Do y'all think the weak draft class will impact the hobby this year?

[bamagrad03]

2020 was a perfect storm to boost the hobby and the strong NNA draft class certainly helped.

This year's class seems to lack gravitas, which could lessen the early frenzy that starts the momentum.

What do y'all think?

[Davis]

Yes.

Drain the cesspool.

[KhalDrogo]

Yes. People will spend more money on the last three draft classes. Already happening.

[oldgoldy97]

Good thing we have at least another month of 19-20 products coming out.

[GeechQuest]

I’d expect there to be value in this seasons wax.

I think the more interesting component is that Prizm isn’t coming out until the halfway point of the season.

[LovelyLlamas]

2018: Luka, Young, Shai, Ayton, MPJ, JJJ, Bagley, Sexton

A weak 2020 class means more time for me to focus on this class

[Braswell10]

Nope. People may not buy the 2020 draft class, but they will buy other players. This won’t hurt the hobby at all.

[ThoseBackPages]

#WaxAlwaysWins

[DajuanWagner]

Flippers don't care about a draft class. They only care about collecting dead president's. As long as FOMO is real, wax will always stay strong......

[k13]

No. Players will get hot.
No one cared about the Luka draft till later.

NBA is a joke is its not hard for scrubs to put up decent numbers.

Luka would never be putting up triple doubles in a non-joke environment.

Just look at the nba trends.

[Birdanski]

Luka wouldn't be putting up triple doubles in another era? LOL.

[hwc]

No. Players will get hot.
No one cared about the Luka draft till later.

NBA is a joke is its not hard for scrubs to put up decent numbers.

Luka would never be putting up triple doubles in a non-joke environment.

Just look at the nba trends.

Your hatred for Luka is hilarious. Many people recognized Luka being a generational talent a year before his draft so to say that no one cared of his draft class till the season played out is false.

The playing style for the NBA currently does bode well for players to put up numbers but you have to look at the numbers in context.

[sebreg]

Luka would be great in any era. If you watch old-school ball, sure there were some absolute defensive stalwarts, but even some of the top-echelon teams had tissue soft defense at times (especially transition defense). I think people mistake hard fouls for good defense, and just because more hard fouls were allowed back in the day doesn't mean the defense was necessarily all-around good. Paper tiger 80s Nuggets were consistently putting up ridiculous offensive numbers...

[sebreg]

Nope. People may not buy the 2020 draft class, but they will buy other players. This won’t hurt the hobby at all.

Even if this class ends up with a lack of big time performers, I think so long as big-time early career guys like Trae, Luka, Zion, Ja have big seasons hobby interest will continue at a hot pace.

[Onepocketj]

No. Players will get hot.
No one cared about the Luka draft till later.

NBA is a joke is its not hard for scrubs to put up decent numbers.

Luka would never be putting up triple doubles in a non-joke environment.

Just look at the nba trends.

Lmao. One of the most idiotic things I've seen on this site and that's saying something.

[oldgoldy97]

Don’t forget about Ja and Zion second year rookies, Luka third year rookies and Lebron second year Lakers Prizm rookies.

Rookies galore this year!

[Chris P]

Lmao. One of the most idiotic things I've seen on this site and that's saying something.

I never take his takes seriously in any sport (unless he's different with his hockey takes..i dont follow hockey)

[Chris P]

No. Players will get hot.
No one cared about the Luka draft till later.

NBA is a joke is its not hard for scrubs to put up decent numbers.

Luka would never be putting up triple doubles in a non-joke environment.

Just look at the nba trends.

I also find it funny how much you crap all over the NBA but run around clearing shelves of this "awful brand of product". I get it...profit..but its just funny to me

[k13]

Your hatred for Luka is hilarious. Many people recognized Luka being a generational talent a year before his draft so to say that no one cared of his draft class till the season played out is false.

The playing style for the NBA currently does bode well for players to put up numbers but you have to look at the numbers in context.

