NHL Awards Discussion Thread

[GoJays]

After hearing Ted Lindsay mispronounce Evgeni Malkin's name I thought I'd start a thread!

So far Karlsson won the Norris, Malkin wins the Pearson (or Lindsay I guess), and they're about to hand out the Jack Adams.

[GoJays]

Lol, Hitchcock just made a Viking, Alberta reference that nobody got .

Congrats to Hitchcock btw. Really deserves the award.

[ilovethelakings]

Originally Posted by GoJays

After hearing Ted Lindsay mispronounce Evgeni Malkin's name I thought I'd start a thread!

So far Karlsson won the Norris, Malkin wins the Pearson (or Lindsay I guess), and they're about to hand out the Jack Adams.

I think it's cool that the guy who has a trophy named after him is the one who gave it to this season's winner. I'm still waiting for the Hart or Art Ross to be renamed after Gretzky.

[GoJays]

Originally Posted by ilovethelakings

I think it's cool that the guy who has a trophy named after him is the one who gave it to this season's winner. I'm still waiting for the Hart or Art Ross to be renamed after Gretzky.

I'd rather not see that. Renaming it the Lindsay award was okay with me because A) the award was only 40 years old, B) Nobody south of Viking, Alberta knows who Lester B. Pearson was and C) Pearson wasn't that great a prime minister. Renaming the Hart or Art Ross would be changing the name of awards over 80 years old (for the Hart).

Art Ross was one of the longest tenured employees of the NHL, and was one of the better defensemen of all time. He's really deserved of the naming rights.

[ilovethelakings]

Originally Posted by GoJays

I'd rather not see that. Renaming it the Lindsay award was okay with me because A) the award was only 40 years old, B) Nobody south of Viking, Alberta knows who Lester B. Pearson was and C) Pearson wasn't that great a prime minister. Renaming the Hart or Art Ross would be changing the name of awards over 80 years old (for the Hart).

Art Ross was one of the longest tenured employees of the NHL, and was one of the better defensemen of all time. He's really deserved of the naming rights.

Meh. 40 years, 80 years. It makes little difference to me. It's not like it would be changing either award's name to a flash in the pan type of player. The NHL's greatest player, and possibly an even greater ambassador for the game, deserves an award to be named after him. At the very least, they should make an award named after him for each season's assist leader. They did it for The Rocket with goal scoring leader award, so why not for the assist king?

[BAMBAM]

How do you win an award for best d-man when you don't even kill penalties and never hit anyone ? Nothing against Karlsson, as he had a big year offensively but that's about all he does so I'd have given it to Weber this year.

[GoJays]

Originally Posted by BAMBAM

How do you win an award for best d-man when you don't even kill penalties and never hit anyone ? Nothing against Karlsson, as he had a big year offensively but that's about all he does so I'd have given it to Weber this year.

Thing is he was so far ahead in points I don't see how he doesn't get it. People compare him to Mike Green in 2009-10 when he scored 76 points and lost, but its a completely different scenario. Green only had a 7 point lead over the eventual winner Duncan Keith. Karlsson had a 25 point lead over the next closest defenseman and a 26 point lead over the closest other nominee. When its that large a difference I don't see how you don't give it to him. And let's not forget, plus-16 isn't a terrible rating at all. It isn't Chara numbers, but its very good.

Its so rare seeing a defenseman put up almost 80 points and have a 25 point lead. Plus-30 +/- numbers are seen on a regular occasion, but 80 point seasons are extremely rare.

[BAMBAM]

Yeah but even if you use his plus minus, at a +16, it's pretty weak considering he had all those points. Granted plus minus is not the best evaluator because so much factors into it but Karlsson is a one trick pony and is more like a forward playing defense because he's average at best in his own end. Weber was the best all around defensemen in the game last year, that's what the award is supposed to be about but I guess not these days.

[The Madbacker]

I got distracted when Malkin was giving his MVP speech. Who did he thank at that end, someone he wants to meet?

[pskell02]

Just stopping in for a moment. Geno, Geno, Geno. Well deserved. Watching baseball so missed his speech. I'm sure it was that loveable broken, lost in translation, English that Pens fans love him for.

[GoJays]

Originally Posted by BAMBAM

Yeah but even if you use his plus minus, at a +16, it's pretty weak considering he had all those points. Granted plus minus is not the best evaluator because so much factors into it but Karlsson is a one trick pony and is more like a forward playing defense because he's average at best in his own end. Weber was the best all around defensemen in the game last year, that's what the award is supposed to be about but I guess not these days.

