So....who wins the East now?

mfw13 · 08-22-2017, 10:52 PM

Cleveland or Boston?

Personally, I think this trade makes Boston the favorite because they got the best player, and because Crowder is/was a replaceable part who was going to lose playing time to Hayward/Brown/Tatum anyway.

But I think it's a decent return for Cleveland because it gives them the flexibility to go either way (rebuild or try to contend) depending on what LeBron does.

JustinVerlander07 · 08-22-2017, 10:52 PM

Boston, but either lose in 4-5 to a healthy Warriors squad.

tjforce · 08-22-2017, 11:04 PM

Cleveland.

Kyrie has won nothing on his own.

IT has at least shown leadership ability.

Lebron is light years better than Hayward.

the27guy · 08-22-2017, 11:05 PM

Is Isaiah healthy? Cleveland.

If not, probably Boston.

hofcollector2 · 08-22-2017, 11:06 PM

Boston easily.

Nyfancam01 · 08-22-2017, 11:07 PM

Lebron James.

ninjacookies · 08-22-2017, 11:12 PM

Wonder how many people who said Boston would actually put their hard earned money on that if forced to choose.

In the end, I just can't see the Lebron streak coming to an end.

Boston still doesn't have an interior and lost their best two on ball defenders during the offseason. Tatum is still a huge wildcard as he was balling out against D league hopefuls and a bunch of wet behind the ear 19 year olds in summer league.

JustinVerlander07 · 08-22-2017, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Wonder how many people who said Boston would actually put their hard earned money on that if forced to choose.

In the end, I just can't see the Lebron streak coming to an end.

Boston still doesn't have an interior and lost their best two on ball defenders during the offseason. Tatum is still a huge wildcard as he was balling out against D league hopefuls and a bunch of wet behind the ear 19 year olds in summer league.

I personally wouldn't bet money on either team. People seem to be forgetting Hayward signed with Boston. That is a big time addition.

smalltown · 08-22-2017, 11:14 PM

Toronto.

ThoseBackPages · 08-22-2017, 11:18 PM

to BE the man, you gotta BEAT the man!

-Bron

Goldminer · 08-22-2017, 11:23 PM

Boston, playing for/with Lebron has to suck. He really is a jerk

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gatorboymike · 08-22-2017, 11:23 PM

Kyrie will be too preoccupied with falling off the edge of the Earth to be effective in Boston.

ninjacookies · 08-22-2017, 11:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

I personally wouldn't bet money on either team. People seem to be forgetting Hayward signed with Boston. That is a big time addition.

I'd put every last red cent I owned on Cleveland without hesitation. Would have done the same last year and the year before also.

Hayward is an upgrade offensively, but does it really offset the loss of Crowder and AB?

I don't particularly think so. I guess that all depends on how much clout you put into Brown and a rookie.

Crowder and Brown could not stop Lebron last year, and Hayward certainly won't either. He'll have his way all day every day.

hofcollector2 · 08-22-2017, 11:41 PM

People also forget that we have not seen this current version of Kyrie (More mature, seasoned, Finals experience, Winner) lead a team. If Kyrie is as good as he thinks he is, people will be eating crow. I personally think he will be. This is his team 100%, this is what he wanted, now he will have to show us what he's got. No more excuses for him. If he leads this team anything like Harden, westbrook, ect, huge win for the Celtics.

JustinVerlander07 · 08-22-2017, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

I'd put every last red cent I owned on Cleveland without hesitation. Would have done the same last year and the year before also.

Hayward is an upgrade offensively, but does it really offset the loss of Crowder and AB?

I don't particularly think so. I guess that all depends on how much clout you put into Brown and a rookie.

Crowder and Brown could not stop Lebron last year, and Hayward certainly won't either. He'll have his way all day every day.

I think Crowder has become pretty overrated. The underrated aspect of him was always he signed this ridiculously team friendly contract since similar caliber players are now making $15-$20 million. He's a good player, he's not a star, he's not close to it.

I don't think Tatum will be much of a factor either. The addition of Morris is solid for trading Bradley, and I think Hayward will be much better than he's going to be given credit for.

ninjacookies · 08-22-2017, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinVerlander07

I think Crowder has become pretty overrated. The underrated aspect of him was always he signed this ridiculously team friendly contract since similar caliber players are now making $15-$20 million. He's a good player, he's not a star, he's not close to it.

I don't think Tatum will be much of a factor either. The addition of Morris is solid for trading Bradley, and I think Hayward will be much better than he's going to be given credit for.

Morris is solid, but for anyone who followed him at all last year, you will know he has a very apparent on and off switch. Chalk it up to the mental issues that continue to shadow the Morris twins. Who knows. Maybe this change of scenery and being on a winning franchise might change that a bit.

I agree Crowder has not been the same, but he's still a much better on-ball defender than either Morris or Hayward.

I'm not discrediting Hayward at all, he's a helluva player offensively and continues to evolve in that respect. But he's far from a cure for the Celtics defensive woes. They still have zero answer for Lebron, or Love and Tristan down on that low block.