Generational talent yet he gets passed by Marvin Bagley/Ayton in the draft.
All those scouts and great minds yet they never saw it.

[LC2nine10]

Generational talent yet he gets passed by Marvin Bagley/Ayton in the draft.
All those scouts and great minds yet they never saw it.

Stupid comment dude.
Scouts are wrong all the time. Kobe was pick 13, guess he wasn't very good.
I've heard tom brady wasn't a first round talent either.


You're just so, so, wrong in just about everything.

[k13]

You guys know in the late 90's, late 2000's the league averaged 95 ppg and now its over 110 ppg.

The FG % and 3FG % are exactly the same so players never got any better or efficient.

Just more shots so more points so more assists so more rebounds.


:doh::doh::doh::doh:


Yet you eat up all these BS.

How do you think Russell Westbrook gets all these triple doubles...
He's garbage.

[Birdanski]

terrible argument. If you are talking about the league as a whole, then yes offensive numbers have gone up. If you are talking about Doncic not putting up triple-double numbers in a different era then you are just wrong. LOL.

[Chris P]

Generational talent yet he gets passed by Marvin Bagley/Ayton in the draft.
All those scouts and great minds yet they never saw it.

And steph got passed over by 5 teams (one team twice)..kobe 12 teams..tom brady last rd pick ..so who cares really where they get drafted

[Chris P]

Stupid comment dude.
Scouts are wrong all the time. Kobe was pick 13, guess he wasn't very good.
I've heard tom brady wasn't a first round talent either.


You're just so, so, wrong in just about everything.

He's a pessmistic hater on everything....he hates trout too surprise surprise

[k13]

terrible argument. If you are talking about the league as a whole, then yes offensive numbers have gone up. If you are talking about Doncic not putting up triple-double numbers in a different era then you are just wrong. LOL.

Why are triple doubles at all time high the last couple years?

The players must be so amazing...

[k13]

A 30 year old bum like Harden can score more points than Jordan in his prime.

That's how bad this league is.

[ferrisbueller]

You guys know in the late 90's, late 2000's the league averaged 95 ppg and now its over 110 ppg.

The FG % and 3FG % are exactly the same so players never got any better or efficient.

Just more shots so more points so more assists so more rebounds.


:doh::doh::doh::doh:


Yet you eat up all these BS.

How do you think Russell Westbrook gets all these triple doubles...
He's garbage.

There's an enormous difference between "It's easier to get triple doubles now because the league has changed" (True!) and "This means that today's superstars like Russell Westbrook are bad" (Transparently false).

[k13]

Luka takes 9 threes a game yet he's 140th in the league in 3pt %

Yes 140th...

That's beyond laughable.

[k13]

Anyway, the point is, any of these average players can make an impact from this supposed bad draft because all they need is minutes and a green light.

[Birdanski]

You right, Luka isnt that good. Couldn't compete in previous eras and certainly wouldn't have put up huge triple double numbers. You win. LOL

Anyone who has watched hoops for the past 40 years can attest that he would certainly be putting up huge numbers in any era.

Sheesh....

[Chris P]

You right, Luka isnt that good. Couldn't compete in previous eras and certainly wouldn't have put up huge triple double numbers. You win. LOL

Anyone who has watched hoops for the past 40 years can attest that he would certainly be putting up huge numbers in any era.

Sheesh....

But but he wasnt draft first so he cant be good!:doh:

[Ericc5Bears]

A 30 year old bum like Harden can score more points than Jordan in his prime.

That's how bad this league is.

People always get this argument wrong and it's really annoying to see. Star players don't score easier nowadays because the defense is worse, they score easier because there's sooooo much more spacing. All you have to do is beat your man off the dribble and you're able to get a full head of steam straight to the rim. It isn't an indictment on modern day defense, it's just so much harder to defend when most lineups have 4 guys that you basically have to faceguard at the 3 point line.

