In my opinion, a very unethical practice in the hobby is.

[paul06901]

Resending cards to BGS for a "bump" in the grade.

It's sad that it works, but its still shady for sellers that do this.

Including $$$ bribes, as well as submitting high end cards multiple times until it gets slabbed with a gold label.

To me, its just as scummy as shilling. Purposely trying to increase the value of a card in a shady manner.

I understand its BGS' fault more than any, but it still irks me that people (even people on here) constantly do this to profit.

Its one thing if the card is ungraded then sent in for grading in hopes of a 9.5.
But if its sent in as a 9 with a note or $$$ or even nothing just in hopes of a bump for a grade, its subtly implying they want their card upgraded, whether its condition-worthy or not.


This is why we're seeing SOOOOOOO many BGS 9.5 cards appearing in the past few years.



I send my cards in, which I have done ONCE. Sent in RAW, received 2 BGS 9.5 and a handful of 9 and 8.5s. Received the grades and dealt with it. That's how it should be.

[coolz]

Exactly!!!!!!!
and BGS is not credible to me...

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by paul06901

Resending cards to BGS for a "bump" in the grade.

It's sad that it works, but its still shady for sellers that do this.

Including $$$ bribes, as well as submitting high end cards multiple times until it gets slabbed with a gold label.

To me, its just as scummy as shilling. Purposely trying to increase the value of a card in a shady manner.

I understand its BGS' fault more than any, but it still irks me that people (even people on here) constantly do this to profit.

Its one thing if the card is ungraded then sent in for grading in hopes of a 9.5.
But if its sent in as a 9 with a note or $$$ or even nothing just in hopes of a bump for a grade, its subtly implying they want their card upgraded, whether its condition-worthy or not.


This is why we're seeing SOOOOOOO many BGS 9.5 cards appearing in the past few years.



I send my cards in, which I have done ONCE. Sent in RAW, received 2 BGS 9.5 and a handful of 9 and 8.5s. Received the grades and dealt with it. That's how it should be.

The bumping of cards throws accuracy of grades out the window. D&A and a few big dealers were doing this years ago. They would pick up BGS 9s , send them to PSA to get 10s then revert them back for submissions for BGS 9.5s. During the crazy era of Vince rookies and limited gem mint gold labels, it was a huge business. Spend $30 submitting back and forth and you could get a $200 card to be sell for $5000.

Its a pretty well notion in the industry that if you spend enough money, you will end up with favorable grades. Totally slimey in my opinion.

I remember going to shows and seeing the BGS guys at the submital booths. They always had gawdy gold Rolexs on. Gee wonder where they get that type of money to buy $40k watches?

[armyatc22]

Ive never heard of anyone sending in bribes

Whats wong with breaking it out of the case and resubmitting it. The person has every right in the world to do this and they are also paying to get it graded over and over so its not like its just given.

I have never submitted anything myself outside of a few group sub's its too much work on my end IMO to get back a crappy grade

[alexlazarevich]

"The strength of ones moral ethics are inversely proportional to the amount of wealth that is at stake." - not sure who said this?

BGS could easily stop the practice of regrading cards - just reject any card that's already been graded. Of they won't do that, because they suffer (or gain?) from the above law of human nature, just like most of us do. It's the rare few that can resist the law.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by armyatc22

Ive never heard of anyone sending in bribes

Whats wong with breaking it out of the case and resubmitting it. The person has every right in the world to do this and they are also paying to get it graded over and over so its not like its just given.

I have never submitted anything myself outside of a few group sub's its too much work on my end IMO to get back a crappy grade

So how does a BGS 9 become a BGS 9.5? When you first graded, arent you paying money to have it professional graded properly? If its professionally graded then bumped, doesnt that mean it was never graded properly? So what good is a BGS 9.5? Its as good as a BGS 9? because a BGS 9 can be bumped if you spend enough money?

[screamingdc]

Grading is always different though. Ask 10 guys to grade 1 card and there might be differences in opinion on if it is a 9 or a 9.5. Works the other way too, that a grade might drop. Never heard of actual bribes, but if true, that just destroys any grading company's reputation.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by screamingdc

Grading is always different though. Ask 10 guys to grade 1 card and there might be differences in opinion on if it is a 9 or a 9.5. Works the other way too, that a grade might drop. Never heard of actual bribes, but if true, that just destroys any grading company's reputation.

Most of it is speculation and from stories you hear at shows. Its so hard to catch and convict someone in an industry where there are no regulations.