I wouldn't say Karlsson is a one trick pony. Hits and blocked shots aren't the best stats to analyze defensemen like Karlsson.

Let's look at Nicklas Lidstrom. If the Norris trophy was based solely on hits and blocked shots Nicklas Lidstrom would never have even been nominated.


And let's not forget both Chara and Lidstrom had all-star calibre defense partners. Erik Karlsson is working with Filip Kuba. Let's look at Kuba's stats: in 2010-11 Filip Kuba was a -26. In 2011-12, plus-26. That's a 52 +/- turnaround after being paired with Karlsson. Obviously, Karlsson is doing something right if he brought numbers like Kuba's up that much.


I also think I should point this out: the majority of the people bashing Karlsson have never actually seen him play and are basing this solely on stats. Have you watched Karlsson play (outside of the series against the Rangers)? This is a regular season award, yet the majority of his critics did not watch him play during the regular season.


And if you're wondering I watched about 40 sens games last year.

[GoJays]

Originally Posted by The Madbacker

I got distracted when Malkin was giving his MVP speech. Who did he thank at that end, someone he wants to meet?

I think he thanked Sergei Gonchar for some reason!

[GoJays]

What's the deal with c-list celebrities presenting the awards? Why can't we have NHL alumni handing out NHL awards?!

[avjp87]

well Giroux won the "honor" to be on the cover of NHL 13 so the rest of the awards can just be reported through a mass email

[MrSnyder]

I'm watching some of the awards scroll across the bottom - I apparently need to read up on some of the awards...

[cardboardkilla]

Geno!! Geno!! Geno!! Best player in the NHL 2012 carring on the long history of the best team in the NHL. Well deserved award, he busted his you know what every night he laced em up. Fraudey Giroux can have his silly video game cover that people will redo after a few weeks anyways. There is only one M.V.P. My thoughts Geno and Sid pass it back and fourth the next few years!! GO Pens!! We Love you Geno, we know you care about us Pens fans. Personally dont care if you mess up a few words.

[TASS]

Nce to see Bergy get the Selke!

[BAMBAM]

Originally Posted by GoJays

I wouldn't say Karlsson is a one trick pony. Hits and blocked shots aren't the best stats to analyze defensemen like Karlsson.

Let's look at Nicklas Lidstrom. If the Norris trophy was based solely on hits and blocked shots Nicklas Lidstrom would never have even been nominated.


And let's not forget both Chara and Lidstrom had all-star calibre defense partners. Erik Karlsson is working with Filip Kuba. Let's look at Kuba's stats: in 2010-11 Filip Kuba was a -26. In 2011-12, plus-26. That's a 52 +/- turnaround after being paired with Karlsson. Obviously, Karlsson is doing something right if he brought numbers like Kuba's up that much.


I also think I should point this out: the majority of the people bashing Karlsson have never actually seen him play and are basing this solely on stats. Have you watched Karlsson play (outside of the series against the Rangers)? This is a regular season award, yet the majority of his critics did not watch him play during the regular season.


And if you're wondering I watched about 40 sens games last year.

WTH are you talking about ? As I said before, plus minus is not a true measure of a player. That's like using wins to gauge pitchers in baseball. Why do you think he was paired with Kuba ? If anything, Kuba allowed him to freewheel because he was a bigger more defensive type defensemen They also had Craig Anderson and better goaltending this year so that helped the plus minus a lot compared to last year.

Are you really comparing Lidstrom in his own end to Karlsson ? That's crazy talk. You must not have seen many Lidstrom games to even throw his name out there. LOL Lidstrom was tremendous in his own end because he played angles and used positioning to his advantage. He also was a regular on the PK unit. As I said, if Karlsson is so good in his own end why doesn't he have a regular spot on the PK unit ? Teams use their top 4 d-men on the PK so what does that tell you about Karlsson when his own team doesn't feel comfortable using him ? He's a one trick pony and he happens to be very good at it but he isn't anything to brag about in his own end.