[thenashcollecto]

Bad draft class plus one major injury to a top tier player on the rise such as Luka/Morant/Zion and its going to scare alot of people. Throw in a reemergence of talk that goes more mainstream of fake Luka autos or a couple mid range guys really not improving(think Evan’s/faried/farmer and it’s going to be eye opening to a lot of people in a way that some of us with long memories understand.

[KhalDrogo]

Not sure if you guys looked at the username, but you're arguing with one of the 13s.

[lietuvalabas]

You guys know in the late 90's, late 2000's the league averaged 95 ppg and now its over 110 ppg.

The FG % and 3FG % are exactly the same so players never got any better or efficient.

Just more shots so more points so more assists so more rebounds.


:doh::doh::doh::doh:


Yet you eat up all these BS.

How do you think Russell Westbrook gets all these triple doubles...
He's garbage.

i strongly disagree with your take on Luka, and yeah scouts are wrong all the time.

BUT

to what I bolded, I do agree with alot of this, the NBA is sort of a joke now between little to no defense and chucking 50 3's a game, but i think Luka put in any era would do incredible things.

[sebreg]

Bad draft class plus one major injury to a top tier player on the rise such as Luka/Morant/Zion and its going to scare alot of people. Throw in a reemergence of talk that goes more mainstream of fake Luka autos or a couple mid range guys really not improving(think Evan’s/faried/farmer and it’s going to be eye opening to a lot of people in a way that some of us with long memories understand.

If you collected in 90s, just need 8 words to summarize risk: Larry Johnson, Grant Hill, Tracy McGrady, Penny Hardaway.

The amount of early career players who achieve both full arc legendary career and enduring hobby love is very short-listed. Pouring big money into that stuff is risky, fine if you understand that aspect and willing to assume risk, but I think many underestimate the degree of risk.

[DajuanWagner]

You guys know in the late 90's, late 2000's the league averaged 95 ppg and now its over 110 ppg.

The FG % and 3FG % are exactly the same so players never got any better or efficient.

Just more shots so more points so more assists so more rebounds.


:doh::doh::doh::doh:


Yet you eat up all these BS.

How do you think Russell Westbrook gets all these triple doubles...
He's garbage.



Who do you collect????

[thenashcollecto]

If you collected in 90s, just need 8 words to summarize risk: Larry Johnson, Grant Hill, Tracy McGrady, Penny Hardaway.

The amount of early career players who achieve both full arc legendary career and enduring hobby love is very short-listed. Pouring big money into that stuff is risky, fine if you understand that aspect and willing to assume risk, but I think many underestimate the degree of risk.


100% agree. Too many people haven’t tasted what that level percentage loss feels like. Football guys will start to feel it a bit with burrow but the level of loss people are going to feel in basketball will be uniquely painful. A huge difference is none of the guys I or you mentioned ever hit pricing levels near the same stratosphere of what we are seeing currently.


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[Kobe101]

If you collected in 90s, just need 8 words to summarize risk: Larry Johnson, Grant Hill, Tracy McGrady, Penny Hardaway.

The amount of early career players who achieve both full arc legendary career and enduring hobby love is very short-listed. Pouring big money into that stuff is risky, fine if you understand that aspect and willing to assume risk, but I think many underestimate the degree of risk.

Very true but 3 of those guys were so good that their rare stuff still sells pretty well.

[Birdanski]

And if you are collecting those cards you were probably collecting Jordan, etc. Soooooo, unless you were only buying Larry Johnson rookies you did just fine. LOL. Will be the same with this era.

[ThoseBackPages]

Who do you collect????

sour grapes

[sebreg]

Yeah, all just depends on where you're leveraged. Buy in was much less back then, I just think some people have assumed higher exposure without realizing the actual degree. Not everyone, as I think those who are most skilled will prob navigate any correction and issues pretty well (I doubt I'd be one of them, I'm not a clever shark like some of the others on this board!). Those 90s players imo are just a reminder of risk-potential with early career guys. It can also be tricky to know how collecting tastes will shift, and what becomes prioritized and what loses desirability. Again, those with most skill, experience, knowledge prob take those factors into account and improvise accordingly. And of course some collect to just collect so potential shift in valuations may not be as big of a deal in their eyes. And for some gambling on the young guys is the juice and part of the fun of it all.