[BenMoss84]

This is yet just another example of dealers turning this hobby into a sleazy money hustle. They will gets theirs eventually and so will BGS if this is true. Crap as it is the hobby is on it's last legs... So they better get whatever they can now cause 20-30 years down the road they'll all he out of work!

[burke23]

Grading is subjective...an opionion basically. Anyone who will only take one 'opionion' on the grade of their card (if their own opinion would assess the condition differently) is foolishly leaving money on the table.

There is nothing amoral or unethical on the hobbyist side about it. I don't have a problem on the third-party grader side either (all major grading companies will 'review' cards previously graded in their own slab). They realize too that their own graders may not get it right the first time. If it were true that bribes (or any other factors) would be the cause for certain submitters to get better (undeserved) grades, that is another story.

[dthimesch]

Without a robot or a computer or some exact science doing all the work this is the stuff that will happen. Whenever something is subjective your going to get that type of stuff. Plus who's to say that the cards you sent in and your handfuls of 8.5's you said you got shouldn't actually be 9's and the only reason why you got them is because the grader's hands that your cards fell into was having personal problems at home, was having a bad day because of it, and graded some hell of nice cards a bunch of 8.5's ??

[paul06901]

Originally Posted by burke23

Grading is subjective...an opionion basically. Anyone who will only take one 'opionion' on the grade of their card (if their own opinion would assess the condition differently) is foolishly leaving money on the table.

There is nothing amoral or unethical on the hobbyist side about it. I don't have a problem on the third-party grader side either (all major grading companies will 'review' cards previously graded in their own slab). They realize too that their own graders may not get it right the first time. If it were true that bribes (or any other factors) would be the cause for certain submitters to get better (undeserved) grades, that is another story.

The whole point is, it's not unethical to crack the card out of the case, then resubmit.

It IS however unethical, if the card is resent with the original grade on the card still. Why resend a card that's already graded? Oh yeah, to ENCOURAGE a bump in the grade. You wont see BGS receiving a card for regarde thats a 9 and sending it back a 8.5 ... thats for sure.


And again, with those individuals who include $$$, or have "ins" with said grading companies.

THAT is the problem, not that the grading is subjective, which it surely is. That issue can be solved with simply cracking and re-sending raw for a re-grade.

[dthimesch]

Originally Posted by paul06901

The whole point is, it's not unethical to crack the card out of the case, then resubmit.

It IS however unethical, if the card is resent with the original grade on the card still. Why resend a card that's already graded? Oh yeah, to ENCOURAGE a bump in the grade. You wont see BGS receiving a card for regarde thats a 9 and sending it back a 8.5 ... thats for sure.


And again, with those individuals who include $$$, or have "ins" with said grading companies.

THAT is the problem, not that the grading is subjective, which it surely is. That issue can be solved with simply cracking and re-sending raw for a re-grade.

Wrong it's not to encourage a bump. It's to ask for a second OPINION. When you go to the doctor and you don't like what he says you go to a second do ore for a different OPINION. Is it unethical because you should have just taken the first doctors word for it?

[XARZY]

Ive sent cards in to grading ONCE and all 3 cards came back 9 or less. 1 of the 9s was 9.5+ on everything except surface which had a mysterious 8.5 and the big one a Kevin Durant Ultimate auto rc/150 came back a 9 with a blatant ding that was made by them. If I was to resubmit that card I woulda gotten a definate 8.5 or less. I def. dislike becketts practices...

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by dthimesch

Without a robot or a computer or some exact science doing all the work this is the stuff that will happen. Whenever something is subjective your going to get that type of stuff. Plus who's to say that the cards you sent in and your handfuls of 8.5's you said you got shouldn't actually be 9's and the only reason why you got them is because the grader's hands that your cards fell into was having personal problems at home, was having a bad day because of it, and graded some hell of nice cards a bunch of 8.5's ??

Thats unprofessional. If im paying money this shouldnt happen. Maybe they need to get real professionals in their that dont let emotion play a factor in their duties. Imagine a fund manager telling his investors he lost billions today because he was on a winning streak at the casino so he let your portfolio ride today!??

[dthimesch]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

Thats unprofessional. If im paying money this shouldnt happen. Maybe they need to get real professionals in their that dont let emotion play a factor in their duties. Imagine a fund manager telling his investors he lost billions today because he was on a winning streak at the casino so he let your portfolio ride today!??

Your right, BUT do you really believe emotions don't play a roll in sooooooooooo many decisions on a daily basis?

