or retailer (not the customer - they are only justification).

[Poorboy]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

In the past 2-3 years, posts in this forum have focused on gambling and gamblers. Why is that?

The courts have found that buying sports cards is not gambling, so why do people keep saying that it is or calling others who participate in the hobby/business “gamblers,” “degenerate gamblers,” “Johns,” “muppets,” “Fozzies,” etc?

Prices have gone up - yes - and I understand why people aren’t happy with that; however, why are there so many posts focused on “gamblers” and “gambling” when the price point is set by the manufacturer or retailer (not the customer - they are only justification).

[Big35Hurt]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

In the past 2-3 years, posts in this forum have focused on gambling and gamblers. Why is that?

The courts have found that buying sports cards is not gambling, so why do people keep saying that it is or calling others who participate in the hobby/business “gamblers,” “degenerate gamblers,” “Johns,” “muppets,” “Fozzies,” etc?

Prices have gone up - yes - and I understand why people aren’t happy with that; however, why are there so many posts focused on “gamblers” and “gambling” when the price point is set by the manufacturer or retailer (not the customer - they are only justification).

I dunno...could be because so many people are non-collectors who are just in it hoping for a big hit and the associated payday when it comes to breaks? Or they're buying cards by the box or case themselves also hoping for the big hit. How is that different than buying a scratch off lottery ticket? Why bother stating the odds then as well?

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by Big35Hurt

I dunno...could be because so many people are non-collectors who are just in it hoping for a big hit and the associated payday when it comes to breaks? Or they're buying cards by the box or case themselves also hoping for the big hit. How is that different than buying a scratch off lottery ticket? Why bother stating the odds then as well?

I agree with the sentiment, but that’s not new. The hobby/business ignores it for 75 years, and then focuses on it in the last 2-3 years? Why?

[KhalDrogo]

Let me guess. You think trading 0DTE options isn’t ever gambling either.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

Let me guess. You think trading 0DTE options isn’t ever gambling either.

Honestly, I don’t understand what you just posted. I can’t comment on that.

[Bosoxfan5990]

I think you're wrong.

[mc1]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

I agree with the sentiment, but that’s not new. The hobby/business ignores it for 75 years, and then focuses on it in the last 2-3 years? Why?

2-3 years? It has been longer than that.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

I think you're wrong.

And I respect the opinion - just disagree and trying to understand it.

Can you elaborate as to what has changed in the last 2-3(ish) years that makes the courts wrong on the subject?

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by mc1

2-3 years? It has been longer than that.

Used round numbers, but many more posts about it in recent years

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

And I respect the opinion - just disagree and trying to understand it.

Can you elaborate as to what has changed in the last 2-3(ish) years that makes the courts wrong on the subject?

Established bounties from the manufacturers themselves.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

Established bounties from the manufacturers themselves.

How does that play into the courts’ definitions of gambling?

[Boo]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

In the past 2-3 years, posts in this forum have focused on gambling and gamblers. Why is that?

The courts have found that buying sports cards is not gambling, so why do people keep saying that it is or calling others who participate in the hobby/business “gamblers,” “degenerate gamblers,” “Johns,” “muppets,” “Fozzies,” etc?

Prices have gone up - yes - and I understand why people aren’t happy with that; however, why are there so many posts focused on “gamblers” and “gambling” when the price point is set by the manufacturer or retailer (not the customer - they are only justification).

To be fair, there is only one post on the entire board that uses the word “fozzies”.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by Boo

To be fair, there is only one post on the entire board that uses the word “fozzies”.

You’ve been around - any insight on the matter?

[Big35Hurt]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

I agree with the sentiment, but that’s not new. The hobby/business ignores it for 75 years, and then focuses on it in the last 2-3 years? Why?

True, but didn't the hobby seem to explode during Covid and would align with the last 2-3 years statement? It's not an influx of new collectors for the most part from what I have read. It's an influx of people trying to make a quick buck by taking chances with breakers or their own box/case breaks. I may be completely wrong on all counts as I took an extended break from the hobby and have come back, albeit rather slowly (just one card show attended in early December), no Ebay purchases, and only a couple of new cards bought to add to my PC.

[KhalDrogo]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

How does that play into the courts’ definitions of gambling?

So you view all group break participants as collectors or investors? Or what exactly if they’re not gambling?

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by Big35Hurt

True, but didn't the hobby seem to explode during Covid and would align with the last 2-3 years statement? It's not an influx of new collectors for the most part from what I have read. It's an influx of people trying to make a quick buck by taking chances with breakers or their own box/case breaks. I may be completely wrong on all counts as I took an extended break from the hobby and have come back, albeit rather slowly (just one card show attended in early December), no Ebay purchases, and only a couple of new cards bought to add to my PC.

Agree with everything you said, but it doesn’t make what we have done gambling. It just means that there are more parties involved that are more interested in money than the hobby/business.

[johnlocke36]

Imagine how much more money everyone would have if every dollar they spent on modern wax/breaks just went into slot machines instead. It's not gambling because when you actually gamble your gonna get somewhere between a 95-102% ROI and thats ignoring the AP opporunities

[Bosoxfan5990]

I'm done responding as I see where this discussion is going.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by KhalDrogo

So you view all group break participants as collectors or investors? Or what exactly if they’re not gambling?

People who pay money for unknown items from defined teams or serial numbers. That’s my best answer. It’s been happening since the 90s, and no one called it gambling.

If it was gambling, breakers would require age verification. They don’t - so it isn’t gambling. It IS “a gamble,” but so it driving a car to the LCS

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by Bosoxfan5990

I'm done responding as I see where this discussion is going.

We have engaged on these board before - we don’t have a problem with each other. My only interest is trying to understand where everyone is coming from. If I’m wrong, I’ll accept that.

[hermanotarjeta]

Breakers enabled the poors to participate in high end products.

The culture transformed the fiscally irresponsible into degenerates who pay higher than they need to in order to get their fix.

If breaking was banned and junkies were only allowed to purchase entire sealed boxes to open, prices would be a lot lower as the demand from the poor masses would decline significantly.

[mc1]

Buying and collecting baseball cards is not gambling.

Buying into breaks solely looking to hit big, grade and sell a huge card is probably gambling. Heck, buying into breaks to hit cards of players you collect and like is also gambling. Especially if you could buy many more singles of that player for cheaper. EDIT: There was a thread with this scenario but cannot find it. It gives a good insight into the gambler mentality running rampant.

[ScooterD]

Originally Posted by mc1

Buying and collecting baseball cards is not gambling.

Buying into breaks solely looking to hit big, grade and sell a huge card is probably gambling. Heck, buying into breaks to hit cards of players you collect and like is also gambling. Especially if you could buy many more singles of that player for cheaper. EDIT: There was a thread with this scenario but cannot find it. It gives a good insight into the gambler mentality running rampant.

But there are posts today saying that people who buy boxes (not breaks) are gamblers, too. Besides, breaking (while more wide spread now) has been around since at least the late-80s. No one said anything about gambling at that time, and it’s still legal for people under 18… so legally is not gambling.

[Bosoxfan5990]

Originally Posted by ScooterD

We have engaged on these board before - we don’t have a problem with each other. My only interest is trying to understand where everyone is coming from. If I’m wrong, I’ll accept that.

Every response in this thread has just been moving goalposts. I have no additional interest in responding in this specific thread.