[BAMBAM]

Originally Posted by cardboardkilla

Geno!! Geno!! Geno!! Best player in the NHL 2012 carring on the long history of the best team in the NHL. Well deserved award, he busted his you know what every night he laced em up. Fraudey Giroux can have his silly video game cover that people will redo after a few weeks anyways. There is only one M.V.P. My thoughts Geno and Sid pass it back and fourth the next few years!! GO Pens!! We Love you Geno, we know you care about us Pens fans. Personally dont care if you mess up a few words.

Ha you are too funny. Their "long history" isn't exactly stellar but if you've only been following since Crosby was drafted then I agree, they've been pretty good.

Fraudey Giroux ? I guess you missed the playoffs (very possible since the Pens weren't around long) because he finished among the top playoff scorers even though he only played 10 games Kids

[GoJays]

Originally Posted by BAMBAM

WTH are you talking about ? As I said before, plus minus is not a true measure of a player. That's like using wins to gauge pitchers in baseball. Why do you think he was paired with Kuba ? If anything, Kuba allowed him to freewheel because he was a bigger more defensive type defensemen They also had Craig Anderson and better goaltending this year so that helped the plus minus a lot compared to last year.

Are you really comparing Lidstrom in his own end to Karlsson ? That's crazy talk. You must not have seen many Lidstrom games to even throw his name out there. LOL Lidstrom was tremendous in his own end because he played angles and used positioning to his advantage. He also was a regular on the PK unit. As I said, if Karlsson is so good in his own end why doesn't he have a regular spot on the PK unit ? Teams use their top 4 d-men on the PK so what does that tell you about Karlsson when his own team doesn't feel comfortable using him ? He's a one trick pony and he happens to be very good at it but he isn't anything to brag about in his own end.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree. You seem to think Karlsson is a one-trick pony? Fine, I say differently. All we can agree on is that he's a fine player on an up-and-coming club.

And no I'm not comparing Karlsson to Lidstrom skill-wise, but their style of play is similar in the sense they aren't big hitters and don't block a ton of shots.

Karlsson is near the top of the NHL in takeaways by defensemen though, a stat that should not be forgotten.

But hey, you're entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to mine. The only way to settle this is to wait and see what unfolds next season. If Karlsson scores 95 points and +35 and the Sens finish tops in the division than I think I'll be right, but if Karlsson puts up 40 points and the Sens get Nathan McKinnon than you'll have won. We'll have to see.

Obviously the voters saw the same thing I saw in him though.

[BAMBAM]

Originally Posted by GoJays

Obviously the voters saw the same thing I saw in him though.

Yes we will disagree because as I said, the Norris obviously isn't about the best all around defenseman these days which IMO takes away from the award. Karlsson is a good player but I think most GMs would take Weber over Karlsson these days.

If he scores 100 points next year but still doesn't even kill penalties because he is still suspect in his own end, then it really doesn't change anything and we'll continue to disagree.

[Crusader71]

So glad that the Norris was the 1st trophy so after Karlsson won I shut it off so YEAH SENS!!!!

[GoJays]

Originally Posted by BAMBAM

Yes we will disagree because as I said, the Norris obviously isn't about the best all around defenseman these days which IMO takes away from the award. Karlsson is a good player but I think most GMs would take Weber over Karlsson these days.

If he scores 100 points next year but still doesn't even kill penalties because he is still suspect in his own end, then it really doesn't change anything and we'll continue to disagree.

I did say if he scores 100 points and gets +35. Tough to disagree with me then

I was doing a little research and found that Karlsson lead the league in takeaways by a defenseman with 67, the next closest defenseman being Shea Weber with 51. Is he an offensive minded defenseman yes, but I think this stat shows that he does play some defense.

I imagine the takeaway stat probably helped his odds.

[GoJays]

Originally Posted by Crusader71

So glad that the Norris was the 1st trophy so after Karlsson won I shut it off so YEAH SENS!!!!

Wait, you're from Winnipeg and you're a Sens fan? How does that work?!

Of course I'm from Ottawa and I'm a Leaf fan so I'm not one to talk, but come on man, how can you hate the Jets?! Loudest rink in the league!

[BAMBAM]

Originally Posted by GoJays

I imagine the takeaway stat probably helped his odds.

Well it's didn't help Datysuk win the Selke as he led all forwards in takeaways again this year.

Too add, you can question anything when it comes to awards like this. How is the rookie goal scoring leader (Matt Read) not even a finalist for the Calder ?
How is Torts an Adams finalist when he had the Vezina winning goalie and added whom many considered the top FA forward last year in Richards to an already solid team ?