[gomiamigo]

2020 was a perfect storm to boost the hobby and the strong NNA draft class certainly helped.

This year's class seems to lack gravitas, which could lessen the early frenzy that starts the momentum.

What do y'all think?

Well, obviously.

[YayNJ]

No. Players will get hot.
No one cared about the Luka draft till later.

NBA is a joke is its not hard for scrubs to put up decent numbers.

Luka would never be putting up triple doubles in a non-joke environment.

Just look at the nba trends.

Imagine my surprise finding you talking utter bull on the basketball threads too :doh:

thought us in the soccer forum were gravely unlucky

[ninjacookies]

https://media3.giphy.com/media/9SJaIzKLznBwDE2GTb/giphy.gif

k1trizzle's growing on me.

[The_Reverend]

2018: Luka, Young, Shai, Ayton, MPJ, JJJ, Bagley, Sexton

A weak 2020 class means more time for me to focus on this class

Totally agree about the focus. 2019-20 wax was so high there was not massive amounts opened. 2017-18 a strong class as well.

[LovelyLlamas]

The way I look at it, to create an historic draft class, you need 2-3 guys to pan out as HOF types. Kobe, Nash, AI. Lebron, Carmelo, Wade and Bosh. Jordan, Hakeem, Charles and Stockton...

2018 has so many good options right now so that’s what draws me to that draft. Even if guys like Bagley and Porter fizzle due to injury, you may have Shai and JJJ emerge to the top. Or maybe Sexton steps it up...even guys like DDV, Graham, Trent Jr, Mitchell Robinson, and the Bridges have high role player upside. Sure a lot can go wrong, but I think this will be the best class since 2003-04.

[Chris P]

Imagine my surprise finding you talking utter bull on the basketball threads too :doh:

thought us in the soccer forum were gravely unlucky

Lol..baseball football too..no one is safe (maybe Wrestling?)

[byronscott4ever]

Flippers don't care about a draft class. They only care about collecting dead president's. As long as FOMO is real, wax will always stay strong......

Just waiting for people peddling blasters wondering why they aren’t selling for some reason this year

[dunkindutchmen]

You guys know in the late 90's, late 2000's the league averaged 95 ppg and now its over 110 ppg.

The FG % and 3FG % are exactly the same so players never got any better or efficient.

Just more shots so more points so more assists so more rebounds.


:doh::doh::doh::doh:


Yet you eat up all these BS.

How do you think Russell Westbrook gets all these triple doubles...
He's garbage.

Well, Westbrook is garbage but most of your post here is completely wrong.

FG% is up about 2% over the last twenty years. Three point percentage goes up every year EVEN as attempts go up. Please don't tell me you are using data from when the line was two feet shorter.

Westbrook and other athletic rebounding guards/wings who have high usage rates and get put in 50 pick and rolls a game are going to have monster stat lines. That's what's different from a historical perspective.

[YeKan]

Huge Luka fan but I agree with the premise that he would not be putting up triples doubles on a consistent basis if he played in the 90's. Not because the defense isn't better, but because simply they wouldn't allow him to a la the Jordan rules.

Also, the way the game was played in the past is not the way the game is played today. It wasn't a pace and space game like today. The pace was considerably slower so he wouldn't get the amount of opportunities that he has now. Also, teams didn't have a plethora of shooters which is how Luka gets most of his assists. Players were bigger and much more physical back then which undoubtedly would affect his rebounding numbers. He would and could score in any era but to say he would be putting up triple doubles in ANY era is a stretch.

[ziggyz129]

So many people who buy wax “need” instant gratification, and that need will be what supports how one or 3 Guys will sell above the price of a box.