TWard · 08-22-2017, 11:53 PM

The Knicks.

pennywise · 08-22-2017, 11:55 PM

Cavs have the better team on paper. Time will tell how well this group can play together. All the people saying "Boston, easily, hands down, etc" - I encourage you to go take a look at these 2 team's updated rosters, side by side. It's pretty clear that Cleveland has the edge. But who knows? That's the fun of it! I'm a believer of both Kyrie and Hayward, and I'll be pulling for the Celtics to win the East. I just don't see it happening. This off-season, the Cavs lost their star point guard but picked up another star point guard and upgraded their bench.

UltimateDeron · 08-23-2017, 12:04 AM

Boston Celtics.

Look at that roster. Wow.

the27guy · 08-23-2017, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninjacookies

Morris is solid, but for anyone who followed him at all last year, you will know he has a very apparent on and off switch. Chalk it up to the mental issues that continue to shadow the Morris twins. Who knows. Maybe this change of scenery and being on a winning franchise might change that a bit.

I agree Crowder has not been the same, but he's still a much better on-ball defender than either Morris or Hayward.

I'm not discrediting Hayward at all, he's a helluva player offensively and continues to evolve in that respect. But he's far from a cure for the Celtics defensive woes. They still have zero answer for Lebron, or Love and Tristan down on that low block.

Several advanced metrics had hayward as a top tier wing defender last season. Not saying he's a perfect answer for lebron, but he's better/bigger than most people realize.

I like this trade for bostons long term. Especially if Isaiah is not healthy. A young core of Hayward, kyrie, brown, and Tatum is a legit young group of talent. Even Hayward is still moving into his prime. should be top two in the east for 4-5 years, and probably longer.

steveo1996 · 08-23-2017, 12:13 AM

I feel like Cleveland bent the Celtics over like a cheap whore. Just sayin

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BruceS · 08-23-2017, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjforce

Cleveland.

Kyrie has won nothing on his own.

IT has at least shown leadership ability.

Lebron is light years better than Hayward.

Haha this is funny. Basketball is a team sports and what did Lebron win on his own?

jbettis32 · 08-23-2017, 03:32 AM

Cavs in for sure...

Celtics didn't address the problem as they load up all the PG, SG, and SF without any bigman on board, Al hordford is not the solution, and even the hardnose workhorse Olynik was gone too...

drobfan8 · 08-23-2017, 04:18 AM

Boston might believe LeBron is heading west after a season.

Then Boston will be able to celebrate just making the finals. Like LeBron fans do.

The Cs still have a problem at the 4 spot. But they do have a roster spot open.

I wonder if they could pick up Bogut on the cheap to back up Horford.

I still think the Cavs deserve to be favs, but it should be tight.

MyckKabongo · 08-23-2017, 04:22 AM

I'll say what I said in the other thread:

Celts are different but not necessarily better. People are expecting too much from Brown and Tatum, severely underrating how much Bradley and Crowder did for them, overrating Kyrie compared to IT, not worried enough by Horford's rapid decline and not appreciating how difficult it is to gel as a contender after that much roster turnover.

Seriously I can't get over the widespread sense of certitude that Kyrie is better than Isaiah right now. Talk about hype over facts. Some stats for you.

Pts/100 poss
Kyrie 35.9
IT4 42.4

Thomas had a better TS% on higher usage. Quite literally more efficient at a higher volume. He crushed Kyrie in advanced metrics.

08-22-2017, 10:52 PM	#1
mfw13 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 17,319	So....who wins the East now? Cleveland or Boston? Personally, I think this trade makes Boston the favorite because they got the best player, and because Crowder is/was a replaceable part who was going to lose playing time to Hayward/Brown/Tatum anyway. But I think it's a decent return for Cleveland because it gives them the flexibility to go either way (rebuild or try to contend) depending on what LeBron does.

08-22-2017, 10:52 PM	#2
JustinVerlander07 Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: michigan Posts: 16,985 gladdyontherise gladdyontherise	Boston, but either lose in 4-5 to a healthy Warriors squad. __________________ Collecting Justin Verlander, Detroit Tigers, Michigan State Spartans, Miz, Jey Uso, Kelani Jordan, Macho Man, WWE "Cavs in 7. Write it down"

08-22-2017, 11:04 PM	#3
tjforce Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 23,256	Cleveland. Kyrie has won nothing on his own. IT has at least shown leadership ability. Lebron is light years better than Hayward. __________________ "Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because it’s the best thing going. Wooooo!"

08-22-2017, 11:14 PM	#9
smalltown Member Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Canada Posts: 17,243 ifeature	Toronto. __________________ Collecting: Raptors, Canadian Basketball Players, Vintage & More. PC: https://www.instagram.com/smalltown.cards/

08-22-2017, 11:18 PM	#10
ThoseBackPages Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Long Island Posts: 89,705 ThoseBackPages	to BE the man, you gotta BEAT the man! -Bron __________________ Pumpers Paradise #YouCryIBuy Four things that we cannot change each others minds about: Politics, Religion, Third Party Grading, and 2021 Bowman's Best Rookie Cards

08-22-2017, 11:05 PM	#4
the27guy Member Join Date: Jan 2013 Posts: 14,673 the27guy the27guy	Is Isaiah healthy? Cleveland. If not, probably Boston.

