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BASKETBALL Post your Basketball Cards Hobby Talk |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 18
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1986 fleer Jordan RC was the first ever trading card I knew about. So I've been very interested in the 86 fleer sequence.
I've found 7 pack break results (never opened one myself) and a very good post about the sequence (don't know if I can post the link here). That post pointed out the 66 cards apart rule but didn't say much about the mid-pack "flip". According to the pack break data I found (mostly from youtube) I'm pretty sure the flip is not completely random. The flip occurs because the sequence hits the left end of the uncut sheet (1, or 12, or ... or 111 or 122). And after the flip the sequence starts from the right end, 11, or 22, or ... or 121 or 132. The meanig of this is, you will never get a #57 Jordan because of a mid-pack flip, which means you can know if a Jordan is inside just by looking at the first card of a pack. But thers's still one thing, every box of 86 fleer contains 3 sets and another 36 cards, I still don't know how these 36 extra cards were arranged into packs. Anyone can shed some light on this ![]() |
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#2 | |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,740
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#3 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 18
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#4 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: All the girls see the (boi)/ Look at his flips / Look at his kards / All they say is (oh boi).
Posts: 54,432
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Taken directly from another forum:
A complete, unsearched box yields 3 or 4 Jordans, no more, no less. For that matter, it yields 3 or 4 of every card, no more, no less. Fleer's collation was excellent during the 80s basketball years. 36 packs per box x 12 cards per pack = 432 cards per box 432 cards per box divided by 132 cards per set = 3.27 sets per box So in addition to getting three sets per box, there's a 27% chance of finding a fourth Jordan, Barkley, Ewing, etc. This math holds true for the stickers as well. Since the mid 70s when Topps went to a single series printing through the 90s when short prints were introduced back into the hobby, it has been all about the math. You simply cannot average a Rickey Henderson rookie per 1980 Topps wax box; the math does not support it. You can't average a Griffey rookie per 1989 Upper Deck wax box (low or high); the math does not support it, no matter how bad the collation is. Mike's description of the sequence is sort of correct. The cards fall in two parallel reverse alphabetical order sequence, alternating cards, 66 cards apart. Not counting the sticker (which is randomly paired with the 12 cards, but still follows the same mathematical insertion rate), starting from the top card (face up, next to the gum), a pack may look like this: #58 Clark Kellogg #123 Buck Williams #57 Michael Jordan #122 Gerald Wilkins #56 Vinnie Johnson #121 Dominique Wilkins #55 Steve Johnson #120 Spud Webb #54 Marques Johnson #119 Bill Walton #53 Magic Johnson #118 Jay Vincent When you see what an uncut sheet looks like, you can see why the cards are collated this way.
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#5 world ranked Ledell Eackles superclection as recognized by Tuff Stuff junior managing editor, Barry McCaulkinner. Somethin' like a cross between Teddy Aguhob and Kaboom Mystery Packs. I got that Givenchy denim flow.
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#5 |
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 21,236
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Excellent information ninjacookies!
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#6 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,750
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Whoa, whoa, whoa...before I prescribe to this "theory", I need more proof.
We need to see SEVERAL box breaks ON VIDEO seeing each card pulled from every pack before anyone should believe this. Then, and only then, would I even think of buying this. Cute though. |
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#7 | |
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https://www.youtube.com/user/jonzinck |
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#8 |
Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: NorCal
Posts: 955
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Yip, that is the correct sequence. Good way to tell if you've been purchasing resealed packs of ebay.
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#9 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 18
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7 pack break results I found
118,52,117,51,116,50,115,49,114,48,113,47 22,87,21,86,20,85,19,84,18,83,17,82 85,19,84,18,83,17,82,16,81,15,80,14 56,122,33,99,32,98,31,97,30,96,29,95 (flipped) 124,57,123,56,122,33,99,32,98,31,97,30 (flipped) 91,25,90,24,89,23,132,66,131,65,130,64 (flipped) 127,60,126,59,125,58,124,57,123,56,122,77 (flipped) |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 4,905
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So basically it is impossible to find an unsearched pack of this product?
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#11 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 4,207
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#12 |
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 18
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And 1 more flipped pack, thanks to jr24ai3's info
57,122,56,99,33,98,32,97,31,96,30,95 (and a Jordan sticker, a Jordan on the top and bottom) |
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#14 |
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 4,905
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#15 |
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,740
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BBC Exchange. The only place I will buy vintage wax from. He knows vintage packs inside and out. You can trust that he does not search his packs. People have received Jordan RCs, 1975 topps packs w/ a Yount or Brett RC showing, lots of good stuff.
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#16 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,750
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#17 |
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So you are one of those "We never landed on the moon" people?
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https://www.youtube.com/user/jonzinck |
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#18 |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,750
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#19 |
banned
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 6,420
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If you do a little research you can learn a lot... This has been known for a long time just another reason I won't even by graded packs of this product.
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#20 |
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,899
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The sequence thing is pretty well know. I've also seen threads where a "Jordan-less" pack by top card flips and yields a Jordan.
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They called me Mr. Glass. |
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#21 |
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If this was NEW information I would be right there with you - however this is ancient information.
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Currently looking for the following comic Books: United Comics: 21,22,23,24,26 Tip Top: 173 & 184 Peanuts 1 (1953) Peanuts: 1-4 (1963-64) |
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#22 |
Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,750
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Are there any videos out there of people actually breaking the packs open and showing this sequence? You would think someone would have done this by now to help prove this theory. Would like to see that.
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#23 | |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,740
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The idea that cards fall 66 cards apart is not a theory, that is fact. The idea that when a pack sequence flips it starts over at the end of a sheet is a theory. It's pretty expensive to break a full box to prove this to someone. It's only around $14k for a box. |
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#24 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,740
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And instead of all of us proving to you that it is fact, why don't you prove to us that it is not a fact? If it concerns you that much you can do your own research and show us your argument.
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#25 |
Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: IL
Posts: 1,550
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Are there any videos on this?
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Instagram: mikes_sportscards |
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