Your hedge fund manager is smart enough to not let someone's portfolio ride because of a winning streak at a casino but whose to say he won't recommend or put your money into something he may have had a little luck with on the side or because he knows people at a certain company, and opps there goes the stocks value.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by dthimesch

Your right, BUT do you really believe emotions don't play a roll in sooooooooooo many decisions on a daily basis?

I dont believe that. But I wouldnt want it to be an excuse as to why I lose money or im out something. I dont doubt it happens.

[paul06901]

Originally Posted by dthimesch

Wrong it's not to encourage a bump. It's to ask for a second OPINION. When you go to the doctor and you don't like what he says you go to a second do ore for a different OPINION. Is it unethical because you should have just taken the first doctors word for it?

I specifically said when resubmitting a GRADED card.

If a card is being sent back to them already graded, its ENCOURAGING a bump.

If a second opinion is wanted, the card should be sent back cracked out of the case and RAW for an *UNBIASED* opinion.

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by paul06901

I specifically said when resubmitting a GRADED card.

If a card is being sent back to them already graded, its ENCOURAGING a bump.

If a second opinion is wanted, the card should be sent back cracked out of the case and RAW for an *UNBIASED* opinion.

I agree. If you want to resubmit a card you shouldnt send it back in the graded holder. It should be re graded from raw again.

[GarnettFan4Life]

Originally Posted by Orangejello727

I agree. If you want to resubmit a card you shouldnt send it back in the graded holder. It should be re graded from raw again.

totally agree

[XARZY]

If an Item is for PC and graded low i.e. Hairyangryfellas WILT I wouldent mind getting it reslabbed Authentic Via IP @ Card Show or via PSA.

I Like graded cards just not Beckett as a company

[Orangejello727]

Originally Posted by dthimesch

Your right, BUT do you really believe emotions don't play a roll in sooooooooooo many decisions on a daily basis?

Your hedge fund manager is smart enough to not let someone's portfolio ride because of a winning streak at a casino but whose to say he won't recommend or put your money into something he may have had a little luck with on the side or because he knows people at a certain company, and opps there goes the stocks value.

Yea but thats bringing emotions into the game. Who is to say a fund manager doesnt do that? Controlling emotions is tough like you said.

As for your example of getting a 2nd opinion from another doctor? I dont agree with that. Because if you want an unbiased opinion from another doctor, then that doctor should not know what the original doctor has already diagnosed on you. Because that cant deter his opinion as well. Just like a regrade card shouldnt be sent in for regrade in its original holder.

[FrankieP]

I agree, but anything that is subjected to an opinion is asking for this. The same thing happens with authenticating autographs. One person says it fake, another person or even company says it’s real.

Opinions are like belly buttons (trying to keep it clean), everyone has one and they all look different.

[hairyangryfella]

Originally Posted by XARZY

Ive sent cards in to grading ONCE and all 3 cards came back 9 or less. 1 of the 9s was 9.5+ on everything except surface which had a mysterious 8.5 and the big one a Kevin Durant Ultimate auto rc/150 came back a 9 with a blatant ding that was made by them. If I was to resubmit that card I woulda gotten a definate 8.5 or less. I def. dislike becketts practices...

Yet people still send thousands of cards to them without even caring... I learned my lesson, warned people, about a handful took notice, everyone else will just keep sending 'em in...

Originally Posted by XARZY

If an Item is for PC and graded low i.e. Hairyangryfellas WILT I wouldent mind getting it reslabbed Authentic Via IP @ Card Show or via PSA.

I Like graded cards just not Beckett as a company

I quite like the three 9.5 subgrades though, and since I won't likely move the card I'll just keep it like it is...

And yeah, I have no respect anymore for Beckett, just like ebay and Panini... They wouldn't even consider refunding the grading as a gesture of goodwill, so they lost any chance at future business from me (and I do have a couple I wouldn't mind being graded).

[BeingJustin]

Originally Posted by hairyangryfella

Yet people still send thousands of cards to them without even caring... I learned my lesson, warned people, about a handful took notice, everyone else will just keep sending 'em in...



I quite like the three 9.5 subgrades though, and since I won't likely move the card I'll just keep it like it is...

And yeah, I have no respect anymore for Beckett, just like ebay and Panini... They wouldn't even consider refunding the grading as a gesture of goodwill, so they lost any chance at future business from me (and I do have a couple I wouldn't mind being graded).

*pats on back* its still a beautiful card. 9.5, 9.5, 9.5 all look awesome. Friggin 3 is ugly but that's about the lamest customer service ever! I been havin trouble lately with COMC. Cards being sent that just looked totaly dinged up but there scans don't show it. Have a feeling there new crew is acting to fast on packaging cards.