08-22-2017, 11:06 PM	#5
hofcollector2 Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 2,869	Boston easily.

08-22-2017, 11:07 PM	#6
Nyfancam01 Banned Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: North Carolina Posts: 25,890 Nyfancam01 Nyfancam01	Lebron James.

08-22-2017, 11:12 PM	#7
ninjacookies Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: All the girls see the (boi)/ Look at his flips / Look at his kards / All they say is (oh boi). Posts: 56,689	Wonder how many people who said Boston would actually put their hard earned money on that if forced to choose. In the end, I just can't see the Lebron streak coming to an end. Boston still doesn't have an interior and lost their best two on ball defenders during the offseason. Tatum is still a huge wildcard as he was balling out against D league hopefuls and a bunch of wet behind the ear 19 year olds in summer league.

08-22-2017, 11:23 PM	#11
Goldminer Member Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 382	Boston, playing for/with Lebron has to suck. He really is a jerk Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G920A using Tapatalk

08-22-2017, 11:23 PM	#12
gatorboymike Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,012	Kyrie will be too preoccupied with falling off the edge of the Earth to be effective in Boston. __________________ Collecting: Mike Dunleavy \| Avery Johnson \| Marreese Speights Home Page - http://www.freewebs.com/gatorboymike/index.html Trade List & PC - https://www.flickr.com/photos/140575244@N02/albums

08-22-2017, 11:41 PM	#14
hofcollector2 Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Posts: 2,869	People also forget that we have not seen this current version of Kyrie (More mature, seasoned, Finals experience, Winner) lead a team. If Kyrie is as good as he thinks he is, people will be eating crow. I personally think he will be. This is his team 100%, this is what he wanted, now he will have to show us what he's got. No more excuses for him. If he leads this team anything like Harden, westbrook, ect, huge win for the Celtics.

08-22-2017, 11:53 PM	#17
TWard Banned Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Memphis Posts: 9,780 tylersportsguy	The Knicks.

08-22-2017, 11:55 PM	#18
pennywise Member Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: Austin Posts: 2,965	Cavs have the better team on paper. Time will tell how well this group can play together. All the people saying "Boston, easily, hands down, etc" - I encourage you to go take a look at these 2 team's updated rosters, side by side. It's pretty clear that Cleveland has the edge. But who knows? That's the fun of it! I'm a believer of both Kyrie and Hayward, and I'll be pulling for the Celtics to win the East. I just don't see it happening. This off-season, the Cavs lost their star point guard but picked up another star point guard and upgraded their bench. __________________ Penny Hardaway \| 90s stars \| San Antonio Spurs Instagram: pennyatthepoint "Why you no work. I work - You will work too!!!" - Michael Jordan

08-23-2017, 12:04 AM	#19
UltimateDeron Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 9,924	Boston Celtics. Look at that roster. Wow. __________________ Collection: https://www.flickr.com/photos/150426280@N07/ Instagram: @gem.city.sportscards

08-23-2017, 12:13 AM	#21
steveo1996 Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 315	I feel like Cleveland bent the Celtics over like a cheap whore. Just sayin Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

08-23-2017, 03:32 AM	#23
jbettis32 Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: HK Posts: 723 jbettis32	Cavs in for sure... Celtics didn't address the problem as they load up all the PG, SG, and SF without any bigman on board, Al hordford is not the solution, and even the hardnose workhorse Olynik was gone too...

08-23-2017, 04:18 AM	#24
drobfan8 Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 17,814 drobfan8 drobfan8	Boston might believe LeBron is heading west after a season. Then Boston will be able to celebrate just making the finals. Like LeBron fans do. The Cs still have a problem at the 4 spot. But they do have a roster spot open. I wonder if they could pick up Bogut on the cheap to back up Horford. I still think the Cavs deserve to be favs, but it should be tight. __________________ Wanted, 03/04 Exquisite Base Gold Tim Duncan and 05/06 Exquisite Base Gold /25 Michael Jordan

08-23-2017, 04:22 AM	#25
MyckKabongo Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 1,776 MyckKabongo	I'll say what I said in the other thread: Celts are different but not necessarily better. People are expecting too much from Brown and Tatum, severely underrating how much Bradley and Crowder did for them, overrating Kyrie compared to IT, not worried enough by Horford's rapid decline and not appreciating how difficult it is to gel as a contender after that much roster turnover. Seriously I can't get over the widespread sense of certitude that Kyrie is better than Isaiah right now. Talk about hype over facts. Some stats for you. Pts/100 poss Kyrie 35.9 IT4 42.4 Thomas had a better TS% on higher usage. Quite literally more efficient at a higher volume. He crushed Kyrie in advanced metrics.