In 2013, it happened with the NFL. Two qbs no one cared about coming into the draft carried the hobby: Geno smith and ej manual. The whole season those autos were built up as worth more than a box. While they became the value of paper stock like 2 weeks into the following season, those who opened up nfl boxes in 2013 felt like there was a chance they’d get their money back, whether it was with topps chrome or natural treasures.

Because no matter what there will be rookie of the year (and rookie of the month selections), it won’t take to long for people to find their ej and Geno to justify why they should go in, even if one season later we forget about them.

[thenashcollecto]

The way I look at it, to create an historic draft class, you need 2-3 guys to pan out as HOF types. Kobe, Nash, AI. Lebron, Carmelo, Wade and Bosh. Jordan, Hakeem, Charles and Stockton...

2018 has so many good options right now so that’s what draws me to that draft. Even if guys like Bagley and Porter fizzle due to injury, you may have Shai and JJJ emerge to the top. Or maybe Sexton steps it up...even guys like DDV, Graham, Trent Jr, Mitchell Robinson, and the Bridges have high role player upside. Sure a lot can go wrong, but I think this will be the best class since 2003-04.


Don’t forget ray allen in 1996.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Giantrobot]

We don’t know this class is weak yet. Just because it wasn’t hyped up doesn’t mean there won’t be some star players emerging from it.

[Ferg1945]

People will spend more money on the last three draft classes. Already happening.

:)!

Same thing happened in 2019 with baseball. People threw more money at Acuna, Soto, Torres etc...waiting for 2019 rookie class to take shape.

[blackbears86]

A 30 year old bum like Harden can score more points than Jordan in his prime.

That's how bad this league is.



I actually agree with you on this one.



Harden chucking three's all game and playing no defense is pretty pathetic. He can't hold a candle to Jordan.


But the game has also changed. It's just not like it was in the 80's-90's.

[Birdanski]

Did anyone think harden was as good as MJ? LOL

[blackbears86]

[QUOTE=Birdanski;16671005]Did anyone think harden was as good as MJ? LOL[/QUOT



NO. My personal opinion. And comparing his scoring average to Jordan, which is a reflection of today's game.

[sebreg]

If you watch 80s games, the players were notably leaner than today's players (and not as "jacked"). Pace of play was quite high, the real slow-up was mid-90s to 2015, only in last 5 years has team ppg returned to pre-mid 90s levels. If you adjust for pace of play, Kobe's 35ppg season is one of the most impressive scoring seasons of all time.

[ThoseBackPages]

We don’t know this class is weak yet. Just because it wasn’t hyped up doesn’t mean there won’t be some star players emerging from it.

that is why you put in your Wax Cellar

#WaxAlwaysWins

when was the last time a Prizm release was totally devoid of a decent RC? 2014? Embiid

[Asian62150]

that is why you put in your Wax Cellar

#WaxAlwaysWins

when was the last time a Prizm release was totally devoid of a decent RC? 2014? Embiid

True. Even that year had so much hype upon release. Wiggins or Jabari? Jabari or Wiggins?

And Embiid has MVP caliber talent if he can stay on the court.

[kevinandji]

Defenses are soft in many leagues so performance and scoring is up.

In the NBA take any modern player and see what they put up on Laimbeer and Rodman’s Bad Boy Pistons???

Take Mahomes and Brady and let loose Buddy Ryan when a QB could be smacked around like a rag doll...today you cannot breathe on the QB...

All these new players are super talented but they also get to play knowing they are super protected and that keeps the yips and injuries at a minimum and the huge scoring days at a max...

[Cubs_rock21]

invest in the last years of prizm and hold

[mvp]

I think hobby prices will come down this year, but retail still won’t stay on the shelves for longer than a few hours.

Personally I hope the fervour dies down so I can feel like I’m collecting and not competing.

[drobfan8]

I can't see how there won't be some studs in every draft from here on out.

When was the last draft that produced 0 All Stars or just nobody that got some hype?

[blackbears86]

that is why you put in your Wax Cellar

#WaxAlwaysWins

when was the last time a Prizm release was totally devoid of a decent RC? 2014? Embiid



100% agree, and I can't say this enough.

If you bought a case of prizm every year since it came out in 2012, you would be a very happy/rich man.

[k13]

In Hobby just having Lebron # cards is enough to sell high.

[bustsomewax]

I'm fine with people treating this years draft class like an after thought.

Find me a draft class in the last decade that didn't have someone worth chasing down the line. Or, in hobby terms, find me product from last decade that you can buy under MSRP.

Once these guys start playing, someone will become the next latest/greatest...

[istheskyblew]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201123/6114bcde65ee1d2f72af851a9cc96201.jpg

...hoping this will get my daughter a used Kia when she can drive in 10 years


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jcardstore]

I don't think I've ever seen k13 post anything positive about any player. Must suck to hate every single player in the NBA

[hwc]

that is why you put in your Wax Cellar

#WaxAlwaysWins

when was the last time a Prizm release was totally devoid of a decent RC? 2014? Embiid

Going into 2014, the hype was real for the top 3 selected (Wiggins, Jabari, Embiid).

The last time there wasn't a good rookie class was 2013. No true #1 overall pick. And it took 3-4 years before Giannis reached to where he is now. Going into that draft was like this years draft. Weak overall. Even if there is a player that emerges to become a top 10 player, it doesn't make this draft class strong.

[hwc]

I can't see how there won't be some studs in every draft from here on out.

When was the last draft that produced 0 All Stars or just nobody that got some hype?

The question isn't really when the last draft produced 0 All-Stars. A lot of us are calling this a weak draft because there doesn't seem to be enough difference makers in this draft. Giannis doesn't make 2013 a strong draft class. 2013 is a weak draft class that happened to produce a top 10 player. This years draft class may also produce a top 10 player but it doesn't make this years draft class strong.

[dunkindutchmen]

Defenses are soft in many leagues so performance and scoring is up.

In the NBA take any modern player and see what they put up on Laimbeer and Rodman’s Bad Boy Pistons???

Take Mahomes and Brady and let loose Buddy Ryan when a QB could be smacked around like a rag doll...today you cannot breathe on the QB...

All these new players are super talented but they also get to play knowing they are super protected and that keeps the yips and injuries at a minimum and the huge scoring days at a max...

NBA defense is as advanced and difficult as it has ever been. The defense doesn't always look great because players are more skilled and the way the perimeter is officiated, ie the no-contact rules. Free throw numbers are inflated because part of the skill evolution has involved drawing contact to "sell" calls.

Previous eras had more physicality, less manipulation by officials, but also less skilled players going up against simpler defenses.

[thenashcollecto]

NBA defense is as advanced and difficult as it has ever been. The defense doesn't always look great because players are more skilled and the way the perimeter is officiated, ie the no-contact rules. Free throw numbers are inflated because part of the skill evolution has involved drawing contact to "sell" calls.

Previous eras had more physicality, less manipulation by officials, but also less skilled players going up against simpler defenses.


They don’t need to sell contact anymore though. This is the softest the league has ever been. That and “super teams” are sadly two of the worst elements of today’s game. IMO


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[karkinos]

100% agree, and I can't say this enough.

If you bought a case of prizm every year since it came out in 2012, you would be a very happy/rich man.

facts

[ThoseBackPages]

Going into 2014, the hype was real for the top 3 selected (Wiggins, Jabari, Embiid).

The last time there wasn't a good rookie class was 2013. No true #1 overall pick. And it took 3-4 years before Giannis reached to where he is now. Going into that draft was like this years draft. Weak overall. Even if there is a player that emerges to become a top 10 player, it doesn't make this draft class strong.

Sure, but 2014 Prizm Wax does well now (which was my point)

If you (as a whole, not you specifically) can get 2020 Prizm wax at what you deem a "good price", buy it and put it away